goldenfaces look like a green bird but they still are a blue lined bird.

 

This is this the mother:

looking close you can still see a mix of blue with the now green body.

 

Yes! That is more like my Shasta but he is not a spangle. and his yellow face is a more lemony yellow. Thanks for that picture.

Shell

In Answer to LusoPeriquito's post.

 

So here goes nothing… if I’m not mistaken a recessive pied cobalt should look like this:

RPC

 

Correct.

 

When we refer to a cobalt we are talking of a blue budgie, if on top of that he is a pied, what we expect to find is a variegated white and blue budgie, right?

 

Not really. The bird is a blue base pied that is why he is white. The cobalt is the colour of the band. If the band is lighter he would be a Skyblue pied, if darker he would be a mauve pied.

 

So either my monitor is throwing me off or CheekyChucky’s budgie is clearly yellow and blue.

 

I agree whit Dingo on the fact that the budgie in question must be a Yellowface cobalt recessive pied, more, he must be a Yellowface type II Cobalt recessive pied, because of the extension of the yellow on his body.

 

Correct.

 

Yellowface type II pied have been talked about on this forum before:

8509

 

I have found some more pics like these next ones, that made me conclude that, sometimes the yellow doesn’t seem to cover all of the white, but in fact it does, although very lightly, leaving the impression of a cream colour:

1

2

3

 

It is normal that the yellow bleed in a type II doesn't cover the intire body.

 

Just like it happens in some Yellowface albino’s (also known as creamino):

Creamino

 

It is even possible to have a Yellowface blue clearflight pied, like this next one:

clearf1

clearf2

clearf3

clearf4

clearf5

clearf6

clearf7

 

Or a Yellowface blue spangle pied:

spangle1

spangle2

 

But sometimes, instead of that “light” version, where the budgie looks a cream colour, the yellow really stands out throw all the areas that should be white, just like this next exemple (and CheekyChucky’s budgie):

deep yellow

 

Could it be that the cream type is the Yellowface blue pied, and the other one that presents the deeper yellow colour is the Goldenface blue pied?

 

That would make CheekyChucky’s budgie a Goldenface type II Cobalt recessive pied... is this possible?

 

It is possible to have a goldenface recessive pied. But i think the yellow would be more buttercup that what I see in the photo

 

Well, this ends my expose and I may well be wrong about all of this… it has happened before! I’m not infallible, and I’ve never met anyone ho is…

 

I can tell you that if anyone comes around a forum giving the impression of being all knowing and the sole owner of the absolute thruth about all things…. That person will certainly not have my trust.

 

I think LusoPeriquito gave it a good go and did pretty well. I am interested in others comments

Oh and I am not saying that I am 100% correct either

Edited October 4, 200618 yr by daz

Daz,

 

Thank you for replying! I’m glad I wasn’t a 100% right either!

 

Nerwen,

 

About your last post, I’m really in to this debate… and still have some doubts…

 

Yellowface and Goldenface are really interesting mutations, and we can’t find much written stuff about it’s interaction with other mutations (Pied, Spangle, Opaline, Ino, and others).

 

So, what you are saying is that the Goldenface would turn all the blue in to green, which isn’t happening with CheekyChucky’s budgie, cause he has visible blue, so he would have to be yellowface type II.

 

Yet…. (there is always a “yet” isn’t there)

 

In the World Budgerigar Organization’s site, I found this note:

 

“Yf Mutant 2 and Gf can be bred in single factor forms but it is desirable that only the double factor forms are exhibited as unavoidable confusion can be caused with single factor examples due to the heavily increased suffusion of yellow into the body colour which distorts the basic blue to green/blue shade.”

 

WBO (see in Other Varieties and then YF2 and GF link)

 

This means that both YF type 2 and GF, if they are single factor, could have the same effect (turning all or part of the blue in to green). So, when we are told that something “may” happen, we must assume that it also “may not” happen…. Right?

 

That would mean that both YF2 and GF may alter blue to green, but they also may not completely do it. At this stage wouldn’t both mutations still be possible for CheekyChucky’s budgie?

 

I’m now thinking… how can we then see which of the options is right? Wouldn’t we have to go by the analysis of the shade of yellow? Could the cream version be YF and the deeper yellow version be GF? Could they both be YF and a third even deeper shade of yellow be the real GF?

 

Daz seems to think the yellow shade isn’t deep enough for GF. What do you think?

 

I think I’m going nuts… my brain hurts!!

Yes your right then do get a bit blurry with these sort of things.

 

I was only wondering becuase of my birds, but recessive pied is a different gene to dominant and can cuase a different affect, when the bird get's older we may see the bleed into the blue as well.

OI!

 

I was going to quote multiple posts, but when I looked at it to sort through all my responses I thought my head would explode...

 

I have an oddity to throw into the mix...regarding yellow coloring in a blue series pied ** the goldenface factor creating a greenish look on a blue bird ** the possibility of a yellowface type 2 bleeding throughout the body - but without creating the greenish look... as was discussed here already.

 

Daz, did you forget about Sunny?

 

Could it be that the cream type is the Yellowface blue pied, and the other one that presents the deeper yellow colour is the Goldenface blue pied?

 

That would make CheekyChucky’s budgie a Goldenface type II Cobalt recessive pied... is this possible?

 

 

It is possible to have a goldenface recessive pied. But i think the yellow would be more buttercup that what I see in the photo

 

I know we were initially discussing recessive pieds, but broadly put a pied is pied. In the basic sense pied is a patterning and not color-related. So with respect to characteristics of color only, I submit that you can have a goldenface or yellowface type 2 cobalt that retains the cobalt color without the bleedthrough that normally turns the blue feathers green. The bird on exhibition is a cobalt DF dominant pied...that is yellow and cobalt. His face is a darker yellow than anywhere else on his body, you can see this very well in the first two shots before the molt...does this make him goldenface or YF2 as there is no white on this bird other than the flights and tailfeathers (which probably are white not because he is a blue bird but because of the clearflight pied gene...otherwise the tail would be blue?)?

 

Before the first molt:

 

 

During first molt - around the 18-20 week mark (I know the timeline because the flights are growing out, and the only clip they ever had was at 16 weeks :sad:)

 

 

With adult plumage:

 

 

There is no green in there.......

 

 

 

Cheeta - I think Blondie is marked a lot like Sunny - are you sure she is recessive and not DF dominant?

 

I wonder that this effect is seemingly so hard to achieve? It seems that many have not seen a type 2 YF blue that is blue and not green. Could this be due to some other gene that we are not taking into consideration?

Blondie is recessive as I bred her from two recessive parents

Then there is nothing else she can be! Don't you think they are marked similarly? I guess this is a good example of the difficulty telling apart recessive pieds and DF dominant ones.

 

I love this forum.