Finnie

Can you ship me your old camera? Maybe that's what it would take for me to get a good photo! :rofl:

Oh No! Is that fixable, or is it a permanent problem?

Sure I do....there are around 8 photobucket accounts :rofl: OMGosh! You are the photo GURU!! :rofl: I can't even get one good shot that's not blurry! I can't imagine filling up 8 photobucket accounts! Wow.

Cool, I haven't gotten that for, i got bogged down at the MUTAVI site! Can't wait! (Have not been able to get much done today... :rofl:)

Thinking, thinking..... Large highway, fresh roadkill Well, if it's good enough for the crows and the vultures.... :rofl: :rofl:

I went off to google budgie genetics, and found an interesting item on Wikipedia. It has a table that lists the loci of the different mutations. I don't know how complete it is (doesn't mention BES), but it appears that the only other locus to have interacting alleles, other than the b locus (green, yf, blue) and the dil locus (greywing, clearwing, dilute) , would be the ino locus. Somehow that involves Texas Clearbody. In any case, it is an interesting list of mutations, and the article has several links, references that I am going to go back and check into further. Here is the link to the article: Budgie genetics, Wikipedia

What do you mean GB? What could go wrong? :rofl: e. coli salmonella bovine encephalitis trichinosis the list goes on. It's why we are not supposed to eat undercooked meat and eggs. now, if you could provide them with freshly killed wild animals raw... :rofl:

He talks about breeding black eye to black eye, black eye to grey yellow, and black eye to suffused. Does anyone know specifically what he means by "grey yellow" and "suffused"? (i.e. are those types of black eyes, or types of some other mutation?) He talks like black eye is in danger of becoming extinct. That would rule out my making one by combining dilute with cinnamon. :rofl: Makes it sound like Linda's bird is desperately needed in the gene pool!

That is a good question. It would be nice to have a list of them, wouldn't it? What about ino and lacewing? I think I've heard that there can be crossover, where the ino and the cinnamon get separated, so that would imply that they are on separate, but very close loci. We talk a lot about color genetics, because we can visualize them. But I'm sure there must be examples of multiple alleles for other traits, like health, bone structure, feather quality, temperament. As far as the yellowface and dilute series go, it seems like you have something similar, but when you pick it apart, you can separate out small details. (like FBC being different to greywing.) I wonder if there are different types of opaline, or different types of spangle, but we just lump them all together because the differences are so small. Food for thought, but no answer to your question. Maybe someone else knows.

1151 photos- WOW! Where are all the rest? I know you have more!! :rofl:

Chookbreeder, are you saying that there are actually 5, not 4, alleles on this locus? (Normal, greywing, clearwing, dilute, and now this "blackeye") I have never heard it explained that way before. Hi Finnie, Yes I know, the literature only talks about 4 alleles. I am guessing the problem is that there are few australian blackeyes in the northern hemisphere so not a lot of work has been done on them. Cheers PT Thank you, CB. I tried to do a search for black eyed self, and couldn't really find anything. (I'm technology challenged) There were a couple of interviews with BES breeders, and I came across the Standard, but nothing on the genetics of it. One reference mentioned that they were only found in Australia. Now, I'm not ready to take a side, yet, but if it were a matter of combining cinnamon with dilute, wouldn't they be found everywhere, and not be considered rare? Can any of you who are better at finding stuff locate some links or articles on this topic? Thanks, Finnie

Too long :rofl: :rofl: Looking back at your first post in this thread, that is definitely a looong time! What a super accomplishment. :rofl: It must feel great, huh? (um, Bubbles?)

Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before. If the lucerne was truly the culprit for sick birds then wouldnt all the Nationals birds get sick not just ones from one team in one holding cage ? I think the SEQ team may have been the first penned. Again, will need someone else to confirm the details. Apparently they gorged themselves on, and werent used to it. Sickness can result from any change in diet. I find the lucerne chaff really good, birds love both the chaff and fresh lucerne. This is exactly what I was thinking. They are always telling us not to increase the fiber in our diets too suddenly!

Chookbreeder, are you saying that there are actually 5, not 4, alleles on this locus? (Normal, greywing, clearwing, dilute, and now this "blackeye") I have never heard it explained that way before.

Time for the final results of my experiment! After 1 month in the freezer, I thawed some of the veggie-biscuit mix in the microwave, and then left it to sit in the bowl on the counter for 3 hours. The purpose of microwaving it first is to make sure that the cooking/thawing doesn't hasten spoilage. After 3 hours, it was fine. So the next day, and until I used it up, I began feeding it to the birds. It really doesn't appear any different to the fresh vegetable mix I give them, seeing as it is all pulverized by the food processor either way. They never really did take to the chunks of bread loaf I was giving them. Mostly they would pull it out of the feeder cup and drop it on the floor of the cage. Sometimes it looked chewed, other times not. I'll still give them some, because eventually they will start eating it more, but I will also be adding it crumbled up to the veggies. And here is an example of how extremely lazy I am. I found that I would much rather thaw the mixture that was frozen together than the veg's and biscuit separate! Gee, saved myself one measly step! I also adapted the egg-biscuit recipe again to compensate for the dryness, and to increase the outcome. Here is the newest version: 2 cups whole cornmeal pinch salt 4 cups whole wheat flour 2T baking powder 6 T oil, any kind 8 eggs, including shells, crushed 1 1/2 cups water Preheat oven to 350. (or metric equivalent). Grease 13" x 9" pan. Mix the dry ingredients in a large bowl. Add all the wet ingredients and stir together. Spread in pan, bake 40 minutes, or until golden. Allow to cool. Slice or crumble. May be frozen. So, in summary, here is my current feeding plan: Seed mix, about 1 tablespoon per every 2 birds in the morning and again in the evening. Fresh, whole vegetable pieces and greens, varied, depending on what's on hand. These are clipped to the bars for gnawing. Usually about 1 per bird. Chunk of bread, 1 per cage and Veg/ biscuit mix, about 1 tablespoon per every 2 birds. (This consists of finely chopped carrot, broccoli, spinach and apple with a dash of lemon juice, to which I add some biscuit crumbles, some seeds, some powdered mineral vitamin supplement, and some moulting/conditioning aid.) I know they eat the veg/biscuit mix, because I can see it on their masks but it still seems like I am throwing it all away in the end. Macka is right, a little goes a long way, and I am trying to cut back portions to cut down on wastage. I guess that will be an ongoing process. Thanks for reading

i cant hand tame him because he wont go on my hand all he does is bite. its worse now, hes drawn blood It sounds like maybe you should start at square one. Stop putting you hand in his cage, and only offer him millet through the bars, (but only when he is being calm and quiet, like Birdluv said.) When you have to do something inside the cage, try to do it calmly, upsetting him as little as possible. Every time you upset him, you set his taming back a notch. To gain his trust, he has to get used to your presence and your voice. Talk to him as much as possible, especially as you approach or pass his cage, so he gets used to you walking around him and talking to him. At first, he won't trust you enough to even take millet through the bars, but if no other millet is available to him, and he really wants it, eventually he will get brave and come over and eat some. If he doesn't come to this point, don't expect him to ever like having you hand inside the cage with him. It's a matter of him getting over his fear, and trusting that you are not going to hurt him. This takes a long time, and much patience. Weeks or even months. But budgies are very social, and since he is alone in his cage, with only you for company, if you can gain his trust, he will be motivated to make friends with you eventually.

What a great illustration! I never understood how you guys could tell the spangles at this stage, but those two main tail feathers look very clear to me.

Did they come from the same place? If they are nestmates, then he is probably a double factor spangle, seeing as the other one is a single factor spangle. If he were a dark eyed clear, you would expect his siblings to show clearflight pied or recessive pied in some form. If you don't know what his parents/siblings look like, you will have to wait until he matures, and then you can tell by whether or not he gets iris rings and whether his cere stays pink or turns blue. An all white bird can be masking any kind of colors and mutations (well, not green). They are both beautiful, by the way, and I am particularly in love with the yf spangle one!

Thank you!! How very kind of you to take the time to compliment him. I just adore him, and he has the most fabulous, docile personality to match his beautiful coloring! Thank you again You can tell by the pictures what a cooperative model he is! Beautiful! :rofl:

I love this picture!

156. When you have a special song you made up to sing to the birds each morning, as a signal that you are about to uncover their cage. 157. When your family members go around humming the song because it's stuck in their head!

That's interesting. Her cere doesn't seem to have turned brown yet, either. Maybe she's just a late bloomer?

:rofl: :rofl: I was going to say " 3 out of my 5 children were born in the summer"

I really hesitate to suggest this; it makes me look mean I have a hen who will jump onto my finger, and then start biting like mad. I sometimes will position my hand beneath a perch, and then as soon as she bites, I'll raise my hand so the perch bumps her head. The idea is to get her to think the biting is causing the bumps, not my hand, as I don't want her to distrust me and my hand. It only seems to work short term. The reason she jumps onto my finger is to get millet. If she bites me, she gets bumped, if she bites the millet, she gets a treat- it only takes a few bumps before she just bites at the millet instead of me. But a day or two, or a week later, she's back to biting me again. I don't know if this would help you or not, but this hen bites me a lot softer now, and I haven't had to do this in a long time. (Also, keep in mind that the bump is only meant to annoy, not cause pain or injury! :laughter: )

It looks like maybe you are colony breeding? Perhaps the chick that is not cinnamon has a different father.