Did they produce any dominant pieds? :hap:

I was talking with a well known show breeder and judge last night. He said when he first started breeding recessives, he would scan other peoples flights and aviaries looking for birds with the tiny spot knowing that they carried recessive pied.

I have access issues today...blocked IP address....so I am flitting in and out under a proxy server and cannot upload my new photos. :budgiedance:

 

 

 

another quote about tiny spot belonging to split recessive normals

 

The second Pied in the variety, is the Danish and Dutch Recessive Pied, once know as the Harlequin, both in the USA and Europe. This variety has 75% of one colour e.g.,., yellow or white, throughout the bird; 20% being green or blue, with the remaining 5% black markings on the wing and head; hence the name Harlequin. This variety is recessive, therefore, birds bred can be split. Because this bird is recessive, it may appear as a normal. The distinguishing mark is a clear area at the back of the head, usually a quarter of an inch in radius. This bird, being paired back to a visual Recessive Pied, will produce Pieds in both male and female.

Edited January 1, 200817 yr by KAZ

Oh, Kaz, that's no good. Hmm, I can't wait to have my own aviary oneday. I really would like some pieds

Did they produce any dominant pieds? :budgiedance:

 

Nope just recessive chicks

 

A breeder I got birds from a while ago explained it to me, showed me her birds and years of records- thats when I brought it up on the forum and got bagged, but a lot of breeders seem to be using it to identify splits and successfully breed pieds from it.

It seems to me that breeders who breed a lot of birds, and that includes recessives, and show breeders all know this to be a fact. So, its time to live and learn from those more experienced than others. :budgiedance:

What seems to stick in most peoples minds is that the head spot belongs to dominant pieds. The fact is the small spot is part of a recessive split ID. Also the spangle often has a head spot on the back of its head and that is due to its dominant pied inheritance going way back into the first spangles bred using dominant pieds to acchieve spangles .

Edited January 1, 200817 yr by KAZ

(Laughing out loud)- I have a little one from a spangle cock / split Rec pied hen pairing, he has the spot....now from which one?? I think its just a faint spangle dot!!

LOL- I have a little one from a spangle cock / split Rec pied hen pairing, he has the spot....now from which one?? I think its just a faint spangle dot!!

The spangle spot is larger like the dominant pied patch :budgiedance:

Did they produce any dominant pieds? :budgiedance:

 

Nope just recessive chicks

 

A breeder I got birds from a while ago explained it to me, showed me her birds and years of records- thats when I brought it up on the forum and got bagged, but a lot of breeders seem to be using it to identify splits and successfully breed pieds from it.

 

That is cool - I think people who don't believe just want to know those who have done it and proved it...seeing is believing (as it has been said)...but then Polar Express the movie proves that theory to be wrong too (Laughing out loud) . Very neat!

You know, all this talk of head spots made me rethink one of my old breeding paairs - Ozzy and Angel. He was a grey-green spangle (who unfortuantely got out and flew away) and she was an Albino. they produced a a Yellow Faced Type II mauve with normal wings, a grey green spangle, and a recessive pied with very few markings. I always wondered about the last one, but this topic has made me re-evaluate.

 

I went back and looked at some older pics of Ozzy. The photo is from when he was vey young.

 

 

If you look, you can see a small spot on the back of his head. Obviously based on this topic, he is split to recessive.

 

So Dad is split to receissive, that explains hwo he can have a daughter that looks like this

 

 

okay, this genetics thing does make sense after a while.

Did they produce any dominant pieds?

 

Nope just recessive chicks

 

A breeder I got birds from a while ago explained it to me, showed me her birds and years of records- thats when I brought it up on the forum and got bagged, but a lot of breeders seem to be using it to identify splits and successfully breed pieds from it.

 

That is cool - I think people who don\'t believe just want to know those who have done it and proved it...seeing is believing

Kids dont see the real Santa but believe in him.

The fact is, on this forum we have a great myriad of our own experts who are happy to share thier great knowledge. Some knowledge does NOT get shared due to scepticism and how things are received.

Yes kids see things so different then adults and as we get older we get more skeptical.

There is great knowledge here and I understand what you are saying

I have put the topic about the spot up for discussion on a show breeding site.

 

In a lot of my normal to recessive pied pairings, the normal babies in the nest have a minute spot on the back of their heads maybe involving up to 3 pin feathers. This has always shown to me a normal that was split recessive. Even in the aviary a normal with that same very tiny spot can be quickly identified as carrying recessive pied, and confirmed by checking records.

I see this as a normal thing in recessive pied breeding. I have told some others elsewhere about the spot and apart from one of our member also trying to say the same thing, the others are not convinced. Most believe the only spot on the back of a budgies head means dominant pied, which I know to be incorrect. The spot is entirely a different size and shape. And then there are the spangle spots also.

Any thoughts to share ?

 

 

Karen

 

1ST COMMENT FROM A VERY EXPERIENCED SHOW BREEDER AND SHOW WINNER OF RECESSIVE PIEDS

 

QUOTE.........You are right Kaza, it does mean that they are spit for recessive UNQUOTE

 

we wait for further comments from show breeders

Edited January 2, 200817 yr by KAZ

Hmm, yes some people can be very stubborn in their ways even when there is lots of evidence to support your theory, they turn blind eye to it. I like it here as there are many open minded people.

 

None of my spangles have the spot. Out of my 13 birds 10 are spangles and none have the spot, unfortunately, because I quite like the spot.

 

 

Im with macka , if you want to show then you have to pluck the spot if its small enough and put it into the normal class .

Ive seen a bird at a show with maybe one feather as the spot and the owner put it in the pied class , the judge put it in the last position and commented should have plucked the feather out .

If there are two many feathers than keep it as a breeder only.

YEP.....

this guy is an adult

 

 

and if I plucked out his feathers to show him he would be bald

 

Kaz i spoke to a few shower Breeders about that and funny you say pluck ing it ...

 

As some show breeders plucker those little ones out and show as a normal

 

I asked them isn't that cheating ... Should have seen the look on their faces

Is this split then?

and his dad has a bigger on though it takes most of his head

Is this split then?

and his dad has a bigger on though it takes most of his head

Photo of Dad, Jodie ???

Is this split then?

and his dad has a bigger on though it takes most of his head

Photo of Dad, Jodie ???

No, I'll try get one tommorow for you okay he doesnt live with me as he's my friends budgie.

A dominant pied bird is easy to work out. The spot on a dominant pied is much larger as well. The point to this topic was showing that the tiny spot ( as compared to the larger dominant pied spot ) is USUALLY a part of what shows us a bird is split recessive.

This was put here as a topic, because many people were getting confused and saying, basically, that any spot on the back of a normal looking budgie meant is was a dominant pied, regardless of the size of the spot. However, it is a dominant pied only if the spot is the larger spot normally associated with a dominant pied. The tiny spots seem to indicate split to recessive. This is only to show the split to recessive spot, is a tiny spot in comparison.

 

Though per Neville, large or small it is split to recessive a large spot doesn't denote a dominant pied if it looks like a normal. Any thoughts....

A dominant pied bird is easy to work out. The spot on a dominant pied is much larger as well. The point to this topic was showing that the tiny spot ( as compared to the larger dominant pied spot ) is USUALLY a part of what shows us a bird is split recessive.

This was put here as a topic, because many people were getting confused and saying, basically, that any spot on the back of a normal looking budgie meant is was a dominant pied, regardless of the size of the spot. However, it is a dominant pied only if the spot is the larger spot normally associated with a dominant pied. The tiny spots seem to indicate split to recessive. This is only to show the split to recessive spot, is a tiny spot in comparison. :rofl:

 

Though per Neville, large or small it is split to recessive a large spot doesn't denote a dominant pied if it looks like a normal. Any thoughts....

I would have to say I agree. A dominant pied should have all dominant pied features to be classed as a dominant pied. A head spot on an otherwise NORMAL looking budgie would not, in my opinion make that normal looking bird a dominant pied.

Kaz,If you were very carefull & 0nly removed the yellow feathers.I don`tthink it

would show up a lot,do it a day or 2 before the show.

 

Thanks macka!

 

As I judge I will now know what taht little bald patch on the back of some budgies heads might be!!!

Its not confuseing,The recessive has spot with a few feathers,maybe 6 feathers.

 

A dominant pie has a patch on the back of the head.

 

A split recessive,if you remove the spot you can show as a normal.

You could`nt do that with a dominant. :party0011:

 

:hooray: thats so cheeky :hooray: so many naughty tricks out their just to win that :party0011:

who would actually do that remove feathers from a split rececive thats like only cheatting your self macca thats so sneaky java script:add_smilie("","smid_9")

Edited July 19, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

I have been wondering about this. Piccolo has a big white spot on the back of his head. But he is opaline. I thought opaline was sex-linked recessive, therefore Piccolo being a male must have received opaline from both sides. If the big spot is for dominant pied then wouldn't he be pied instead of opaline? Or can opalines get the big spot too? It's not small and a few feathers like the ones I've seen on spangles and normals before... it's a whole round patch.

 

This photo shows it best out of the ones I've already got, but it is side on so sorry it's not perfect.

Edited July 20, 200915 yr by krosp

I have been wondering about this. Piccolo has a big white spot on the back of his head. But he is opaline. I thought opaline was sex-linked recessive, therefore Piccolo being a male must have received opaline from both sides. If the big spot is for dominant pied then wouldn't he be pied instead of opaline? Or can opalines get the big spot too? It's not small and a few feathers like the ones I've seen on spangles and normals before... it's a whole round patch.

 

This photo shows it best out of the ones I've already got, but it is side on so sorry it's not perfect.

 

as you have cliped his wings i am unable to tell how ever do you know what colour his flights were and the tail feather is it black white or black and a white one also ?????