Finnie

So this one is the plum-eyed baby, right? And she is both dilute and cinnamon? It seems like the dilute must mask any effect of the cinnamon. So if you hadn't noticed her plum eyes when she hatched, no one would suspect she was cinnamon, would they? I guess that's good to know for when you breed her, so you can track where she sends the cinnamon gene.

Update: Finnie has 4 eggs now. I expected a 5th yesterday, but so far, still only four. 3 are showing fertile, and it's a little soon to tell on the fourth one, so all is going well there. The other 2 pairs have finally disturbed the millet and the shavings in their boxes. I can see the tiniest hint of tan at the bottom of Teagan's cere, so things are looking up for those two pairs. Hopefully we will see some action soon.

I think the 'location' she meant here means from what location on the bird's body is the pigment going to be removed. (For example, clear flight feather, or clear patch on head, or clear band on belly, etc)

Thank you for this, Martine. You're right, the chart indicates that they are all separate genes, found on different loci (or places, Dean) of the chromosome. Specifically, the recessive pied is found on the locus that is named "r+", the dominant pied is found on the locus "Pa+", and the clearflight pied is found on the locus "Pc+" If they were all different alleles of the same gene, there would only be one locus name for all of them. So, what this means in regards to my confusion about the combination pieds, is that you can have all three pieds in one bird. (And to answer my own question about combining all three pieds, well that would be a clearflight pied that was masking dominant pied.)

I'm so sorry to hear this, Ratzy! Don't blame yourself. It's not like you left a gap there knowingly, and sometimes things just come up that we didn't expect. It wasn't a bad plan, and in the future, as long as you check all the edges for gaps, this won't happen again. Sometimes we just can't forsee everything. I think the wood was a good idea, because if you had used wire, the hens could have been biting each other's toes through it, or something like that. I'm very glad to hear that both hens are okay, now.

Oh, what sad news. R.I.P., little Samara.

In a nutshell, I want to know if all the pied genes (other than spangle) are all multiple alleles of the same gene, or if they are separate genes, found on separate locations of the chromosomes. From what I've read and learned, I was always under the impression that the various pied genes were all found on the same locus, and were multiple alleles. I.e., you would have an order of dominance (or incomplete dominance) that went something like: dominant pied over clearflight pied over normal over recessive pied. And I always assumed that an individual bird could only have two copies of these genes. (Similar to the green/yellowface/blue series or the greywing/clearwing/dilute series.) BUT Occasionally, someone will phrase these things in a way that almost sounds like the different pieds genes are separate. For instance, the Dark Eyed Clear would be a SF or DF clearflight pied on one gene, and a visual (DF) recessive pied on the other gene. In that example, the bird actually has 4 pied genes: Clearflight/normal and recessive/recessive The combination of Dominant pied and recessive pied is also confusing. Sometimes it sound like people are saying that a combo pied is either SF or DF dom pied AND also has two copies of the recessive pied gene. So which is it? Are the clearflight pied, dominant pied and recessive pied genes all separate from each other? And if they are separate, why don't we have combinations of all 3 pieds? (By the way, I did try to search for this, but I couldn't find anything that states it one way or the other. It's almost like it is common knowledge, so nobody actually tells it. I think that's why I assumed they were all one gene. I did try looking at a genetics calculator, but I got confused! )

Well, here is another way of doing it. You could put 3 males and 3 females in one cage. Nice evenly matched pairs. Then the rest of the birds in the other cage. 4 males and 2 females. That gives you two matched pairs, the hens will be happy. The two odd cocks won't care, they will just buddy up with each other. I read early on that for unevenly matched flocks, as long as the number of males is equal to or greater than the number of females, you won't have any trouble. I think the trouble of "too many males to females" only comes into play when the number of males is so high, that they pester the only few available females. I think in your case, the two hens will have their pick of the 4 males, and once they choose, the leftover boys will eventually realize that all they have is each other, and from what I've seen of cocks, they're pretty agreeable with that. Of course, any way you do it, you will have to make sure that the cages are big enough for six birds, or they will bicker over perch space, food dishes, etc... Hope this helps.

I thought he looked opaline, as well, but he didn't appear to have a clear mantle, so I wasn't sure. Also, is there any possiblilty that he could be a clearwing spangle? Hey, Jack, looks-wise, I think he's very pretty. But, like Kaz, I also think he looks wise!

Donovan and Finnie have two eggs, now. First one laid on Sunday, second on Tuesday. They are often seen mating in the mornings, now. No signs of mating with the other two pairs, though. I've opened the door to Teagan's box, but she has not gone in yet. Aveline hasn't gone into hers yet either. Both boxes have smooth shavings and undisturbed millet. But there seems to be the slightest signs of ceres beginning to change, so I will just keep waiting.

Hi, Ratzy! So Marigold really was 'eggnant'! :hi: Here's hoping they don't crack any more eggs, and you will be able to put the first one in with some other eggs soon.

By the time your new pairs are done, you're not going to have much of an "off season", are you, Patrick?

Exciting to see all this progress, Tomlou!

I'm confused. I thought it was LF you didn't want. Where does the CF come in? :angel: And besides, what's wrong with LF anyway?

This guy looks familiar. Is he famous from another post? Maybe from when he was hatched or just bought, and we all said he was special? :angel: Who is that masked man?

Oh, I am so sorry to hear that you lost the first one. But I'm so glad that the second one is doing well, and the parents are great! I don't think you should check the nest box more than twice a day, though. That's what I've been told. You can make the parents nervous, and then they stop doing their job properly. (Eventually I did go up to three times a day, though ) Jason would be a cool name! Except I do believe people (and animals) tend to live up to their names, so maybe it would be a bad idea. Oh, I just noticed, where are the jelly bean pictures!?! :angel: :doh:

I don't think Nubbly or I actually said we think she is "eggnant" for sure. Just gave you some advice, in case. My advice, if she is eggnant, is to make sure your parents are okay with it before going ahead, because last time, didn't thay make you sell some of the babies you wanted to keep? I think you either need a plan that you and your parents are both happy with, or else you should throw away any eggs that are laid. I didn't know you were having hen-bickering issues. What is your hen to cock ratio? I think they will fight if there are not enough cocks to go around, and if there is not enough room. If you are getting another huge cage, you could separate boys from girls, and avoid some of these issues, maybe. :angel:

Thank you, Ratzy and Cory! Thank you, Harry, but now look what you have done!! You have caused me to go and do a search to find out what a rainbow budgie is, and now I am compelled to add 'rainbow' to my list of mutations/combinations that I must try to achieve!! :glare: Here are some links I have found: UK Forum, rainbow budgies Sabrina Kaiser website (in German, but great photos) UK Forum also BBC Topic on Rainbows I guess a true rainbow is not supposed to have cinnamon, or any pied. It's supposed to be yf2 opaline clearwing. I'm not good at telling the difference between the dilute varieties, so I don't think I would be successful at getting the true clearwing in there. But I could do it in a greywing, and hope it looked close enough. Actually, in my first clutch ever, I came very close to producing a yf2 opaline greywing. If you look in my signature (at least, until I change it ) you will see the 3 chicks I kept from that clutch. One is a yf2 greywing male who is split for opaline, one is an opaline greywing, and one is a yf2 opaline normal, who could be split for greywing. It's too bad I didn't let those parents go a second round before I sold them. Anyway, I'm sure I can use these four new birds to achieve a rainbow, especially if I pair them with the chicks from my siggy. So thanks for the idea, Harry. My husband will, I'm sure, appreciate the extra breeding I will now need to do!

"Eggnant" - I love it!! As for what to do, I guess it depends on whether you want to breed more chicks or not. She only had the one round last time, right? So another round now wouln't hurt. But if you don't want her to, some suggestions are to remove anything she could see as nesting material, and switch around all the perches and toys to throw her off balance. Also to cover the cage more at night to shorten her daylight hours. I wouldn't jump to the tumor conclusion. Unless, of course, it swells up abnormally. Right now I think it looks okay.

i think you're right. T.T thank you for your advice. Are you sure she is a hen? Yes.this picture was taken 5 months ago. now it is certain that it's a hen. By the way, I forgot to add, all three are very beautiful! I am partial to spangles.

Yes! I am learning! This is the same as I was thinking! (I tried to work it out before I looked at anyone's replies.) Nerwin, do you think the cock could be both dominant pied and clearflight pied? Is there a way to tell?

Are you sure she is a hen?

okay, so after a week of trying to call my beautiful new girls 'Athos' and 'Porthos', I can't stand it any more! They are getting girl names. Athos (in front) will be 'Athena' and Porthos will be 'Portia' :party0011: Look! Portia is growing a new flight feather. All four of them are moulting right now, and they look so cute with their pinnie heads! :happy-dancing:

Is this the plum eyed one in the front? I can almost believe I can see a difference, but I think I must be imagining it. Also, looking at the cere shot in the prior post, is it a hen?

That's great news, Tomlou!! :party0011: :happy-dancing: :bliss: