The Black Doctor

I was thinking the same thing GB, but I didn't know how to pick a SF or DF skyblue from a cobalt violet. I have now read that Peter Bergman article and see what you mean by the turquoise flight and tail feathers. Hopefully it won't be too dark by the time I get home! I'll post some more pics tomorrow. I'll be able to get a pedigree report next time I see the breeder. I will also give him a copy of that article - he'd be very interested in it I think.

Thanks so much again for your time today GB. Here's some photos of my new cobalt violet hen - with her future partner: And with the normal grey hen: I'll try and post some better photos once she's finished her next moult.

Thanks Kaz & GB - 6 eggs now. I didn't actually realise I wouldn't get any visual albinos from this pairing. I don't have another albino hen to put with any of the cocks that may come this nest (might have to consider my options, as I'm not that big a fan of albinos - it's my daughter's bird and she really really wanted us to breed her!). Hopefully I get some good normal hens though.

Anyone?Hard to say about the dark factor. Violet would give a dark factor-like change to his appearance, law of percentages would argue he has one dark factor Could be zero, but its neither here nor there until you breed him!okay - so now that I'm a bit more awake and had a chance to think about this, I think I get it.Because the violet factor is partially dominant, you have around about a 75% chance of it coming through if you breed to birds that carry violet.Is this the case with all birds, or are some more likely to pass on the violet gene than others? And how do you tell a DF violet from a SF violet?Geez - I thought I had it, but now I'm confused again! okay - now I see why you guys suggested breeding with a skyblue - so I can work out what dark factor he is. Interesting!

Suffusion has nothing to do with wing markings. Suffusion is a pale wash of body colour showing through :rofl: PS you didnt get back to saying what colour her eyes are ? okay - thanks Kaz. Not sure about the photo, but she is white all over, no colour in her whatsoever. And her eyes are red - albino.

:rofl: Anyone? Hard to say about the dark factor. Violet would give a dark factor-like change to his appearance, law of percentages would argue he has one dark factor :rofl: Could be zero, but its neither here nor there until you breed him! Thanks heaps for your help Dean!

Thanks Splat. By suffusion, do you mean her wing pattern, because I'm not sure what happened with that photo, but sure has no wing markings whatsoever.

She's defintely an albino. She now has 5 eggs and looks like she was ready to drop another one today. I've candled them and it looks like at least 3 are fertile! It might be a bit early to make a call on the other two. All progressing well!

:rofl: Anyone?

RIP Budgies - the sire is defintely a grey dominant pied with no violet whatsoever. The dam, is a violet cobalt, but as I mentioned above, it's not as brilliant a violet as some of the breeders other violets. So, now that I have determined he is a dominant pied grey violet, can you confirm the following: - If I pair him with a normal skyblue hen - I should get 50% blue, 50% grey and some of these should carry violet - If I pair him with the normal cobalt violet hen I am getting off the same breeder - I should once again get 50% blue, 50% grey and all should carry violet Is this correct? And does anyone want to take a punt a what dark factor my dominant pied grey violet cock is?! Looking at his colouring I'd say no dark factor, but I have not really seen too many grey budgies together and it seems to me to be very difficult to pick the dark factor in a grey, unlike the blues and green where it is fairly clear.

thats great you just remember when looking at greys anything with his colour cheek patch the french blue is most probbly violet grey with his colouring it helps you find the violet birds that are unknown by some breeders Thanks for the advice GB. Great to see that IPS error is now fixed!! Anyway, he has over 120 birds and it was very interesting to see his setup and which birds he had paired together (about 60 birds breeding at the moment!). I was up there for an hour and had a good look at the parents of my bird - the hen defintely has violet in her but it didn't appear to show through that much in her body colour, unless she is a skyblue violet, but her colouring was more like a cobalt, just a bit more intense (if that makes sense!). She definitely had a purple tinge around her neck at the bottom of her mask and different coloured cheek patches to the other cobalts. However, he had some violets that were more vivid in colour and you could definitely tell the cobalt violet pieds - all from the same nest - beautiful violet colouring which looked awesome on the dominant pied. Something I'd like to try and achieve. Anyway, I get to pick up my young hen next weekend, so in 12 months or so I'll pair her with my best blue cock (or the grey violet pied) and hopefully get some nice chicks.

I finally managed to work out who the owner is and I spoke to him about it. He said my bird is definitely a dominant pied grey violet and said the violet factor came from the hen's side. Because it is difficult to pick the violet in the green series birds that produced the cobalt hen, he just put it down as a cobalt in his records (I'm guessing that it could possibly be a skyblue violet rather than a cobalt). Anyway, he said that he has quite a few violet birds and has been trying to breed a violet dominant pied for years. He now has one and I'm going up there today to have a look at his birds. He has 30 pairs breeding at the moment! He also said he has a young cobalt violet hen, which he is going to keep for me. I'll take my camera and take some photos if he let's me. GB - Your boy does have the same colouring and the same slate cheek patches as mine. Perhaps the mystery has now been solved!

Thanks for all your thoughts! So, I'm guessing I'll pair him with a violet skyblue hen or a skyblue hen (anyone got a violet skyblue hen they want to sell me?) If he is grey, what's the best way to breed the grey out, while still keeping the violet (presuming he has it)? I understand that the violet gene does not attach itself to the colour gene, so to me it seems like it could be achieved. It seems the best way is to get rid of the grey is to see which of his offspring are carrying the violet and are not grey and breed them to, say, a nomal skyblue or cobalt or a violet bird that does not have any grey? Can his offspring be split for grey, or is this impossible as grey is a dominant colour. Now I'm getting myself confused....!

Thanks for all the replies guys. Yes, I too thought it was strange that the fancier's pedigree report stated that was a dominant pied violet grey, as there is no trace of violet on his family tree. I must admit though, I haven't seen his parents or grandparents, so they could possibly (?) have the violet gene, but it's just not evident on the pedigree records. The pedigree report I received for the other bird I bought off this breeder has a mauve grandparent, so I would have thought this breeder knows the difference between a mauve bird and a grey one - but who knows. I took some more photos this morning and it was a bit overcast here when I took them. Anyway - the plot thickens!

Dean - thanks so much for posting all the info on the violets - it's very interesting. I recently purchased (what I was told) was a dominant pied grey cock, however, he looked more of a cobalt colour to me. I asked for a pedigree report and received it today from the breeder (who is a member of a budgie club). It states that the cock is a dominant pied violet grey. Here's a (not so good) picture: I'll try and get a better one tomorrow! Anyway, his parents are: Cock - Dominant Pied Grey from (Cock - Opaline Skyblue, Hen - Dominant Pied Greygreen) Hen - Opaline Cobalt from (Cock - Opaline Dark Green, Hen - Opaline Light Green) I don't have the complete pedigree of the great-grandparents, but there is no violet in any that are listed (lots of Cobalts though). From what you've posted, Dean, I can't work out how this bird could be deemed a violet, as you say the violet gene is partially dominant and therefore one of the parents would have to show violet, otherwise it wouldn't be there (I think??). Also, you mentioned previously that it is not a good idea to breed a violet and a grey, however, (if he is in fact carrying the violet gene) I'm wondering what I would need to pair this bird with in order to get the violet 'away' from the grey. I'm presuming my best chance would be to pair it with a violet cobalt hen? Or is trying to get violets out of this bird a futile exercise?

I'm 99% sure she's got red eyes with a white iris, but I'll have another look tonight (if she comes out of the nesting box long enough for me to check!). Visually she doesn't appear to have any wing markings (maybe they're just very, very faint). It may just be the light on the feathers in that photo, but I see it in that photo, now that you point it out! She has an iris, so if her eyes are black and she does have wing markings, I guess she could be a DF spangle, or possibly a blue series dilute?

Pong (dark green opaline cock) and Sami (albino hen) have been mating qutie regularly (mostly first thing in the morning) over the past week. Sami started going into the nesting box about 10 days ago, and last week Pong started going in there too. Sami has been spending more and more time in the box and this morning the first egg arrived! Hopefully there will be more in the days to come. Just a couple of questions: - When do I candle the eggs to find out whether they're fertile? - The birds were still mating this morning - will they continue to mate while she is laying eggs? Thanks in advance.

Thanks splat. That's what I thought, but it never hurts to check. I have a nesting box with a concave - should I be introducing some nesting material (i.e. sawdust etc.) as well, or is it fine with just the concave?

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I couldn't see it anywhere. I was just wondering when and how often I should be cleaning out the nesting box? Should it be cleaned out if there aren't any eggs laid (the pair have been mating, the hen is spending a lot of time in the box and the cock has started going into the box as well). Should it be cleaned out during the egg laying phase? Should it be cleaned out when the eggs hatch? If so, is there an appropriate time in the phase when this should be done and how often should it be done and what should I be using to clean it out with?

Thanks for the welcome and the information nubbly5. I think the more I read, the more inclined I am to pair the green with the albino, then the dominant pied with the grey (when she's old enough). I probably then swap each pair over and see what comes out of the nest, then I might look at bringing in some birds from another breeder, depending on which way I want to go at the time and what I end up with.And thanks Kaz for fixing up my photos!

okay - I took some photos this morning, so please fire away with any suggestions for pairings! Pong - Dark green opaline cock Sami - Albino hen Ping - Grey dominant pied cock Jamee - Grey normal hen Aaaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh! Why aren't my photos sitting underneath one another!!

Thanks splat. I'm breeding in cabinets - one question - is it okay to leave the cabinet inside the aviary or is this a bad idea? The dominant pied is grey, so would it be better to put him over the ablino hen? The dark green opaline cock is the better bird though - I just don't want to end up with a heap of green birds. I guess I'd then have to buy another albino hen to mate with her offspring cocks if I wanted to produce an albino, or buy a male albino or normal/albino to breed with my existing albino hen? I want to have a good flock of dominant pieds, so would it be better to put the grey dominant pied cock over the grey hen? (she is the best bird out of the four) Any idea of the colours I could expect from these pairings? I might take some photos of the birds and post them. Thanks again for your help. well i read this from your welcome post so to start with welcome ps i love the name im going to say that if your worryed about colour and your breeding for show standards then dont as as you get more birds if you think about the chicks you produce this time with your two pairings and then buy in a bird to introduce the colour it will be okay just for show birds its best to pair the birds that dont have same fults rather than best to best (untill you have only good ) unless i saw the birds i could not comment on my pairing opinion as idealistically anything you pair with the albino will give you split albino cocks but if you dont know what your albino hen is masking eg opaline spangle skyblue cobalt or grey possibly even violet or sky violet then id be inclinded to pair her to the opaline boy this way you will find out if shes Opaline or not and spangle at same time and as for colour well you may get a prize and he may be split blue so you will find out alot from this pairring however if shes masking grey you will find this out also as you will get grey greens maybe to see if hes split cinnamon thats just me though when i have no back ground i tend to breed things that can bring out the most of whats hidden well good luck oh and its better not to breed in aviary as toes can be bitten off but if you cover cabinets or put shade cloth on tightly so bids cant get caught and can all still see eachother what not its okay its just the protective nest thing that makes probblems in my eyes Thanks so much for the info GenericBlue - it really helps. I'm not really breeding for colour - I'm just interested in what I could expect, but it appears that the only way I'm going to get a bit more of an idea about what my birds are split for it to look at the chicks they produce. I'm guessing even then there could be a trait that doesn't appear in the chicks anyway! It's all a bit confusing, but at the same time exciting! I wasn't sure how albino's came about or what traits my hen may be carrying, but from what I've read on this site and what you've told me, it sounds like she could be split for a number of traits - that's great! I'll take some photos in the morning and try and post them, so you can have a look at them. Obviously, there nowhere near the quality of some of the photos I've seen on here, but I've got to start somewhere. Despite my enthusiasm, I want to be patient and do it right. I'll take on board your and Kaz's advice re: the breeding cabinet not being in the avairy - I'll move it into the garden shed once I've cleared some space! I got the cocks on Saturday and put them in a cage with my existing hens. On Sunday I moved the birds into the avairy and they seem to be settling into it nicely. I was intending to pair them up this weekend - I just have to finish building the breeding cabinet.

Hi Guys. I've only recently joined here and hope to post more often in the future. I have a dark green opaline cock (2 years old), a grey dominant pied cock (21 months old), an albino hen (18 months old) and a grey (I think) normal hen (8 months old). I'm looking to breed these birds and introduce others as I go along. I have really enjoyed reading all the posts – this is an excellent site for someone like myself – I’ve learnt so much in the last week just from this site. Thanks so much to all those who have contributed. Hopefully a few of you can give me some advice on a topic I posted in another area: http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=29424 I look forward to discussing budgie-related topics with everyone.

Thanks splat. I'm breeding in cabinets - one question - is it okay to leave the cabinet inside the aviary or is this a bad idea? The dominant pied is grey, so would it be better to put him over the ablino hen? The dark green opaline cock is the better bird though - I just don't want to end up with a heap of green birds. I guess I'd then have to buy another albino hen to mate with her offspring cocks if I wanted to produce an albino, or buy a male albino or normal/albino to breed with my existing albino hen? I want to have a good flock of dominant pieds, so would it be better to put the grey dominant pied cock over the grey hen? (she is the best bird out of the four) Any idea of the colours I could expect from these pairings? I might take some photos of the birds and post them. Thanks again for your help.

Hi guys. Have spent hours reading all the information on your site and it's really helped me get set up and ready to start breeding. I have a dark green opaline cock (2 years old), a grey dominant pied cock (21 months old), an albino hen (18 months old) and a grey (I think) normal hen (8 months old). I was going to pair up the opaline cock and the grey hen, but after reading everyone's advice about when to breed a hen, I have thrown that idea out for at least another 6 months. She is a very good bird though, she has good size, great markings and a good head. I'm pretty sure she is a grey, as her cheek patches are grey, not blue. All the birds are together in the aviary I've just built and the two hens have very dark brown ceres. My dilemma now is which cock I should pair with the albino hen. I've read that I should watch the birds to see which one's naturally pair up, but then I know a breeder who just selects the birds he breeds with so he gets a certain result. I've only got one hen who's ready to breed, so at least that part of the decision is easy! The grey pied cock does not have as good a head and is very slightly smaller than the dark green opaline cock. The albino hen is smaller again and has a small head. I am wanting to use these four birds as the basis of my flock, but will probably purchase better quality birds down the track to improve the flock overall. I like the colouring of the pieds, but I understand the need to have good quality normals as well. So from what I've read here, I believe I could expect the following results if I paired the birds together: Opline cock & Albinon hen – Normal/albino cocks & Normal hens. Some of the cocks may carry the opaline trait, but any female carrying the opaline trait will be visibly opaline. Will I only get green birds from this mating, or will I get other colours too? Dominant Pied cock & Albino hen – I don't know whether the cock is a SF or DF, but I guess I'll know soon enough, as DF will produce all SF chicks, SF will produce 50% SF and 50% normal. I presume some of the cocks (or all?) will carry the albino trait, but none of the hens will carry it? Once again, I am not sure what colours I will get either. I guess the other and probably more important aspect long-term, is which cock I should put with the grey hen in about six months time. Is it okay to use the same cock with the albino hen and then swap it to the grey hen, or should I 'rest' one male so he's ready to mate with the grey hen? The grey hen is the better bird and I'm not too fussed on albinos to be honest, so I'd rather be patient and keep the best birds for breeding. I'd really appreciate any suggestions or advice. Thanks in advance.