Hi,

 

I just read a post by Kirby which mentioned that there's a distinctive marking of some kind on the underside of the tail on spangles. Would anyone happen to have a photo of this, or could you offer any kind of description?

 

It had been suggested in a previous discussion that my bird's wing markings might be consistent w/ a spangle, and I'm wondering what I might look for.

 

Thanks,

~~~ Kali

Hopefully this photo can help you to understand Spangle wing markings. It's a really good photo as the pair are next to each other and the contrast is really obvious. These are two newly fledged babies. The one on the left of photo is a "normal" wing pattern and the one on the right is a "spangle" wing pattern. The easiest way to describe it would be like looking at a photo negative..one a positive photo and one a negative. Its in reverse.

The spangle has the very edge of its wing feathers marked like a fine pencil line with black and the normal budgies black is the main colour of the feathers and its fine line is in yellow ( which is its base colour ).

Edited January 10, 200718 yr by Bubbles

Bubbles,

 

Thanks for the photo -- it is helpful. My bird has very few wing markings, but the ones that he does have seem consistent w/ the spangle-type pattern.

 

Is there actually something distinctive on the underside of the tail, though?

 

~~~ Kali

do you have a picture of your bird's wing marking?

 

I had a look at my spangle boys.. there's just white tail feathers!! (Laughing out loud).. no marking there. Have to check my girl in the aviary to see if she has anything under her tail feathers.

Hi, Cheeta,

 

Our computer is acting up (refuses to acknowledge my camera!), so here's a closeup of an image I already had downloaded which shows some of the wing markings. There aren't many of them (fewer on his left wing), but I'm beginning to see more beginning to spread down the center of his upper back, when wings are laid shut.

 

 

I've tried posting my question to Kirby in the thread where I first saw his comment re: tail markings on spangles, but haven't heard back from him yet. That thread was started by Joey, and entitled: "Can You Figure Them Out, better pictures...".

 

It's not a big deal or anything, I was just curious!

 

Thanks!

~~~ Kali

Yes! That looks like the same marking on the back of my own known!

Hi KaLiMaZu!

 

I didn’t see Nathan’s (Kirby) comment, but I got curious and decided to take some pics of my spangle. Had to use flash, because it’s dark already, and because I wanted the pics to have a god definition so we could see if there where some markings.

 

And in fact, as you can see the underside of the tail also shows some of what Karen (Bubbles) described as a sort of “fine pencil line”.

 

 

 

Another thing you can look for is a sort of mottled effect (a mix of white feathers amongst the blue ones – in my budgies case, or a mix of yellows amongst green) on the rump area.

 

Here is an older picture of Adonis:

 

 

If you look at Karen’s post you can see that effect in her spangle too.

 

Looking at your last post, those markings do not look spangle to me. They look like grey normal markings.

I hunted through ALL of my bird pictures and you would think owning six spangles I would have one of the underside of their tails

 

Since your bird is a pied I don't think he will have any tail markings ( pieds have clear tails)

Luso,

 

Thanks for the photos & info! It may be there isn't anything "spangly" going on here, afterall. I do see the outlines you referred to on yours & Karen's spangles. They're both nice birds, by the way!

 

Since the grey on my bird's feathers is only near the tips, I thought that meant spangle. However, I'm new at this, and easily confused! I'm not trying to make him something he isn't -- just trying to figure out *what* he may be (other than doublefactor dominant pied and yellowface type 2, which I heard fairly consistently).

 

The part re: whether he was clearwing, greywing, dilute, spangle, etc. seemed a bit more up for debate, if I was understanding the comments correctly.

 

Nerwen,

 

Thanks for that bit of info. about his tail being clear since he's pied. He's lost three tailfeathers that I know of, but none have had markings. The only odd thing I notice when I peek under his tail (as he skitters away, wondering what on earth I'm looking at!) is a very thin, dark stripe down the middle of one tailfeather. Whether that means anything, I haven't a clue!

 

~~~ Kali

I hunted through ALL of my bird pictures and you would think owning six spangles I would have one of the underside of their tails :hap:

 

Since your bird is a pied I don't think he will have any tail markings ( pieds have clear tails)

 

Not all pieds will have white tails. The only ones that do are clearflight pieds. Without the clearflight gene a pied's tail will be of normal coloration.

 

Since the grey on my bird's feathers is only near the tips, I thought that meant spangle. However, I'm new at this, and easily confused! I'm not trying to make him something he isn't -- just trying to figure out *what* he may be (other than doublefactor dominant pied and yellowface type 2, which I heard fairly consistently).

 

~~~ Kali

 

Look closely at your bird's feathers. If the grey is at the very edge of the feather, then he is spangle. Spangles will also have the flight feathers edged in black. If the actual edge of the feathers are yellow or white on the wings, he is normal. The picture you posted looked normal to me, but there aren't many feathers there that are not neck barring so it is hard to tell.

 

If the thin, dark stripe down the middle of one tail feather is on a new feather that hasn't grown out all the way yet, you are seeing the blood supply to the feather.

Rainbow,

 

Thanks for your continued assistance! I looked some more at that tailfeather w/ the thin stripe, and the feather is somewhat short, so may well be a blood feather as you mentioned. I never realized those could have a dark greyish/black color to them, instead thinking the color would be similar to that at the base of his nails/claws.

 

If it wasn't a blood feather, might it relate to his being pied? The main coloration on his tailfeathers seems to be yellow (like most of the rest of him!), but the one w/ the dark stripe appears to have a bit of a greyish tinge. I almost wondered if that could be from it picking up dark ink from the newsprint (?!).

 

Re: Luso's comment about the mottled effect on the rump, it seems like I'm noticing some of that, too, but I'm not sure how much of that may relate to his age & the fact that he hasn't gone through a molt yet.

 

His flight feathers are growing back in now, and a couple no longer look "chopped off" at the ends. Those feathers do appear to have a faint gray rim on their edges (I almost mistook it for dirt!), but the lighting is dim in here at night, so I'll have to recheck in daylight, and continue to watch as they grow back in.

 

~~~ Kali

Edited January 13, 200718 yr by KaLiMaZu

One thing I find kinda annoying about the description of spangle is that their markings are reversed to that of a normal. This isn't actually true. If you look at a spangle feather carefully, you will see that there is infact a white or yellow edge to it and then the black stripe and then the white or yellow centre. They have exactly the same markins as a normal, however the inner colouring of the feather is actually clear of any melanin and it only lines the outside of where it would be normally on a normal budgie feather.

One thing I find kinda annoying about the description of spangle is that their markings are reversed to that of a normal. This isn't actually true. If you look at a spangle feather carefully, you will see that there is infact a white or yellow edge to it and then the black stripe and then the white or yellow centre. They have exactly the same markins as a normal, however the inner colouring of the feather is actually clear of any melanin and it only lines the outside of where it would be normally on a normal budgie feather.

 

 

I agree with that... I've definitely noticed the white/yellow edge to the spangles. but I do describe the spangle marking as it it's like reverse patterns as that is the best way to really explain it to people who are only first learning how to reckonise the mutations.

Yes it is definately easier to say as well.