Finnie

This sounds a lot like a case I had, where the parents fed the first two chicks fine, and then they ignored each subsequent chick and allowed them to die. The last one they even threw out of the box. I took that one out just like you have done, and raised it myself. I figured that if there was something wrong with it, it would not survive, but she survived just fine and is now 1 1/2 years old. I was advised by a vet (and some here on the forum) that sometimes the parents will limit the number of chicks they raise based on how abundant they think their food supply is, or on how fit/proper breeding condition the parents are, not necessarily due to a defect in the chick. (I had to tweak my food management practices then, and I think they are better now. ) But back to your questions. I was told to feed such a young chick every half hour at first, which I now believe was overkill, and unnecessary. Every two hours will probably suffice, but keep this up through the night for the first week, or however long you can stand to lose the sleep. The instructions on the can of Kaytee Exact are pretty thorough, so just keep reading them over and over until you have the routine down pat and memorized. It will tell you that for chicks aged 2-5 days old, to make the formula thinner. I fed this to mine using a plastic pipette, since the beak is very small at first. Then we graduated to a plastic syringe as the chick grew, and the formula was made thicker. Eventually they learn to eat from a spoon. I use a half teaspoon measure for that. It doesn't take a lot to fill them up when they are very tiny. As long as you can see that he swallowed some, it's fine. As they grow, the fuller you can make them, the better. They say not to overfill or you can make them regurgitate and risk aspirating into the lungs. But moms in the nest fill their chicks up tight as drums, so I don't worry about overfilling. I am usually more concerned that they get as much nutrition as possible to support their growth. Especially if they swallow air, so that the amount formula they get is not exactly a whole crop full. (Some swallow more air than others, but there's not a whole lot you can do about that. Maybe work on how you hold the syringe. But I never try to squeeze air out, that can be dangerous.) A thermometer is essential for making sure the formula is not too hot or too cold. I have pictures around somewhere of how I measure, mix, and keep the formula warm throughout the feeding. But I tend to go on long winded, so I will only dig those up for you if you want them. Do you have a hygrometer? I believe the humidity of the brooder is meant to be around 50%. Hygrometers can be found in the reptile section of pet stores. (I use a mug with a wet wash cloth in it to supply humidity.) One more thing, if you can find a small stuffed animal to put into your brooder, it will substitute for the warm bodies that your baby would be snuggling up to in a regular nest. Hope this helps. Good luck.

This one's a little trickier because of the lack of markings. At least we can tell it's a sky blue. Also looks male to me. And looking around the back of his neck, I think I see opaline. I also think that is must be a dilute, due to its paleness of color and faint grey markings I think I imagine I can see. Although combining cinnamon and greywing would also make it that pale, too. (I'm assuming you bred this chick, so you know the parents?) Also, it looks like it could be a dominant pied, since your other one is dom. pied. Maybe this one might even be a double factor dom pied? So perhaps it is an opaline dilute dominant pied sky blue male.

You mentioned in your other thread about leaning towards her being a girl. In this photo the cere looks to be blue, which for a recessive pied would mean girl, because recessive pied boys keep a pink cere. So if this is a blue/white cere, then she's probably a girl. But if it's a lavender/pink cere, then boy. (It's hard to tell by the lighting of the photo.)

They are very nice. How did you get them to line up in color order like that?

So how did it go at the vet?

Well, I've been a little shy to post my website on here. When I first started it, over a year ago, it had such little content, that I thought it was kind of lame. It still needs to have more pages added with information to help my buyers, and FAQs that they usually ask me. I have been told that I should make pages of articles and just regurgitate everything I know about budgies. I guess the idea behind that is so when people google for budgie info, my site might come up. But that stuff is already found all over the internet, so why do we need another site for it? Besides, I have a link on there to BBC, and I always tell people they can learn anything they want to know about budgies on here. But people do tell me that they enjoy reading my (not so) daily updates and looking at the photos as they wait for their chick to be old enough to go home. So at least my blog page is very long. That's the page I'm linking to. Newest posts are at the top, so it might make more sense to scroll down to the bottom, and then read up. But really, unless you are a glutton for punishment and want to read my endless prattle, you might only want to use your mouse and go up and down really fast and just catch a few photos. http://budgiedin.wee...nd-growing.html

I think that at that age, the mother can handle feeding them by herself. That would be about the time where she starts to spend less time in the box, anyway, and they will already be learning to eat some seed. Do you do twice daily nest checks? Because you would be able to see whether she was feeding them well, and if not, then you could step in and supplement feed them. (Without removing them) Since you are an experienced hand feeder, you could remove them from the nest if you wanted to. But as that is a big commitment, I wouldn't recommend it to a novice, except as a last resort. You might find that a baby that is three weeks or older might not want to have anything to do with hand feedings. Those can usually make do with what they can eat on their own plus what they can beg off from their mother and siblings. When they are introduced to formula at two weeks old, it usually only takes one day before they recognize the formula as a good thing to eat. Then you will find they gobble it up like piggies. It would be nice if the father came back. I'm sorry for your loss. Do you have any way to make sure the mother can't get loose, too?

He or she is very nice. I have one like that who I named Ariel, because where the blue and white meet on the stomach area looks like puffy clouds in a blue summer sky. Just an idea of name lines you could be thinking along.

No.........he is coming amongst a stud I birds I have bought from a breeder getting out of show budgies. I am told he has bred some ripper spangles. If a melanistic pops up here and there it will be by accident not me trying to breed any. Well if he is any indication, then the rest of the lot are probably also quite nice additions to your flock.

Are you starting a melanistic line, Kaz? Will you be getting others, too?

Well I should say not! Seeing as that vet was going to put him down just because he didn't have a home! It's very kind of you to go out of your way to help this bird. I wish you luck.

Hey Flip. I'm sorry, I also have to weigh in on the side of the parent. (Seeing as I am one, with 5- teens on up into college age. ) You sound quite busy, and about to get busier, once you get into college. Here in the U.S., it is more common for students to live away at college, although some commute from home. So that means leaving your bird home for Mom to take care of. I can see why she might not want to care for two. And if they think the house is a zoo now, wait until you are producing more baby animals. Then it really WILL be a zoo! I notice that you spend a fair amount of time on the forum. You could always spend that time training Sparta, instead. And I agree with Kaz, there is no money to be made from this. It is more of an expensive hobby. It sounds like you have a pretty low opinion of your mom's intelligence, if you think she will fall for that one.

Yeah, I still think male, too. And it looks like he's getting some pin feathers on his head, so about the time they molt is also when their cere goes from pink to blue. Nerwen, that's a really nice example of a baby boy.

Hi Ahsanmeer, I think it would be hard to know what the outcomes would be from those pairs, unless you knew something more about the hens. Since neither cock is an ino, you won't get any ino chicks, unless the cocks are split to ino. (You will be able to know, though, that any male chicks will all be split to ino.) 1. Greywing + lutino hen: All green chicks, unless the lutino hen is split to blue. All the chicks will be split to greywing, but there won't be any visual greywing chicks unless the lutino hen is masking or split to greywing. (Do you know if any of her parents was a greywing?) 2. Normal Green + lutino hen: Again, all green chicks, unless both parents are split to blue. The chicks might all be normals, but if you have no idea what the hens are masking, then you could be surprised by things like dominant pied or spangle. And there is also the possibility that the parents could be split to recessive mutations, or that the cocks could be split to sex-linked mutations. So even though it appears on the surface that you will get all normal green chicks, it is still wide open for unkowns.

She is a normal cobalt, right? I know her photo is around the forum somewhere, but having it in this thread might be nice. So dominant pied sky blue cock X normal cobalt hen gives you: 25% normal sky blue 25% dominant pied sky blue 25% normal cobalt 25% dominant pied cobalt. And then you might be able to expect some surprises if both parents are split to matching recessive genes, or if the father is split to sex-linked genes. (Those would show up in some of his daughters.)

Antibiotics usually work quite quickly, and we have to be told to finish out the whole round of medications because so many people think that if they (or their pet) is better, why keep giving the meds? (The answer is because you might SEEM better, but the population of bacteria is still being killed, and if you stop the meds, it will re-flourish.) But in your case, the antibiotics weren't working, so giving them longer wouldn't help. Did you tell the vet that the meds weren't working? Because that would be an indication to him to try something else- maybe the problem was not respiratory infection. If the whole time was spent treating the wrong thing, then the real problem was left unchecked, and could be what killed your budgie. I wouldn't go blaming the vet unless you felt he was constantly giving bad advice or making you feel as though he wasn't taking you seriously. (I'm not getting that impression from you.) This can be tricky, because doctors and vets know a lot more about medical things than we do, so how are we supposed to decide when to trust their judgement, or when to question it? We are pretty much limited to our impression of the vet's competence and attitude. Sometimes, a sick budgie can't be saved. But you should comfort yourself knowing that you did what you could to try.

They will only be able to make combination pieds if both of them are split to recessive pied. You should start a new thread for this question.

There is no photo? But if you mean the one in your avatar, that one is a male.

This is a good example of how an overexposed photo can make a male look female. The area I circled in red appears to be the right shade of blue for a female. But like Neville said, there would be white with it, too, not just the pale blue. And the area I circled in green is the male shade of blue, which females don't get. This is also a good example of how the "rings around the nostrils" theory could throw people into confusion. Males can often have a two-tone blue cere, and the lighter part can look like "rings around the nostrils". I agree with every one who said male. I thought this photo was too good to pass up for an opportunity of demonstrating what to look for.

Flip, I would like to add, if you can find a double factor violet bird, you will increase your chances of producing a visual violet. Since two cobalts will only produce about 50% of chicks also being cobalt, which is needed for the visual violet to show up. A single factor violet would then give it's violet gene to only half of the chicks, and that gives you an expectation (roughly) of 25% visual violets. If you found a cock that was homozygous for violet, then he would give the violet factor to ALL the chicks, and then your percentage for visual violets goes back up to 50%. But knowing if he's DF violet can be the tricky part. They are supposed to be less common. The breeder should know, though, based on the parents of the cock, if this is a possibility. P.S. I forgot to mention, wait until your hen is at least one year old. I did the math, and if you wait 6-9 months, your two month old hen will still only be 8 months old.

I saw your question yesterday, Tania, but I didn't know the answer for you. Then as it happens, before bed I was reading a book (Genetics For Budgerigar Breeders by T.G.Taylor and C.Warner, Iliffe Books, Ltd, 1961), and I was on the chapter on pied varieties. This quote from page 89 explains it: "At one time it was thought that Clearflights and Dutch Pieds were the result of separate mutations, and from an exhibition standpoint these birds are certainly quite distinct from one another. It is now almost certain, however, that the same mutation is responsible for the production of both varieties, and that the differences between them are due to the selection of different modifying genes by breeders." It's been a long time since that was written, and I'm wondering if, after this long, the differences might be minimal now, and people have just started using the terms interchangeably. But I recently had a question about 'Frosted Pieds', and what I dug up suggests that people do like to use separate terms for birds that look different, even when they are the same mutation. (Frosted pied, by the way, turned out to be a variation of the Clearflight or Dutch Pied mutation.)

Yes

Agree with Rachelm. Does it look like this? Found this photo in this thread: http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=9575 Also in that thread was this creamino, which was incorrectly labeled as a lutino:

I agree with Flip-trainer.

I agree Me too.