After hearing from Jenene on her tragic problem with having to cull french moult babies, and researching to add to my own knowledge base.....I find I have what appears to be two chicks suffering the same problem. They are around 2-3 weeks of age and have very few feathers or down. Very obviously not feathering as they should. There are many differing schools of thought on why and how this problem occurs and the solutions. I hesitate to take drastic measures. One of my former breeders had this in her babies and said after a moult and new feathers grew in there was no more problem. I also found this article

 

QUOTE "100% RE-GROWTH AND NO TRACE OF FRENCH MOULT

 

As soon as one observes the early conditions I described at about the 4 week stage, I strip the affected youngster of all primary and secondary flights and tails - all of them! One does this by removing one feather gently at a time - not in handfuls! You then get your newly "created runner" out on to the floor of the breeding cage, so that it is picking around, and learning to eat much earlier than normal. It therefore becomes dependent on its own intake of food much earlier.

 

Now comes the important fact. The feathers that have been withdrawn are now replaced by 100% new growth that has no trace of French Moult whatever! This I would submit supports the nutritionalist group completely.

 

My only reservations are that George Smith's ideas are closely associated with the nest box droppings and the bacterial and fungal infections that may be ingested from that source. It might be that by my techniques, the affected (stripped) bird picks up grit from the cage floor or grit pot and this then aids very quickly the digestive processes which results in the formation of the new unaffected growth. Perhaps on the other hand there is a combination of both ideas. Should the nest boxes be cleaned out at say the 3 1/2 week stage of the chicks' life and be replaced by clean sawdust and some grit amongst it? I don't really know, but it's worth thinking about. "

 

So, what do the experts say ??

Edited June 6, 200619 yr by budgiebird

Is this french moult ??

Well I am sure you have been reading and reading here are a couple more article and the 2nd one shows a pictures. I am no expert, I sent the picture to Terri (who is unable to access the site) I will let you know what she says if she e's back.

 

I would seriously take them to the vet or if you can send the vet the pictures you showed us and see what he thinks.

 

http://www.birdhealth.com.au/about/r-polyomavirus.html

http://www.vetafarm.com.au/manage/document...FRENCHMOULT.pdf

Thankyou for the info Lovey. I have been doing a lot of reading....yes. I do believe these two have french moult and I believe I know who the carrier bird is. I do not necessarily think drastic measures are the only options here as there are so many schools of thought on this subject that it bears thinking about. I will be talking to my avian vet later in the day when he is IN. Will update.......cheers Karen

 

Vet has contacted and said cull the babies and parents. :nest:

being in the US I assume cull is very bad? put them down?

Which family is this?

being in the US I assume cull is very bad? put them down?

Which family is this?

He said cull.....kill them or remove them from aviary.....Princess, Bonnie and Clyde and babies.

This vet knows my veterinary nursing background and we have discussed all aspects of this situation. Has seen the photos. Says if the babies are Bonnie and Clydes, it may mean too many clutches or stress for them has caused this.....although they had a good spell from breeding. If the babies are the adopted ones of Princess, which is more likely since she has funny feathers on her wings....described as a " badly marked normal"......then she is the carrier. Says its best to be sure and take all these ones from aviary.

Edited June 6, 200619 yr by budgiebird

okay firstly DO NOT kill them. I have just read an article in the Australian BirdKeeper magazine about French moult. Baby budgies are incredibly lucky in that they tend to survive very well, grow all their feathers back and appear normal as an adult. Their only problems are that they will have deformed flight feathers (which is quite hard to tell apart from normal flight feather) this means they can't fly and ar commonly termed "runners" or "creepers".

French moult or polyomavirus, is carried by adult birds (it does'not affect them) and passed on to babies. It (the virus) disappears in 6 months. The article suggests, rather than cleaning and bleaching your nest boxes, you should burn them instead. This is the only way. And to clean out you avairies immensely.

 

The reason why I say this, is I believe that I have a budgie that had french moult. I as an unsuspecting young bird lover, bought her, without knowing anything( plus the petshop assistant clipped her wings when I bought her). Now four years down the track, I think she had french moult when she was a baby, as she has never been able to fly, and her flight feathers are slightly curled in at the ends and her tail feathers stick out at odd angles. She is the yellow DF spangle in my siggy. I am very annoyed at the breeder who sold a diseased budgie to a petshop who in turn sold it to me who as a young enthusiast (who had no idea what french moult was) bought her expecting her to be able to fly and have fun. I do not regret, buying her, although she is a grump who can't fly, but she is absolutely adorable.

 

My point is, don't cull your babies, they can still go on to live a great life. Just seperate them and parents from the rest of the flock for 4 months. Have them retested for the virus and then quarintine them for a further 4 weeks, before reintroducing them.

 

Remember where there is life there is hope.

Thankyou for that helpful information. There is so many differing opinions on this that you dont know where to turn next. I wouldnt like to have to destroy a bird over a feather problem. I have seen some birds in full and decent feather that had french moult as babies. I will do as you suggest and wait and see the end result. Cheers karen

not all birds grow normally after french moult as for culling thats a your choice my choice would be to remove the chicks and parents and out them in my retirment flight if you dont have the space find good homes for them ensuring people know that they cant breed from same birds

not all birds grow normally after french moult as for culling thats a your choice my choice would be to remove the chicks and parents and out them in my retirment flight if you dont have the space find good homes for them ensuring people know that they cant breed from same birds

I have space. Would removing the chicks in nestbox and the parent to another cage set up be workable at this stage....i.e. would the mother still care for them ? or stress over the move ?

Karen, so sorry to hear this. I don't know much about French moult, but I've heard it is very contagious. I would say that if many more of your birds are at risk for picking up the virus, I would risk moving them to their own space somewhere. You don't want any of your others to pick it up and possibly pass it on to their babes. Those chicks look quite far along. Hopefully everyone will handle the move well.

Contagious is some of the information going around and there are other opinions to the reverse also. Its very confusing to say the least. Upon reading some say if there was eggs from one set of parents prone to french moult and they were put in different boxes with foster parents to hatch, then all chicks that hatch would have french moult while other siblings in the nest would not. There are two in this nest that dont have it and were raised alongside these ones. These F.M. babies were fostered from a Mum that rejected her eggs. She shows no signs of french moult but must obviously carry the gene. The mum feeding the bubs now is not the mother that carries the gene or virus. She is in a nest with two other babies she did manage to raise. I could try and put foster mum in a cage with these babies to finish raising them and then adopt a wait and see scenario. Also then I must probably do the same with the other mother and her two chicks. That is assuming I have worked out correctly who may be the one with the french moult. Some say virus and some say too many clutches and stress causes this. Very confusing. Even the vet says inconclusive as to origins.

i have only had one case of french moult and this was years ago i let the chicks frow as normal when they were ready to leave i put them with the parents into my retirement flight if i remember right there is still one chick left which will make him about eleven or twelve i think

i have only had one case of french moult and this was years ago i let the chicks frow as normal when they were ready to leave i put them with the parents into my retirement flight if i remember right there is still one chick left which will make him about eleven or twelve i think

Thanks Hath. Better a chick with some kind of life than none I say.

I would say the carrier would be the mother of the chicks with french moult, because it is passed from mother to baby.

I would say the carrier would be the mother of the chicks with french moult, because it is passed from mother to baby.

 

Agreed. Just have to work out which mother due to egg fostering.

Haha, juggling act. Sounds like a puzzle.

Haha, juggling act. Sounds like a puzzle.

Marked eggs with safe pen. A few wet days and it wore off. I am down to a couple of choices. But how is it that two other chicks in the nest havent got french moult if it is hugely contagious. In my reading it can be caused by 1. viral and 2. overbred hen. Mind you, there are so many theories flying around with no two people agreeing on any of it.

Hehe. Use pencil, it doesn't wash off so easily.

Apparently it is a virus: polyomavirus. I don't know how it works.

I read about it in Australian Birdkeeper magazine

Hehe. Use pencil, it doesn't wash off so easily.

Apparently it is a virus: polyomavirus. I don't know how it works.

I read about it in Australian Birdkeeper magazine

Pity there wasn't an over the counter test strip thing. Budgies could pee on a stick, a blue line appears and we know who's got what . Sailorwolf...there is your first mission as a Vet... Test strips for birdie diseases

Haha, yes, good Idea.

*******************UPDATE**********************

I decided to wait and see with these two babies that had no feathers when they should have. AND I'm glad I did

BEFORE and

AFTER

and this one

BEFORE and

AFTER

I think they were just slower at getting it all together.

gorgeous

i'm glad you waited! they are both gorgeous!!

I would say the carrier would be the mother of the chicks with french moult, because it is passed from mother to baby.

both parents have to have it there is an excelent article in budgerigar world this month and after a lot of research these are his conclusions

 

split feather duster x split feather duster = 25% normal

50% split

25% feather duster