The problem is that not everyone is going to agree that there is only one way to label budgies. To an extent, it's still a matter of opinion as well as a matter of where you're from and what you're used to. As much as it makes my eye twitch, I've stopped correcting people who say "parakeets" instead of "budgies." It goes all through me, but it's a lost cause. I often have to say it myself to make others understand and it annoys me to no end.

 

As far as accuracy, even the terms "pet" and "show" can be confusing. Not all english budgies are show birds in the sense that they are actually involved in exhibition. We can get past this by saying english budgie, but budgies aren't native to england.

 

I know this is just going to go round and round but I'm just saying that not everyone agrees on what is or isn't correct terminology. Because of that, it's hard to say "okay guys, we're all going to do things THIS way and anything else is wrong!" To you it might be wrong, but others may disagree.

Just to clarify, are we debating on which term is technically correct? Because I'm pretty certain we all agree as far as that goes.

 

You actually said we agree and now you say we dont.

 

The problem is that not everyone is going to agree that there is only one way to label budgies. To an extent, it's still a matter of opinion as well as a matter of where you're from and what you're used to. As much as it makes my eye twitch, I've stopped correcting people who say "parakeets" instead of "budgies." It goes all through me, but it's a lost cause. I often have to say it myself to make others understand and it annoys me to no end.

Then why is an Australian not allowed to be just as annoyed by the term American budgie ?

As far as accuracy, even the terms "pet" and "show" can be confusing. Not all english budgies are show birds in the sense that they are actually involved in exhibition. We can get past this by saying english budgie, but budgies aren't native to england.

Even show breeder who attribute changes to budgerigars to the english still refer to them as English style if at all referring to the english version. Mostly they are known as SHOW BUDGIES everywhere. If you say to leave alone terminology that people are comfortable with, why only where the term American must it be left alone.

I know this is just going to go round and round but I'm just saying that not everyone agrees on what is or isn't correct terminology. Because of that, it's hard to say "okay guys, we're all going to do things THIS way and anything else is wrong!" To you it might be wrong, but others may disagree.

So, lets get some facts to back up this debate. Where is the proof there is an American budgie ?

Edited January 30, 200718 yr by Bubbles

I thought we agreed (as in those of us in this debate, on this forum) and I was later corrected. I think you're the one who corrected me, actually.

 

Annnd, I never said Australians aren't allowed to be annoyed! We can be annoyed till our faces turn blue but it doesn't mean we can tell everyone else to change their opinions and agree on one view. We can make our points and defend our positions but if the purpose of this debate is to attempt to get everyone to do things the same exact way I don't think it's going to work...

I thought we agreed (as in those of us in this debate, on this forum) and I was later corrected. I think you're the one who corrected me, actually.

 

Annnd, I never said Australians aren't allowed to be annoyed! We can be annoyed till our faces turn blue but it doesn't mean we can tell everyone else to change their opinions and agree on one view. We can make our points and defend our positions but if the purpose of this debate is to attempt to get everyone to do things the same exact way I don't think it's going to work...

You seem to have misunderstood. Noone is saying we can tell everyone else to change their opinions exactly. We are saying that some of us will inform in a nice way, that the term American budgie does not apply to a pet budgie. Most people take new knowledge in a good way. Most people listen and make up their own minds.

if the purpose of this debate is to attempt to get everyone to do things the same exact way I don't think it's going to work...

this debate is really about an awareness that the term American budgie has no actual foundation in fact, in comparison with sharing of knowledge about mutations with each other that IS based on facts we all know.

That is understandable. I just think that if someone chooses to use the term American instead of pet then they should be able to do so as well. Because it is accepted and used in budgie-related literature, I don't think we can exactly say it's completely wrong. I don't feel the term at all implies that budgies are from America. It seems to me that it has come about purely because budgies in America are far more likely to be the pet type. I think you'll find that even literature which uses "American" to describe budgies will also clarify that budgies are native to Australia. It's just a label such as English.

 

Parrot terms in general can be frustratingly misleading. Maroon bellied conures and green cheeked conures both have maroon on their bellies, for instance. Yellow-sided conures are actually green cheeked conures. A Catalina macaw is, in reality, a hybrid rather than a species or subspecies. Patagonian conures are now said to be members of the Amazon family. Not all parakeets have long tails. In fact, green cheeked conures are parakeets as far as that goes... and this is making my head hurt so I'll stop with the examples.

I just have to say something. At the start of my original post, I stated Izzy is a PET bird and how would he do in a show. THis was percieved wrongly and poeple thought I meant how would he do in a show bird show.

I had already stated that he was a PET, yet people misunderstood that to believe that I meant a show bird. Thus I called him and American bird to clarify that he was not a show bird/ english budgie.

 

Now as someone who does not live in either Australia, America and England. Over here we use all 4 terms. American is not used that much, but it is used, as I have read it in many budgie books including Australian ones.

I know how the Australians feel when some of their stuff is renamed, just like we kiwis often feel, when media for some reason likes to call Pharlap and Neil Finn, amoung other things, Australian and the English do the Haka. :fear (Laughing out loud)

 

But anyway. All the terms are correct.

as I have read it in many budgie books including Australian ones

now i have never seen the pet bird descibed this way in print

 

All the terms are correct

 

i just cant see how thats right. english budgies yea i can see why although i hate it, it should be show, but american budgie when if you think about it is a pet bird the same as anyware in the world no different, so why american why not russian,chinese,french

 

american is not used in europe cant comment really on any were else but surly if it is the right term to use it should be used every were if not shouldnt we attempt to point this out to stop people getting confused

I just have to say something. At the start of my original post, I stated Izzy is a PET bird and how would he do in a show. THis was percieved wrongly and poeple thought I meant how would he do in a show bird show.

I had already stated that he was a PET, yet people misunderstood that to believe that I meant a show bird. Thus I called him and American bird to clarify that he was not a show bird/ english budgie.

 

Now as someone who does not live in either Australia, America and England. Over here we use all 4 terms. American is not used that much, but it is used, as I have read it in many budgie books including Australian ones.

I know how the Australians feel when some of their stuff is renamed, just like we kiwis often feel, when media for some reason likes to call Pharlap and Neil Finn, amoung other things, Australian and the English do the Haka. lol

 

But anyway. All the terms are correct.

I cannot see how the term American budgie would be used in New Zealand. Australia is closer to New Zealand and the "Australian Budgie" . So who uses the term in New Zealand ? Just curious. Also, if you understand how us Australians feel about "renamed stuff" why are you saying the term is "correct" without any proof offered ?

Edited January 30, 200718 yr by Bubbles

Wow.

 

I think if someone says that the term is used in New Zealand and they *live* in New Zealand that we pretty much have to take their word for it until proven otherwise.

 

Google "American Budgie" and you'll see it all over the place. You'll also see lots of explaining that budgies are native to Australia.

 

You guys may not like it, but it's a term *some* people use and are comfortable with. You can't change that! You may try to correct them but if they don't feel it's wrong to begin with you're just going to run into this same exact issue.

 

Honestly, we could be debating about far more important things and by this point someone would have already told me to leave it alone, closed the topic, and then told everyone to agree to disagree. I am very amused.

The point is that people use it and it's accepted. There really is no basis for calling an English budgie a show budgie when it's a bird not even used in shows either. It's a preference.

 

This is all about preferences. To you, the term is wrong. Others don't think so. What you see as "educating" could easily be taken as forcing YOUR opinion onto someone who doesn't share it. I've been accused of doing this very thing far too often so I can say from experience, that people don't enjoy it.

 

Just one question. What are you going to do when you "correct" someone and they reply with "I think the term is fine and it's what I'm used to. I'm going to use it, but thank you anyway?" (Or obviously, something along those lines.)

 

Do you then go on to educate them saying they're wrong or do you let it go?

 

What about the fact that it has the potential to completely throw a post off topic?

Woah....

 

Having been absent for 36 odd hours I just waded through 3+ pages of argument. What a load of tripe. I used to belong to an Australian BBS forum called R55 controv (pre WWW days) and the whole idea of that was to take an opposing side and argue it, whether you actually believed the side you took or not! This thread reminds me so much of that forum.

 

I believe what should be being discussed in here is not 'What you call the birds and why?" but what official line should this forum take for conformity... not so much in individual posts, but in their descriptions of the birds and in the FAQ's etc. That way new users are much less likely to be confused when confronted by the various terms.

 

What I personally believe is not important here. But, if I was a member of the moderating team, who really should be discussing this in a more 'moderate' way, is what Daz put forth in one of his posts. That is:

 

Wild is the bird in the bush,

Bush is the bird in the cage.

Pet is the bird on the fingur

Show is the bird on the bench.....

 

I would imagine that, despite whatever you personally call your birds, everyone would understand the above descriptions.

 

Does this not make sense??

 

I think the moderators are letting the forum done in not coming to a decision on conformity in their posts and all FAQ's by not standardising the terms that should be used here.

 

Feathers.

Edited January 30, 200718 yr by feathers

You can't force people to conform to one view. It would be unfair to say "On this board you MUST refer to budgies in THIS way." Personally, I wouldn't use the terms Daz put forth (though have NO problem with him or others using them). But I don't find them to be anymore accurate than the ones already in use.

Before I reply I'll just say I meant to chop that list to 3 terms, perhaps:

 

Bush

Pet &

Show

 

 

 

Terri, I am not saying that every member should use those terms, but it would make sense that wherever possible in official board posts such as the FAQ's, that the terms be standardised. I am not saying that you correct any post that uses a different term.

 

What is hard about that?

Edited January 30, 200718 yr by feathers

That isn't a bad idea, if that's what the mods would like to do. I was more against correcting people in each and every post.

Yay!

 

It makes sense really, mods?

What a load of tripe.

tripe to you certainly isnt to bubbles who feels strongly about this subject so i dont think calling this subject so is right

 

 

 

but it would make sense that wherever possible in official board posts such as the FAQ's, that the terms be standardised

sounds fine to me

 

I was more against correcting people in each and every post.

not so sure how do you educate if you cant point out

Seeing as it's something that people have differing opinions on, I don't think there should be a huge emphasis on "educating" people to conform to one way. You yourself said that you don't like calling budgies "english" and that's just one example of why it would be hard to use only one set of terms when correcting people.

 

But if the board wants to adopt a set of terms to use frequently (without actively criticizing what other people prefer to say) I don't see what the harm is.

(without actively criticizing what other people prefer to say

 

i dont think people have been criticizing

I have read through this post and I think I have totally lost the point of what we are really talking about personally.

 

Here are some sites that I have read through (I AM NOT PROMOTING THEM)

 

http://www.budgies.org/info/faq.html#english

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cl...&articleid=2269

http://www.petplace.com/birds/choosing-a-b...keet/page1.aspx

 

Reading through these article and many more in the America yes we use the words English is show and American is pet. When I came to this board a little over a year ago that is how I learned it from the people on this board.

 

We say mom you say mum, you use words such as bloke and such? AU, NZ, England words and phrases are different then American YES. Should we correct it and say we don't use mum we use mom? Absolutely not.

 

Anyways....I am sure my post will get ripped who knows.

 

I know Merlin as an English (and he is MY pet not show) I love him.

I know Pretty is my American (or MY PET and yes pet) I love him.

 

Karen you are right about American budgie. Here they DO not advertise American budgies at different pet stores around here but they will say English budgies for sale and we know they are not the standard pet budgie or they just say budgie or parakeets for sale.

 

Another debate yes budgies are 1 form of parakeets but you must remember here in the US they do standardize them as parakeets. Even in written books.

I'm sure you'll work it out in terms of the forum. I have no problem referring to budgies as pet and show, since there are people with strong feelings in that direction. However, when someone uses the terms American budgies or English budgies -- maybe instead of saying " '........' is correct and '.........' is wrong/incorrect"

 

" '>>>>' these are the terms or terminology that we prefer." & if you choose to include some explanation as to why it would probably be well received overall.

 

Here we have Parakeet food, Parakeet cages, Parakeet toys -- it will say "Parakeet" on the packaging of most (if not all) of these products offered for sale.

I said all terms are correct, because all people use them. What makes Show and Pet more correct and more right that American and English? They (pet/show/american/english) are all correct because many different people use them in many different shows around the world. I personally don't like to use American, but I do like to use English, however as I said above I had to use American to clarify people's misconceptions when I used the term "pet", which I originally used. No names are really right or wrong. If you percieve some as wrong, what is there to state that the names you use are so very right?

The English were the first to think of having the budgie as a pet and when they started showing their birds they breed a range and type of bird that was and is very different to the wild untouched budgie of australia. These english show birds can't really be called bush budgies any more, because the are so different, thus a new name is needed for them and thus they were called English. These then had to be differentiated from the other country who were a major facor in the breeding of budgies, America, who were breeding their birds in a slightly different way, smaller than the english show bird, but still quite different from the original bush budgie of the Australian outback.

 

The word budgerigar as most people know is aboriginal, this alone is enough to say that they are australian. By calling them English or American budgies, you are using the words English and American as adjectives or describing words. This means that you are describing the already australian word "budgie" as an English or American type.

The fact that when people hear the word Budgie or budgerigar, they think of little australian grass parakeet, adding English as an adjective means the little Australian grass parakeet of the English variety and standard. This goes the same for American.

 

The terms pet and show and English and American are all very right as they are all adjectives used to clarify what budgie you have. You can say you have a pet budgie, but that can be a show budgie and nobody would know. You can have and english budgie, but is he a pet or a show budgie?

 

And yes I have heard of German budgies.

I have known about these names since I first got into budgies, when I was 8.

I can't believe this is still ongoing. Last night we came to some kind of consensus and agreed to leave the terms that this board will use to the mods.

 

Everyone will still refer to their own birds as they do. There is no problem with that. I have many US friends and when I talk about my budgies I automatically say they probably know them as parakeets.

 

Nobody is going to tell you that you can't say that, but if a new user was confused by the terms and said "what is that sort, I have never heard of a (insert whatever name you like) budgie, it could be explained in terms she or he understands.

 

A lot of posters seem to be taking this personally. As I have said previously, the terms I believe should be used is irrelevant.

 

It is simply a matter of using one term for each type on official posts of this board. The FAQ's are the first thing most new users find, and if they are like me, the read through every single one of them. It is just a matter of having a FAQ about "What Type of Budgie is That?" The FAQ could then go on to explain that the smaller variety, known by these various names (insert them all) is the same bird, we refer to them here as (insert term).

 

I don't think anyone is going to jump down somebodies throat because they called the bird something else, are they? But if someone say's "what do you mean?" , surely we are free to say, that is the same as "X" type.

 

Feathers.

Edited January 31, 200718 yr by feathers

I agree.