Finnie

How are they coming along, Nadene?

How old did she live to be?

Thankyou i am a member of the talk budgies forum they help me out alot Oh, I thought it sounded like you had a breeder friend in real life. Be careful what you read on that other forum. A lot of people on there give out misinformation, and if often goes uncorrected. So it's hard to know who to believe.

I'm pretty sure I got you mixed up with someone else where I read their breeding birds won't eat any veggies, sorry. I don't think you've stuffed up. It sounds like you've been doing all the right things (up to the multiple cocks part) and your pair just hasn't cooperated this time around. That happens. Especially if it's the birds first time breeding. I went through the same thing with the first pairs I put down. They were even courting and everything, but they wouldn't go anywhere near their nest boxes. I tried again a couple of months later, and it all worked out fine. Although I think it helped that I bought an experienced cock and was able to put down three pairs instead of two, and the maiden ones got encouraged by the experienced guy who knew what he was doing. But who knows, maybe that wasn't necessary, and they would have done fine that next time anyway. So if your hen hasn't gotten to the darker brown stage yet, then maybe she will work it out now, and if not, she probably will next time.

I think based on your description of her cere just starting to turn brown, that you could leave them in the breeding cage for now, and see if it works out. Give them a chance to bond and start mating before you put the box back on. I have heard of hens that are so eager to lay, that they skip the mating part and go right into the box. (Your hen doesnt seem that eager, but then again, if she isn't interested in the male, you don't want her trying to do it all without him! ) If you see signs of them courting, and you want to give them access to the box, then I'd wait another week to ten days to see if she starts laying. If there is no sign of her being interested at all after that, then I would reevaluate at that time. You mentioned before (unless I've gotten you mixed up with a different person) that they refuse to eat vegetables. If you haven't already been beefing up their diet prior to putting them down to breed, you should definitely be putting greens, carrots, egg biscuit mix, soft food, and things like that in their cage, so they can start getting used to them. This is actually something that should be done ahead of time, so that they are already physically fit to breed. And without this type of diet, it could be one reason why you aren't seeing much action. An abundance of food, and abundance of water, and longer daylight hours are triggers for birds to go into breeding condition. So trying all those things (and I like to play a CD of water sounds, too) could help, but it may take some time. Which, depending on how long you've owned them, they may need anyway for settling in. That's one reason why I asked how large the breeding cage is. If it's large enough to live in long term, then you can do all this while they are in there, but maybe not add the box until you think they are ready. If it's a small breeding cage, and they don't settle right down to breeding this time around, then yes, move them out to the large cage, and give them several months on an upgraded diet.

Best of luck with him, he certainly seems like a sweetie! What a funny photo, it really does look as though he was sent to the Time Out Corner! «Punished»

Nice progress! I'd be mindful, though, of teaching him to be comfortable playing on the floor. Huge danger of being stepped on down there, even when you think you are being careful.

Of the other nests that have finished hatching, how old are those chicks? You might still be able to foster the eggs to them, if the youngest is within a few days old.

Well, that would be the difference, in red. You wouldn't be letting the hen do her choosing in a breeding cage with a nest box. It would be in a large flight cage, in more like a community setting. More diffuse, and less chance for aggression. Although you still probably wouldn't want to leave a lone hen with a bunch of males for more than a few days.

Finnie, thank you very much for the answer If there are different modifying genes, this means, that we have a multiple allele series? NO, modifying genes are different genes, not allelomorphic to the same locus. Can we say, that we have 2 phenotypes of the same mutation? I'm not sure if the term phenotype can be used that way. It's more like there is variation within the same phenotype. But they are not recognized by WBO yet, right? I'm not sure about WBO, but apparently an American judge reclassified a bird to the Frosted class, so they must be recognized? I found some obscure stuff when I googled "Frosted Pied Budgies". And so, it's another member of a multiple allele series on Pi, Pb locus? There are no multiple alleles on the Pi locus or the Pb locus See the chart half way down on this page: http://en.wikipedia....colour_genetics Sorry, I don't know if I'm being helpful, or making it more confusing. lol!

I hope it all goes well for you. From reading your other threads, it sounds like you have a breeder friend helping you out. That's nice.

I'm quite sure the FAQ never says anywhere to put two cocks with a hen in a breeding cage! You are asking for a big fight that way. I would take one of the cocks out right away. (If she doesn't seem to have a preferred one, then I don't think it matters which one you take and which one you leave.) I would also close up the door to the nest box, so she can see into it, but not go into it. Then you need to wait for her and the cock to make friends and court. Usually with mine that happens instantly, and I see mating within the first five minutes. But you have probably thrown them off by putting in two cocks. And sometimes like you have guessed, the hen just isn't ready, and it will take a while. (Until she is ready, she will not allow any advances.) Since her cere was already medium brown when you started this, she may be past optimal breeding condition. You might have to wait for her to go out of condion and then back in again later. Maybe by then she will have bonded with the mate you choose for her. Is the breeding cage large enough for them to live in that long, or do you need to move them to a larger living space while you are waiting? Waiting is the name of the game, here. They will do things according to their own schedule, not ours. And breeding isn't something to rush into. So while you are doing all this waiting, you can be reading up more about what you will need to know. The more you can learn ahead of time, the more smoothly the whole process will go for you.

Cute video! I don't think she was trying to fly, so much as excercising her wings. They do that when they are still in the nest box. It's funny, you hear what sounds like a little motor going in there. And I always think their first flight is funny, too. It's like they just take off without realizing they could do it, and then they fly around and around, cuz they don't know how to land! (I think she looks like a hen, too.)

I almost wonder if you are being too patient? Are you using millet? It's a good incentive, and you can make him work a little harder for his rewards, by not letting him have a taste unless he steps fully onto your finger. Then build up how long you require the standing before the reward. Bird Junky has some training articles he has posted recently, have you read those? And the ones in our FAQ section?

Your bird reminds me of something RIP wrote about the possiblity of one of her birds eating a lot of sunflower seeds while it was molting. Here is the quote, and I found it on this thread: http://forums.budgie...showtopic=28595

I'm very sorry for your loss, JustBeaky.

Hey Maddy, I diidn't want to run away with this in Robyn's thread, so I'm bringing it up over here: I wanted to ask you, did you try giving that hen fake eggs, to teach her that they are inedible? I'm not sure if it will work with your hen, but it did with one of mine that was an egg breaker. You can buy plastic white budgie eggs, or I have heard of some people using marbles.

Have you read this thread already? It has a quiz you can test yourself on, with the answers given towards the end. http://forums.budgie...opic=22804&st=0 Some people say that you can use shape and texture of cere and size of nostrils, but from what I gather, those things are not accurate. Going by color is best, but photos can be misleading. The same chick can look male or female in different photos, depending on the lighting and the angle of the photo. I usually hold my chicks up and try to look at them from all angles and in dark AND bright lighting. The really whitish females are easy to tell, and the very solid pink males are also easy. But there seem to be a lot of middle of the road ones that can and do go either way. For those, I usually have to wait until either the white or the pink takes a stronger foothold.

It sounds like you really don't even need to buy any more formula. I wouldn't bother giving him water with the syringe. The way I look at it, parent raised chicks in the nest don't get any supplemental water until they fledge and learn to use the water drinker. They get enough moisture in the food their parents feed them. Same with moisture in the hand rearing formula. I haven't had a baby budgie yet that didn't figure out how to get their own drink of water. Have you introduced him to bird baths yet? Give him a shallow one, and he will play around in it. He will also drink it. But don't leave it in there too long, or it will get soiled. Glad the beak skin thing turned out okay.

Hi. I assume that his bleeding has stopped, since you said the blood is dry? And the hole on the cere is also not bleeding? Because first priority would be to stop any bleeding. (Ground pepper applied with pressure makes an excellent styptic.) Set up a small cage for him for a hospital. Cover it on the top and three sides with a sheet or blanket or something, and place a warm lamp close to the open side. Supply seed and water, but also clip a piece of millet near the perch, so he has easy access when he wants it. If he's not hurt too badly, just providing comfort like this can help him heal. If he is hurt too badly, then you will have to decide whether to hurry him to a vet for emergency care. (I've never had a budgie hurt so bad it needed that. I don't know what a vet could do. Stitches maybe?)

Neville, do you think that in photos 4,8 and 10, the male looks like he has spangle wing markings?

I would say that the color of the food is definitely going to color the droppings. Presumably up to now, they have been the same color as the hand rearing formula, haven't they? And probably the same consistency, until he is eating more seeds. My hand fed chicks don't start having normal poop consistency until they start eating regular foods (seeds, veggies, biscuit), and not just formula. How old is he now? When will you be able to get more formula? Or are you thinking that by the time the store gets it in, he will be weaned and not need it anymore? I don't force wean mine. I just keep offering it to them, and they let me know when they really don't want it anymore. Maybe he's at that point, and you won't need to buy more formula.

I don't usually check for fertility until there are at least 5 eggs. And then I only expect the three oldest to show signs of fertility, not the two newest. So don't get discouraged, it's still early yet.

I thought these were the parents? Do you have them all housed together?

Ditto what Maddy said about the gender. As for the pied, we need to see the whole bird. What do the wing markings look like? Dommie pieds have mostly normal, with clear flights, and recessives have random spotty markings, but they all can vary a lot.