We have mutations that originated here too, but they are still the basic budgie. Our delightfully entertaining and colourful budgie that we all know and love has "its own way of surprising us with new and wonderful colours and variations of type and colours" ...........but where the budgie lived when a nest produced those colours really isn't a reason to call a budgie an American or any other country's own budgie really. America has not bred a budgie any different to the budgies we have here we call pet budgies so there is no american breed of budgie.

When there are a great many pet budgie owners on this forum who refer to themselves as pet budgie owners and there are also Australians on this forum who also refer to themselves as pet budgie owners...then you have common ground of a descriptive term for that type of budgie.

Can we not start to refer to the smaller colourful budgie that is not shown on a show bench....as a pet budgie...neither American or Australian but PET ?

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Bubbles

One thing we have to remember is that breed is different to species. English and American are different breeds, but they are the same species. They are the species of the Australian budgerigar. English setters and Greyhounds are different breeds, but are the same species: Canis familaris. Sometimes breeding the same breeds together you can sometimes get another breed showing up in the offspring (although rare).

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Sailorwolf

So, what would be wrong about promoting budgerigars on this forum by the terms pet type budgie and show type budgie. ( All budgies in essence resemble their original wild budgie in form feathers, and looks....its just size and shape that has altered ). Noone gets offended, noone gets steered to incorrect terminology and using what has become common usage although inaccurate...we become the educators here, and if we use the terms Show type budgie and pet type budgie in common usuage HERE then we start a trend of common usage that others will follow. Just because something has always been called "......" doesn't mean it should continue if incorrect.

Considering the Australian Budgie has a large following of Australian budgie owners and they are on this forum I would see that as etiquette and consideration as well as correct terminology. Show me a dictionary where it says "American budgie" .

 

Well, for one, a pet budgie can be of the smaller variety as well as the larger. And I really don't see anyone getting offended. Unless you are. (Are you? Truly? :mellow: ) I certainly am not, and hope you are not. Who is to say whether it is incorrect? Why don't we find something reliable in print that says it is?

 

So far only opinions have been expressed. No hard facts one way or the other. It has turned into something of a debate though, so to keep to the spirit of a true debate, we need facts. In the meantime, (to paraphrase Bubbles - nice job) Considering this is an international forum and the little budgie has a very wide international fan base, not just on the continent of it's origin, and that no overwhelming facts have been presented stating that it is incorrect to call the smaller variety American and the larger type English I think etiquette would dictate for the sake of differentiation if someone wants to call a show budgie english and the small variety american it is perfectly okay in the context of this forum, as everyone knows to which type those terms refer. We aim to keep our information as easy to understand as possible. I don't think people need to be told they are wrong in future posts, a quick link to this thread will be all the information anyone needs about the topic, don't you think?

 

I just want to point out that it's not a case of America naming the budgies after our country. In America they are called "parakeets" plain and simple. I have never seen budgies labeled as "American" in any pet store, by any breeder, or by any pet owner (in person). Most Americans have no idea what a budgerigar is. You then have to say "parakeet" to make them understand. Only very obsessed American budgie owners (generally) know that the term "parakeet" is generalized and that "budgie" is correct and specific.

 

That said, it is only online that I see budgies labeled as American but I always know what is meant by it. I assume that this term is used because the English variety is very rare in comparison. It seems to have caught on because those are the types of budgies we keep here.

 

But like I said, there ARE mutations that originated here just as there are mutations that originated elsewhere. When it comes down to it, most of the budgie varieties we keep as pets didn't originate in Australia. The species, yes. The types? No. They're still Australian birds, of course, but once you start labeling them and changing them...well, it gets complicated.

 

In aviculture, parrots are generally given some pretty odd names. The important thing is that we all know where they came from and I do have to say, that I've never seen the fact that these birds are native to Australia contested anywhere. No one is trying to say that Americans are in any way responsible for budgies. Even if we did, most of them wouldn't know what we were talking about anyway!

 

"Oh, you mean parakeets!?"

 

Like Terri said, over here you do not see these birds advertised as American budgies. They are parakeets. A few enlightened shops may call them budgies. Not American budgies. But in every case when they have the larger type available for sale, they are listed as English budgies. It is just a distinguisher, not a claim of ownership. The only place I see the term "American budgie" is in books or online. Who started it or upon what continent it originated I do not know. But I will look, LOL, as you need facts for a true debate!

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Rainbow

Can we not start to refer to the smaller colourful budgie that is not shown on a show bench....as a pet budgie...neither American or Australian but PET ?

If that's what you would rather call them, of course! But you have to realize that there are going to be others who prefer to use slightly different terms and I don't see why we can't accept those? We know what they're talking about and they know what they're talking about. As mentioned above, I've never seen anyone attempt to say that budgies originate from anywhere aside from Australia (as far as the species itself goes). I honestly don't see the harm in allowing people to use whatever terms they're most familiar and comfortable with.

 

My husband is from South Africa (currently living in England) and I from America. On MANY things, we use two different terms and often "argue" over which is most accurate. In the end, it doesn't matter, it's all light hearted because despite the differences between countries, we know what we're talking about. He says lounge while I say living room but we both end up sitting on the safe couch in the same room.

 

You can't really force people to part with a term that they're familiar with if they don't want to, not on a large scale at least. In the end, it's just a name and says very little about the bird itself. What's important is that we recognize the terms that are commonly used and understand what they mean. And we do!

I wouldn't say that there is two different breeds the structure of the birds are the same. The only difference is length, feather structure stance and nature. If the two as skeletons where examined there would not be that much different. Where as two breeds of dogs, say British Bull Dog and Afghan. There would be great skeletal differences.

Length and size is a skeletal change.

Behavioual nature is also breed related.

 

Dogs are also differentiated by their fur softness etc.

 

You also have very similar breeds eg Belgian sheep doog and Alsation.

 

(Laughing out loud) Sheep doog

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Sailorwolf

Budgies aren't dogs. I agree that there is probably skeletal difference as Sailorwolf has stated ( between show and pet ) but that difference is between English style Exhibition or Show budgie in comparison with pet budgies. There is no difference between pet budgies the world over and so called American" pet budgies.

If there is skeletal difference between tall people and short people...does that make them different breeds ?

 

PS I know people arent budgies either, but same story to drag another species into the debate to back up a point.

 

to quote Sailorwolf ...........One thing we have to remember is that breed is different to species. English and American are different breeds, but they are the same species. They are the species of the Australian budgerigar.

Please prove to me that an American budgie is a breed ?!

Edited January 30, 200718 yr by Bubbles

There is no difference between people from different countries. We are all one. We just listen to different music.

 

I think it is confusing and misleading for anyone to have different names for the same thing. That aside, as a cook I have to deal with Corn starch and Corn Flour, Shrimp and Prawns.... pounds and Kilograms.....

 

I believe there should only be four names for what we call budgies. Wild, bush, pet and show. That in it's self explains what the features are.

 

Wild is the bird in the bush,

Bush is the bird in the cage.

Pet is the bird on the fingur

Show is the bird on the bench.....

 

easy

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Daz

:(Laughing out loud): Hey Daz, are you a chef?

No I'm a cook. as a hobbie. I love cooking fancy dishes and holding dinner parties.

 

What's the difference between a cook and a chef ?........ A cook has to clean up after themselves...

Here's my input on the debate...

 

No, I don't have a problem with people using the term 'American budgies', or 'English budgies' or parakeets to term our beloved pet 'budgerigar'.. however I have to always ask by parakeets they actually mean the budgies justs to make sure that I have the right understanding of what they mean.

 

Anyway,like I said, i have no problem of the term 'american budgies, but I just have to point out something that is of my past experience. When I first joined this forum a long while ago seeking help, I remember reading the term 'american budgies', to be honest, it confused the daylight out of me. I've never heard it being use like that. I've heard of English budgies as my uncle was a show breeder and used to refer to his show birds as English every now and then. but American Budgie? It had me in question marks, I was confused. I had no idea that by the term 'american budgies' it meant pet smaller size budgies. I've aways refered to them as budgies (for the smaller size ones) and Show budgies. the bird shops here have them as budgies and english budgies. so as you can see how confusing being on this forum as a newbie can be due to the terminology.

 

Like I mentioned previously, I don't have a problem with any terminology for budgies being used out there on the net or wherever just as long as there's a side note that actually say what they are... It took me months to realise what it meant and even then I find it hard to comprehend still how there's an 'american budgie'....

 

I was once asked in another forum if I had American budgies or english budgies.. I was kinda stumped as to how to really answer that question. But truely, I could have just said American budgies since they are all the smaller size budgies, but then again, all my budgies were bred in australia, not America... why then should I call them the american budgies.. so I just said the smaller type. not for show. Budgies are bred all over the world. Talking about breed, and the size of birds.. I agree totally with what Daz said, is budgies not exactly the same..meaning you can get pet size offsprings from two show budgies and vise versa, so what's tehre to actually distinguish the different from them? 'my two American budgies bred some English budgies!' or my english budgies had some American offsprings? sounds funny doesn't it. I would rather have heard... my two pet budgies bred a surprise show size offspring and or my show size birds didn't do too well and only produced pet size budgies.

 

Again, I do not have any problem with any terminology of budgies used as I know exactly what they mean. However I would think that for people who are not from America may find it a bit confusing to start off with in the forum when they read the term 'american budgies' as I did when I first joined.

American budgies are known as "American" budgies because over here the type was kept close to the original wild budgerigar. English budgies are known as "English" because the English began to breed them to a different standard, of which now they are very different in appearance and even temperament than the wild type budgie

 

sorry but this is way wrong you will find there are more pet birds than show birds in the uk which are exactly the same as the pet birds in america same size colour shape feathering no difference at all

 

 

Modern show budgerigars, also called English budgerigars, are larger than their wild cousins, with puffy head feathers, giving them an exaggerated look.

pet birds in america and europe are larger than there wild cousins

 

 

a simple question

 

america :- show bird standard = english budgie

pet budgie = american budgie

 

 

england :- show bird standard = english budgie

pet budgie = what then do we start calling them american budgies

 

 

pet birds in the usa and gb are exactly the same exactly to size colour shape ect they have not changed one bit i could post a picture of a usa pet bird and a gb pet bird and nobody would be able to tell the difference but if i post a show standard bird against a pet bird they could

 

Left was laid, hatched and raised by a pair of "pet" Budgies.

 

 

Right was laid by a pair of Show birds. Hatched and raised by the same pair that raised the left one.

 

The left one is 20 days old, the right is 21 days old.

 

Both are Budgerigars. Both have been feed excatly the same food and water by the same parents.

The only difference is the genetic back ground. Neither is American or English. They are budgerigars. One will become a show bird the other a pet bird.... Both very muched loved.

Just to clarify, are we debating on which term is technically correct? Because I'm pretty certain we all agree as far as that goes.

 

It's come down to what we're going to allow other people to say and well...we really have no say over what others want to say.

 

Everyone has a different opinion and that just isn't going to change. There are a lot of things I'd like for people to agree with me on concerning budgies, things that are far more important than a name but it's not happening and that's fine, it's life.

 

I just don't see the big deal here. Let people call them what they want! The word "American" is not that dirty, I promise!

Nothing is stopping us from correcting people if they ask and don't seem to know where budgies originated from.

 

But are we really going to nitpick on every single person who comes in here and uses the term "American Budgie?" What if they're used to it and just slip up and say it? It doesn't mean they don't know where budgies originally came from. That just seems a bit excessive and could even be taken as rude to someone who is new.

 

Australians aren't the only group represented on these forums, I think it would be courteous to embrace other peoples' terminology. It's very very simple to educate others on the origin of budgies without telling them what they are and aren't allowed to say.

 

Hath, the answer is call them whatever you are used to calling them/want to call them. I don't think there is a set right or wrong answer, to be perfectly honest.

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by eterri

But are we really going to nitpick on every single person who comes in here and uses the term "American Budgie?" What if they're used to it and just slip up and say it?

i dont think its nitpicking to be honest

When I first joined this forum a long while ago seeking help, I remember reading the term 'american budgies', to be honest, it confused the daylight out of me. I've never heard it being use like that.

if they were called pet and show birds instead of english and american onm here then nobody would be confused would they

without telling them what they are and aren't allowed to say.

is pointing out to somebody that the term american isnt really correct as you have said most places and people in america dont call them american budgies so whats the problem

its not just the term american budgie i dont like its english budgie as well that i dont like we have show birds and pet birds as far as i am concerned the same as america belgium china the only place i would say has three would be australia wild, pet and show to me these terms just make it so much simpler

 

Hath, the answer is call them whatever you are used to calling them/want to call them.

i call them show and pet but according to people on here i should call them english and american ?? now that would be confusing

I don't think you should have to call them english or american. I think you should call them what YOU are comfortable with calling them! Everyone has preferences but we know what is being talked about. We have some people who prefer the terms "show" and "pet" budgies while others are okay with "english" and "pet" budgies and yet another group of people who prefer to say "english" and "american" budgies. I don't see why we should try to change what people are used to saying, especially since it won't really work.

 

Everyone should be free to use the terms they want to use. And well, they are free to use the terms they want to use and no matter how many people you attempt to "correct" you're still going to hear others say "American budgies" to describe those particular birds.

 

Honestly, I don't think anyone is going to stop anyone from "correcting" the term either. But I've seen it happen a few times where someone is corrected for saying american and to me, it can often come off quite rude. I can imagine it would to some new people as well. It's just a term.

I don't see why we should try to change what people are used to saying, especially since it won't really work.

 

No you're right, it won't work. But in my opinion, for the purpose of keeping this forum as easy to understand as possible and as less confusing to new members who are new to the budgies world, the term pet and show should be used. I'm not sure if you even read my post above regarding my experience here with the term 'american budgies', but I was indeed very confused, I honestly thought that there were another 'standard' of budgies out there that I havent heard of (as to having English budgies being the show birds, I thought the american budgies were another standard for show breeding as well). Actually, to be honest, when I first found out what it meant, I was rather offended by the fact that the Americans have called the pet sized budgies the 'American budgies'... After all, England and US are not the only two countries that breeds budgies! But anyway, I got over that. but I have to say again though, it is rather confusing to say the least for those of us that aren't from the US.

 

Everyone should be free to use the terms they want to use. And well, they are free to use the terms they want to use and no matter how many people you attempt to "correct" you're still going to hear others say "American budgies" to describe those particular birds.

 

Again, very true, I don't think that anyone will be able to completely correct the use of incorrect terminology just because we're very used to saying what we've always used them. But let me ask you something, is it then correct and alright for anyone to go ahead and teach those of us who actually doesn't know or have never heard of the term 'American budgies' that that is what the pet budgerigars are called? Is that not same as teaching kids a poodle is called a corgi, or the sun is in fact called a moon?? Well okay, not that drastic, but I'm just trying to make a point.

 

Oh just on that, I think there's been a few mentioned about what they are actually advertised as, and most said they are not advertised as 'american budgies' in petshops and breeders and all that, why then are there budgies being refered to as 'american budgies' on the forums and places like that on the net??

 

Honestly, I don't think anyone is going to stop anyone from "correcting" the term either. But I've seen it happen a few times where someone is corrected for saying american and to me, it can often come off quite rude. I can imagine it would to some new people as well. It's just a term.

 

You know, the fact is you're right yet again, I don't think anyone is going to stop anyone from 'correcting the term, and you know what, most likely it'll always be the Australians that do so. And I don't see anything wrong with them correcting someone who might be using the wrong terminology. I don't see how that can be rude being that if I was calling a cat a dog, I'd wanna know that I'm referring to the species wrong, or calling something the wrong name or whatever, I think good on them for telling me as is.

 

In fact right now, after reading the posts.. I'd really like to know how many people in this forum refer pet budgies as 'american budgies', and also where they are from. What's the bet that most people that use the term 'american budgies' are from the US, or were from there originally. (oh I don't mean anything rude or nasty by this... just like to know the statistics on this that's all)

I think you should call them what YOU are comfortable with calling them!

for me its nothing to do with comfort its to do with practability and ease of understanding for every one although i have kept budgies for years and show birds for over 10 years when i first heard american all them years ago when i joined here i was a little confused i actually thought they were smaller than our pet birds but still larger than wild ones

 

 

 

We have some people who prefer the terms "show" and "pet" budgies while others are okay with "english" and "pet" budgies and yet another group of people who prefer to say "english" and "american" budgies. I don't see why we should try to change what people are used to saying, especially since it won't really work.

 

whether it would change or not i still think the point should be made if someone was calling a df spangle a lutino people would point it out

 

 

 

Oh just on that, I think there's been a few mentioned about what they are actually advertised as, and most said they are not advertised as 'american budgies' in petshops and breeders and all that, why then are there budgies being refered to as 'american budgies' on the forums and places like that on the net??

 

must admit this confuses me even more why people are defending a term which most people dont use

 

 

But I've seen it happen a few times where someone is corrected for saying american and to me, it can often come off quite rude. I can imagine it would to some new people as well.

 

what for pointing something out rude

I read your post and can understand the confusion but I don't think it's the norm. Many people are far more confused by the difference between english budgies and pet budgies! Over and over I've had to explain that they are the same species.

 

The term American budgies just seems to have come about because here in America, that's almost ALL we have! English budgies are far, far more popular in other countries than they are here. It's so incredibly hard to find them! Granted, it is becoming easier as they grow in popularity but still, for the most part, most people have never ever ever seen an English budgie in their entire lives. Not even on TV.

 

Actually, to be honest, when I first found out what it meant, I was rather offended by the fact that the Americans have called the pet sized budgies the 'American budgies'...

This is what I perceive to be the problem overall. But rest assured, it's NOT a matter of Americans trying to claim an Australian bird! We call them parakeets or (rarely) budgies!

 

No, I don't think we should TEACH people to call them American budgies. No one has said that at all. But I also don't think we should go out of our way to tell people that they have to use a different term to what they're used to just to appease ONE group's opinion of what is or isn't acceptable.

 

Many different countries are represented here and that means many different ideas of what is right or wrong whether we're speaking of care or terminology.

 

This is one of those subjects where you're going to get very different opinions no matter what. People are going to disagree and go their own ways and there's not much that can be done about that. Aside from, of course, being open minded and accepting of what others are comfortable with.

I'm not one to join in these debates but like Phoebe said, In Canada we call them budgies. The difference at a petstore might be "normal" "fancy" or "harlequin" and then "University" which are supposed to be more tame.

 

I wonder if the terms american and english budgie are actually used more in Australia and the UK then here in N.A. I had never heard the distinction before joining this site. They've always been budgies or budgerigars.

 

I like the terms pet and show myself and I think it would cause a lot less confusion if this is what was adopted.

 

Just my 2 cents.....

I wonder if the terms american and english budgie are actually used more in Australia and the UK then here in N.A. I had never heard the distinction before joining this site. They've always been budgies or budgerigars.

 

all my bird clubs use the description show and pet budgies

I read your post and can understand the confusion but I don't think it's the norm. Many people are far more confused by the difference between english budgies and pet budgies! Over and over I've had to explain that they are the same species.

 

I think it is a lot more common than you think about how confusing the term really is... and yes I agree that there are plenty of people out there that aren't sure of what an 'English budgies' are... but then wouldn't it be easier for you to say instead of english budgies, show budgies and pet budgies? I certainly would think that people can relate that to having show dogs and pet dogs and all that...

 

 

 

No, I don't think we should TEACH people to call them American budgies. No one has said that at all.

 

I didn't mean go out of your way to to TEACH them. People can pick things up by reading stuff on the forum unless of course they are very very young and don't really understand as yet but that's not the point. I didn't know what 'American budgies' are when I first joined, and yet without anyone teaching me, I learnt/self taught what it meant. So by having people just mentioning it on the forum casually actually taught me that that's what it is.

 

 

This is what I perceive to be the problem overall. But rest assured, it's NOT a matter of Americans trying to claim an Australian bird! We call them parakeets or (rarely) budgies!

I don't see it as a matter of the Americans trying to claim anything (others may but I don't). In my opinion, it is wrong to call something that is not right. I don't go around calling budgies/budgerigar 'Australian budgies'.. They are NOT called 'australian budgies', BUT MERELY budgies/budgerigar! and they are distinguished into groups of show birds and non show birds (easier by calling PET BIRDS). Just like dogs... you have 'show poodles' and 'non show poodles' (not up to the standard), or in cats show burmese and non show burmese... Generally the 'show animals' will be larger in size, and have a certain stance and pose, and fur/feathers quality are much better in comparison to a 'non show (pet quality) animal'. Yes you breed them from the same breed of animals.

 

This is one of those subjects where you're going to get very different opinions no matter what. People are going to disagree and go their own ways and there's not much that can be done about that. Aside from, of course, being open minded and accepting of what others are comfortable with.

 

Again, I agree, this is one of those topics that no matter how much goes into the discussions of it, people will probably have to come to agree to disagree... but it is also a good discussions as long as I don't start calling you names and flaming you and you don't do that to me (generalising here), then it'll just be a good old debate/discussions.

 

 

I wonder if the terms american and english budgie are actually used more in Australia and the UK then here in N.A. I had never heard the distinction before joining this site. They've always been budgies or budgerigars.

 

Shawna...Actually the term American budgies aren't used in Australia at all.. there's budgies, and there's show budgies (with the occasional english budgies thrown in by the breeders who's been in show a while now). You know, I have never read in any form of text regarding budgies to use the term 'american budgies'... only in forums and blogs and all that that I have come acrossed it.

 

I like the terms pet and show myself and I think it would cause a lot less confusion if this is what was adopted.

 

I totally agree with you there Shawna. much less confusion for sure.

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Cheeta

Isn't this forum about educating people on the correct way to look after these birds? So why try to confuse them with different terminology? When Someone comes on this forum they should be informed of the correct terminology used with the birds. As Cheeta Said

I'm not sure if you even read my post above regarding my experience here with the term 'american budgies', but I was indeed very confused, I honestly thought that there were another 'standard' of budgies out there that I havent heard of

 

I am sure others would be the same. In Australia there is Wild, Pet and Show. There is another coming into the shops called Bush. These are bird raised in an aviary but very much resembling the wild bird but a lot tamer.

 

Many Australians have not heard of an English Budgerigar unless you are involved in show breeding and then it is referred to as an English Breed Budgerigar.

 

It should be standardised on this forum what the terms are so as not to confuse people.

 

 

The bird on the left is a PET Budgerigar the one on the rigth is a SHOW Budgerigar.

To save confusion, it should be left at that.

 

I was once corrected by a Canadian because I said they were American……. both come from North America don’t they? It was quickly pointed out where I was wrong.

Edited January 29, 200718 yr by Daz

Budgies sold in Australia are called BUDGIES pure and simple. Noone calls them American budgies here and noone calls them Australian budgies here. If you walk into a bird store to buy a budgie there may be two types.........one type often described at pet budgies for one price and others as "club rung" budgies ( Show budgies ) for a slightly higher price.

Noone her would dare to get rude mannered with a newbie who stated American budgie. But at some point further along they would either realise or be given information that shows them correct terminology. Noone is talking about ill mannered shoving of things down people's throats to make issue of the term. I also agree with Cheetas statement.....is you guys dont use the term American, why defend it so strongly. It means more to us as Australians obviously than it does to you as Americans to word the budgie correctly. It's just common sense. As someone also pointed out we correct if someone calls a mutation by its wrong name so what is the difference here?