Off and on, on this forum, there has been discussion about the marking that is a spot on the back of a budgies head. More often than not, the automatic conclusion drawn is that the bird is a dominant pied, even if it looks as a normal would look except for the spot. A couple of us, on here, The Pie and myself and maybe others have said about "split to" recessive also having a spot on the back of their head. The difference seems to be the size of the spot. My split to recessives have a tiny spot where a dominant pied would have a much larger spot.

I have had many chicks in nests that are to a recessive pied parent and a normal or such other parents. In these nests often the normals have a tiny spot on the back of their heads. I have a nest at the moment where the father is recessive pied and the mother is a cinnamon cobalt. At least two chicks in the nest so far have the "spot".

So here's some photos showing the "split to" recessive spot we often talk about.

Eldest chick with spot

 

Next chick developing its spot

 

 

 

another youngster with the SPOT also split to recessive

 

and an adult...split to recessive ( also showing his spot )

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by KAZ

Can sure make it confusing for us dominant pied lovers....(Laughing out loud)

Actually thank you Kaz for those pics the babies are sweet

Can sure make it confusing for us dominant pied lovers....LOL

Actually thank you Kaz for those pics the babies are sweet

The dominant pied spot is a good bit bigger Elly...like your Merlins. Somewhere in between those size spots is the spot some spangles have :rip:

Its not confuseing,The recessive has spot with a few feathers,maybe 6 feathers.

 

A dominant pie has a patch on the back of the head.

 

A split recessive,if you remove the spot you can show as a normal.

You could`nt do that with a dominant.

Gotcha but that last babies spot is pretty good size at least to me, yes the first one totally I wouldn't get confused.

YEP.....

this guy is an adult

 

 

and if I plucked out his feathers to show him he would be bald

Kaz,If you were very carefull & 0nly removed the yellow feathers.I don`tthink it

would show up a lot,do it a day or 2 before the show.

Kaz,If you were very carefull & 0nly removed the yellow feathers.I don`tthink it

would show up a lot,do it a day or 2 before the show. :ausb:

 

I see what you mean and I might give it a try Macka.....later though. He is currently in a breeder cabinet with a recessive pied hen.

so my question is in a show you would show them as a normal because that is what they are but if the spot was there it would be considered a fault?

so my question is in a show you would show them as a normal because that is what they are but if the spot was there it would be considered a fault?

EGGS-ACKLY

I am learning

In a nest of a pair of show type budgies I have more babies with the recessive pied spot, The mother is a grey green normal ( split to recessive ) and the father is a green normal.

A bird with the dominant pied spot can still be split to recessive pied..

A bird with the dominant pied spot can still be split to recessive pied..

 

Yep they can- they dont 'need' the spot to be split, it just makes it easier for us breeders!! Any birds can be split for Recessive pied no matter what the mutation

Sorry about that I ment to say A bird that is a dom pied can still be split to recessive.

 

Thats right any bird can be split..

 

But do we not call them dom just because of the recessive spot. I think the bird that looks like the dom pied bird should be called dom, but the bird that is a normal with the little head spot makes it eaiser for us to call them split, right?

A dominant pied bird is easy to work out. The spot on a dominant pied is much larger as well. The point to this topic was showing that the tiny spot ( as compared to the larger dominant pied spot ) is USUALLY a part of what shows us a bird is split recessive.

This was put here as a topic, because many people were getting confused and saying, basically, that any spot on the back of a normal looking budgie meant is was a dominant pied, regardless of the size of the spot. However, it is a dominant pied only if the spot is the larger spot normally associated with a dominant pied. The tiny spots seem to indicate split to recessive. This is only to show the split to recessive spot, is a tiny spot in comparison. :bluebudgie:

Edited August 24, 200717 yr by **KAZ**

how cool is that! great examples and pics. a great refrence :bluebudgie:

Again on the topic of the recessive pied spot for any newcomers that would like to read up on it.

 

I just checked the nest of a recessive pied and a normal pairing to find all three chicks are "normals" with the tiny spot on the back of their heads. :hap:

Good thinking to bring this back up KAZ :hap: i know a few people i've mentioned it to woudlnt beleive me... so great evidence of the facts here :rip:

Good thinking to bring this back up KAZ :hap: i know a few people i've mentioned it to woudlnt beleive me... so great evidence of the facts here

I will take some photos tomorrow of the nest of split to recessive babies and also others in the aviary that are split to recessive also with "the spot" :rip:

Now the best way to test your theory would be to take your normal bird with the little spot on the back of the head, which is said to be split to recessive pied, and breed it to a recessive pied bird. If any of the babies are recessive pied then that means that the normal with the smal spot on the back of its head is a CONFIRMED split to recessive pied and then you can confidently say that the small spot on the back of the birds head means it is split to recessive pied.

There you go Kaz, put a split-to with a full rec.pied andconfirm it for us, that would be awesome and very helpful, for those who want to choose to bring rec. pied into their flock. :hap:

The ONLY time I get chicks with a tiny spot on the back of their heads is when I have bred recessive to normals. Commonly known in show breeding circles also, however a normal with a spot is a fault on the showbench. :hap:

Most of my split to recessives with spots, were pet types I did not keep as my forward planning is primarily breeding for show now. If pet size I dont keep it. The ones of show parents I have kept arent old enough yet ( although one young hen thinks she is going by the flirting throughout the aviary ). You will have to wait for the proof you need if I am to breed to prove it. I, on the other hand need no proof. It is what it is and that has proven itself so many times in my breeding of recessive to normals.

According to a breeder of Danish pieds ( aka recessive pieds ) Pied x split for pieds produces half pied and half split for pied, so it still would not prove anything.

Edited December 31, 200717 yr by KAZ

Oh, I believe you. What I was describing is called a test cross and proves that the parent in question is carrying the desired gene. Any pieds that show up in the offspring will prove that the parent is indeed split to recessive. Look up "test cross" :hap:

In some cases those Normal/Recessive Pieds "splits for convenience" show a small clear spot on the back of the head.

 

taken from this article

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/specialist/pieds/recpied.html

I have paired 2 birds with these spots and have had Rec pieds in the nest.