Finnie

Here's a little background on the chick in question: I was hand raising her, along with three other chicks, from about 3weeks old until they were about 6 weeks old. At that point, the other three were pretty much refusing any formula, but this particluar one stlll wanted 3 meals a day, and not only that, she was constantly begging from her cage mates. And she would typically sit a little bit hunched, and a little fluffed, which was how she looked while she did her begging. But otherwise, she seemed fine, so I started backing off on her hand feeding. At 47 days old, she suddenly took a turn for the worse, lost her coordination and ability to perch, and stopped eating. This actually happened during a feeding session. Eating normally at the beginning of the meal, then just nibbling/pretending to eat, and that's when I noticed she looked bad. And she also took off flying, but crash landed on the floor, which she had never done before. (Fully flighted) When I picked her up, she was so thin and "odd" that I thought she was about to die in my hand right that moment. And I noticed that she was extremely thin, and her crop was empty. I force fed her a little calcivet from a dropper, and put her in a hospital cage with a warm lamp. She perked up and seemed fine for several hours. But when the next feeding came around, she again only nibbled on the food, and it looked like it was all dribbling back into the cup. Again, she seemed to kind of collapse, and I thought I was going to lose her. I got the idea that she was unable to eat at all, and was starving. So I tried to crop feed her, but once I got the needle down her throat, the plunger wouldn't depress! It was a last ditch effort to save her life, and it didn't work, and I just knew she would die. I put her back in the hospital cage, where she just sat on the floor, and I waited for the end. Two hours later, she was able to eat, and again 2 more hours later. She lived through the night, and with constant hand feeding over the next several days, I got her weight up from 27g to about 31g. She went from sulking on the floor of the cage at 47 days old, to perching and sleeping on one foot at 49 days old. She made visible improvment almost hourly, and within a few more days, she didn't need the heat lamp any more, and after a week, she went back in the cage with the other babies. Since then I've been slowly cutting back on her hand feedings, weaning her more slowly this time, because I felt that it was my fault, and that I must have starved her before. So now she's 65 days, (it's been a while ) and she's been doing just awesome, and is down to only one feeding a day. She obviously eats enough of the regular foods that I provide in the cage in order to maintain her weight of 30 to 31g. There is only one problem left. When she was sick, her beak and cere color looked bad, her shape and posture looked bad, her feathers looked fluffed and horrible. When she got better, all that went away except for the fluffed feathers on her back. They aren't fluffed all the time, just when she's at rest on a perch. When she's active and alert, eating, playing, flying, all her feathers are smooth and normal. But when she just sits, her back is fluffed. Up to now, I've been assuming that it would eventually smooth out. But fluffed feathers always means a sick budgie, doesn't it? Can I expect it to take longer than this for the feathers to stop fluffing? Perhaps it's just a bad habit she might have picked up? Does anybody have any experience with a recovering chick staying fluffed? Now that she's almost weaned again, I'm watching her very closely for any signs of a relapse, but so far I'm not seeing anything. I guess I'm looking for anybody who has had a budgie with fluffed feathers that turned out okay. (I'm a little worried she's going to stay fluffed for life.)

Can a plum eyed chick have its eyes turn to black before it hatches? Or phrased another way, can a cinnamon chick be born with black eyes? I asked this question in my thread about Mystery's chicks, but it got buried in there, and I don't think anybody noticed it. Besides, now I have another nest of plum eyed chicks, and one that had black eyes on hatching is starting to look like it might be cinnamon. (But I had written down black with a question mark, so maybe it was born with iffy colored eyes.) So has anybody else experienced this? Is it a hard and fast rule that all cinnamons will have plum eyes?

Ha Ha! You know how it is with new moms, they get a little chilly, and they put three sweaters and a blanket on their baby! :lol: You are doing great.

Oh, well if he is indoors, then you don't need a heat pad for him. He will be fine at room temp.

Mine don't snuggle up to sleep at night. They are jealous of their favorite sleeping spots, and don't share! Do you guys who have outdoor aviaries know whether yours snuggle up on cold nights? Vicky, is your little guy an outdoor budgie?

Hi Art, welcome to the forum! He sure looks like a nice bird. And I think he's really lucky to have an owner like you.

I think he looks like a boy, But I have had a few that I got wrong. (What started out as just having rings around the nostrils, eventually became a whole whitish cere.) But yours doesn't really look like it's going to go that way.

The picture was taken before moving to a new place. Now the birds can't see the outside view partly. Here is the topic where Hans has asked all these same questions before. Old Topic And I agree with GB, if we ask for a photo of your set-up so we can help you tweak it and make it better, it is an absolute waste of time to get us to comment on a photo of what your set up is NOT like! People are happy to help, but will usually give up if they feel like their advice is not being considered. Have you done any further research on breeding budgies since you started having these problems 8 months ago?

Hi Budgie gal. It's been a week, how's he doing?

Lion, many people have accidently starved their budgies because they thought that a full seed dish meant that it wasn't being eaten, and so didn't need refilling. Not saying that's what you have inadvertantly done, just wondering if that's possible, and wanting to warn anyone else who might be reading. It's important to keep giving new, FRESH seed, even if they don't eat it all, because sometimes they will only pick out their favorites, and will allow themselves to starve to death before they eat the "reject" seeds. Also, if a dish is full of good seed, but has a layer of empty husks on the top, the dummies don't usually dig down to get what's underneath. What Kaz said about urates instead of regular poop, it basically means that they haven't been eating. So don't get the idea that they are not sick. If they aren't sick yet, they are about to be!

Ratzy and Hezz, Squeak has a good point, your comments are pushing the limits of rudeness. We should state our differences of opinions without using insults or threats of physical violence. But Squeak, I don't see how we can support and encourage someone who has purposely gone against all the advice he actually sought out on his own and ignored. Besides, Pops doesn't sound like someone who needs defending. He sounds like he is unbothered by our opposing positions, and is going to do what he wants regardless. I'm actually glad that he hasn't run away from the forum. I would like to know how this turns out. I haven't stated any of my opinions about the situation yet, but I have been feeling that Gladiator would have stood a better chance of survival if she had not been given a mate. Breeding is stressful on a bird's body, and I have seen hens lose condition and get sick and run down while feeding chicks. I think she was better off sitting on infertile eggs, and I hate to think of what may happen once she has mouths to feed.

Congratulations! He (I think maybe) looks very cute! You must be over the moon! I'm glad to hear that he's eating, happy, and playful! Maybe the breeder is one who handles his chicks a lot, and so it is settling into its new home easily? But I noticed something that I want to point out, not to alarm you, but to give you an idea of how very young this budgie is. In the two photos above, you can see that his tail pin feathers still have the sheaths on part of them. I think I read above that he is only one week out of the nest? It looks to me like he may be only around 4 weeks old. Anyway, you have said that you have seen him eating, and that is important. When my babies come out of the nest, I leave them with their parents for one week, and then once I'm sure the parents have taught the young fledglings to eat by example, I take the parents away, and then watch the chicks for another week, to make ABOSLUTELY POSITIVE that they can eat on their own, and not lose too much weight. So I just want to suggest that you keep an eye on his eating, to make sure he is actually cracking the seed and eating it, and not just playing with it. (I think I see empty husks in the photo, so that's great.) Also, did the breeder send you home with a sample of the seed that he's used to eating? Let him settle in for a few days at least, before you switch him over (gradually) to a different seed, if you aren't able to keep using the breeder's brand. (A good sign that he is eating properly is that his poops will be small, black and circular, not flat runny and greenish.) Did the breeder mention to you any other foods that the chick is used to eating? I keep quite a few different foods in my breeders' cages, and the chicks learn to eat those. You don't want to be leaving something out that the chick has learned to rely on. It's quite possible that he has already been introduced to vegetables. As for the millet, again, if the breeder was always supplying millet in the breeding cage, you will want to gradually take it out of the chick's main diet, not just deprive him of millet right off the bat. You have plenty of time to switch from millet as a main meal to millet as a snack only. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. It sounds like everything is going great, and you are getting a lot of good advice on becoming a new budgie owner. I just wanted you to know that his eating is very important. He is still actually growing his feathers, so he needs his nutrition, and especially while he is in his transition phase. Enjoy your new "parenthood"!

Hi Vicky, welcome to the forum. I can't wait to see what you come home with!

It looks like a hen to me. Not being able to balance, and going to the floor instead of the perch sounds pretty serious to me. That doesn't usually go along with normal poops and eating fine. How is her weight? Have you felt her keel bone as was suggested? It may be crucial to get some food into her. I think a trip to an avian vet may be in order, because what you describe doesn't sound good.

Normal is 18 to 21 days to hatch, and sometimes they are a little late. 21 days from May 13 is only today. As you are pretty sure that the fertile one was the one she actually laid in the nest, what day did she lay that one? I think there is still hope.

She's very beautiful, and I love her name! If I ever saw a spangle budgie in a store, there is no way I would come out without it! You are so lucky. I'm glad you have a budgie again, Birdluv.

The Hen from PAIR 3 has laid her 6th egg today. so far 7 eggs . well i have given up hope on PAIR 7 she has laid another egg of the perch I hope the one fertile one hatches for you soon. Even if she only has one chick, it is that much more experience for her, so maybe she will be a better breeder next time around.

Hi kcnessness, If you could start a new topic about your bird, then you can give us more details and we can ask you questions specific to your bird, without taking over StormySky's thread. And in the meantime, you can read over the taming articles in the budgie FAQs section for some ideas.

Ah, I see. Good thinking.

Just a few inches why? You might want to consider treating your other birds for scaley face mites as a preventative measure.

Oh, thanks, I didn't get it the way you meant it. Well, just because both of her parents were grey factored, doesn't mean that she's double factored. If one of them was only single factor, she could still be single factor. (I didn't think Gandalf's photo looked cinnamon, but knowing that it's sometimes hard to tell in photos, I would have believed it, lol.)

If she is a 2010 bird, she hasn't had much time to prove herself to be a bad breeder, to be given up on. I kind of don't think that would be a reason for them to get rid of her. It's more likely that this is her first time breeding. And maybe she just doesn't know what to do yet. I would just watch her and see if her eggs hatch, and maybe she will turn out to be a better mother than she is a layer. But if she turns out to be a bad mother, that doesn't mean she will stay a bad mother. I've had a first time hen that let all her chicks die, but the next time around she did a fabulous job. So, try not to stress her out with your own worrying, but be prepared to step in to help her out if she needs it.

This is incorrect information for quarantine procedures and certainly not what you should be listening to. When stressed a disease thats carried and not showing symptoms comes out. Stress is........ being caught being sold being moved new home new food new friends new relationships to sort out, new home and breeding I agree with Kaz, and I would also add, if she keeps her aviary that immaculate, it's possible that her bird might not have built up a lot of immunities to things, so normal germs that your own birds carry might be more detrimental to him. But don't be cross with yourself. You listened to her advice because you trusted that she wouldn't steer you wrong. I think its good that you didn't put him into the main aviary yet. Just don't give them a nest box until the normal 30 days or more quarantine period is over, and by then he should be over any stress from moving etc.

No quarantine? I once had a lutino cock who had such dark eyes, that I couldn't tell they were red. But he did throw red eyed chicks.

" Hen = Cin Grey/Blue x Opaline Cina Grey" By this I take it you mean that Gandalf is Opaline cinnamon grey? And the hen is also cinnamon grey? I guess I didn't realize that Gandalf was cinnamon. Are the chick's eyes plum? Because if the hen and the cock are both cinnamon, then all of the chicks will be cinnamon. As far as the grey and blue color goes, the grey is a color adding factor, like violet. They are still blue series birds, but they have the grey factor added. So technically, we don't say "grey split to blue". (Although from what I've read, a lot of people do say it that way, even though they are wrong. The blue gene and the grey gene are on different locations of the chromosome.) So, you have two blue birds, and they each have at least one grey factor. I think, but am not sure, that you can't tell visually whether they are single or double factor grey. If they are both single factor grey, then the chicks will be 25% double factor grey, 50% single factor grey, and 25% no grey. If one is double factor grey, and one is single factor, then you get 50% double factor grey chicks and 50% single factor grey chick. And then if both parents are DF grey, all the chicks will also be double factor grey. So for you to have gotten a blue chick (not grey), then your parent birds must both be single factor grey. A new question for the experts: If a chick is grey, will it be obvious as soon as it feathers up, or will the blue show up first, and then the grey?