nubbly5

Hey! Good to see you are back and to hear that the birds are on the mend. Show birds can be a real stress and sometimes seems like it's not worth it. We all know how you feel there GB. Just take a few deep breaths and slow down your plans to get to the top! Without that pressure losing birds is not such a big deal and you will eventually get there. I just get the feeling that you want it to happen straight away and that when things set you back (as they will with show birds), your plans get derailed and your motivation takes a plunge. Enjoy the birds for what they are and don't place as big an emphasis on winning - that WILL get you unstuck really fast. Slow and steady wins the race. And sometimes the path there is long and winding! Main thing though is to take care of you and if it IS too stressy then maybe show birds are not for you.

Umm sorry to be pedantic but isn't this a budgerigar forum?

I have found the "potential" for normal birds so far has far outweighed the "potential" for deformities. Inbreeding concentrates the number of similar genes and reduces genetic diversity amongst individuals. An interesting book on pedigree dogs indicates that most pedigree dogs breed have very little genetic difference between individuals within breeds as over the years inbreeding has been carried out to such an extreme to concentrate certain traits (squashed faces, coat types etc etc). The issue really is that as RIP mentioned you are not aware of the "unwanted traits" that are also being concentrated at the same time. It really is not like your whole stud is going to collapse because you have paired a brother and sister together. There is a very small chance that you are going to see something unwanted (like feather dusters for that matter) but most likely not, especially if you've paired a brother and sister from a pair that was genetically very different in the first place. The only thing that I have been thinking of recently though is I wonder how much genetic difference is already within our budgerigar population. Maybe not very much considering how they have developed over time.

Gosh those markings look brown though! Although greywing on green markings can tend to look a bit brown too. He's definitely not a greygreen though Finnie! Cheek patches although pied out a bit, look too violet to be grey factored and his rump colour is mottled and very green - not what you'd expect from a grey green even of a dark factor. I have breed cinnamon olives in some numbers over the years and I wouldn't say that the body colour is too dark seeing as we can only really see rump colour which is always a bit darker. Mystery sure is a good name for him! As to the body colour of your chicks.... IF any of them are also cinnamon that is going to affect the body colour as will opaline so might not be a great indicator.

Interesting debate....... Birds don't have teeth and therefore cannot grind up their food in any other way than their gizzard. If you've ever cut up a gizzard you'll see that it is very muscular and heavily ridged. This organ is used to grind up hard seeds BUT grit in a birds diet assists with the grinding. It was found that in captive ostriches fed grain based diets, that the birds could not maintain weight without the addition of grit to the diet (not soluble grits like cuttlebone or shell grit but in this case crushed bricks were used). The differences between grits are that grit like cuttle bone and some limestones/shell grits will dissolve in the gizzard (providing mineral nutrition) and not assist with the job of grinding seeds. The issue that some people have seen with grits is gizzard impaction although the actual causitive agent has not really been determined i.e. was it the grit itself? or was it the bird gorging the grit (maybe because they needed it in the first place)? or was it a gizzard condition that was quite unrelated? The general understanding however is that insoluble grits, although not nutritionally required (in a vitamin & mineral sense), are helpful and very much assist birds in grinding their foods and in fact most birds have evolved to require this.

Don't think Joe will have anything to spare. Speaking to him last weekend, his fallow breeding is going about as well as mine!

When it comes to birds/dogs/garden/horses/card making I'm a heavy shopper. When it comes to groceries/clothes/fashion items etc I can't stand it and would rather be doing something much more exciting like sleeping!

Well GB, RIP might have some solid ideas about this topic as the very first lacewing hen I bred was bred from a clearbody split lacewing cock of hers. Personally I don't really see the point unless the clearbody is SO strong that it will improve your lacewing line or visa versa but from what I've seen it's probably easier to stick with normals. BUT seeing as you have features on your lacewings that you want in your clearbodies it's definitely worth a try. As there is much less wastage from sex linked recessives I personally don't see the advantage of breeding with a bird in the same allelic series of varieties but then I don't also have clearbodies as a variety in my aviary.

Umm well not ours!......... maybe........ I don't think...........

How about the states that want to introduce all these new classes fund the smaller zones to run Nationals in their zones - bet there would be an even BIGGER debate about that one!

Joe Makdesi has Bretts old fallow line - or what is left of them.

A black eyed self is in essence a suffused that has been heavily selected for little marking AND has had cinnamon added to reduce the suffusion. If anything the BES is the phoney variety (in genetic terms) but still an attractive and challenging bird to breed to standard. Keeping the suffusion and markings out of them whilst trying to improve the size and feather is a real effort. Dilutes on the other hand are generally very strong birds, having quite often come out of random pairings. They are extremely useful in clearwing and greywing breeding and MANY breeders have them in their aviary for that reason (including myself). It would be extremely nice to be able to show these birds in their own ligit class. Oh and S-C if you do actually read your standard you will find the suffused combined into the AOSV - I suggest your give it a quick going over. At the moment though the AOSV class is totally dominated by these high quality dilutes. What a SENSIBLE idea to split them away from this class and add them to the nationals. They are a variety in their own right genetically speaking anyway! And as far a judging them is concerned I think the standard suggests 30% suffusion is optimum. Well that's not too bad a target to aim for when BES breeding aim is a totally clear body colour. Speaking as a judge I don't think I'll have too much trouble with them. I still do say that for smaller state bodies it's going to be extremely difficult to accomodate extra classes, birds, space, staging, holding areas, holding cages, show cages etc etc etc. A horrible thought on that front.

My opinion. Suffused class (dilutes) - long overdue. Violets - also long overdue. Splitting yellowfaces a good idea to support the beautiful goldenface varitiey but standard will need revision (have fun those involved with THAT!!!!) The other stuff might be a good idea in relative terms but seems a little over the top as an all in one move considering the pressures already on smaller zones to hold an event such as the Nats. As far a being involved in organising a National event in the past - bags not doing it when all these new classes are brought into play. As it was we really struggled to find a venue that was a) big enough and was happy to have livestock. Also the larger outlay for show cage and holding cage production is really going to hurt smaller zones. Edit: Stupid emoticons.... thats supposed to be a b!

Bummer Ratzy! I know you would have done whatever you could given the opportunity.

Come on GB! Where are the updates and continuing story.....?

Isn't it amazing that instinct can be so right about someone. The people we bought the shop from seem nice enough. I've always got on with them okay but something deep down found them a bit suspicious. I just kinda brushed that off as me be a distrustful ***** but an interesting thing happened yesterday that made me realize that my gut instinct was right after all. 2 payments were made by our customers into the old owners account. Now they've never been super speedy at rectifying this and I've had to ask for confirmation that they even have the payment to start with. So in this instance I asked once and they confirmed that they have only one payment but have closed the account so can't access the details (well I told them the details but obviously that's not enough!) that's all I hear for a couple of days - no payments into account.... okay. They still get their statements sent here which I always open as they are addressed to the proprietor. Seeing as they are open anyway, I look to see, and yes BOTH payments are there. So I ask again, letting them know that I looked (shock horror) at their statements as I had not heard from them. Still no response for another couple of days so I ask if there is any progress.... Bearing in mind one payment has been in their account since the 25/2 and they closed the account on the 11th so they definitely knew it was there. So now in comes the previous owner (husband of the team) all steamed up that they are busy and that I was bugging them ever 2 seconds and that it was only $200 for gods sake (maybe that's not much for him but it is for me!!!!). I guess my instinct was right after all - vindictive nasty little people! Just because they felt I was bugging them by asking (the first time!!!!) they stalled payment and did not reply to e-mails. **** YOU TWO I SAY! My instinct was right about you after all. I wonder when I'm going to learn to trust myself!

Not having night frights - kidding right?????? I'm with Dean and Splat. You obviously never heard an aviary full of birds going burserk in the dark after having a "night fright". My birds are reasonably robust but they do go off on the odd occasion (usually owls or me trying to sneak in without disturbing them) and occasionally kill themselves in the process (not likely with a bird in a small cage though). As already suggested a night light or covering the cage might be a good plan. If it's not night fright you bird MAY be having seizures but this is way more likely when you handle/stress the bird so I'd definitely investigate the night time birdie sleeping arrangement.

K&M is correct. If you know her parents you can possibly determine if she is SF or DF. And if you ever breed from her you might tell if she is SF or DF as well. But visually it's a guess. Your hen is opaline - that lightens body colour to a small degree so the lightness doesn't necessarily determine if she is SF or DF. The "violetness" of the violet colour (as you say, without any real visual blue colouring) might or might not mean she is DF violet. There is WAY too much natural variation in colours to be 100% sure unless you have breeding records and breeding results to go by or you've mapped the budgie genome! I do find all this SF DF violet thing pretty obsessive really. Not just you hans but everyone here seems to be a bit obsessed about violet generally. Even at show lately people are benching cobalts as violets just because they have some violet suffusion (which is common in a lot of blues) on their shoulders. They get sad when I wrong class them!!! Anyway unless you are going to breed from her does it really matter if she is SF or DF. And then if you breed from her you'll find out anyway most likely.

Maybe he's REALLY into cheese

Violet is a colour modifier. It occurs on any colour (think of it as added on top of a birds normal colour) so your bird IS BLUE and it is ALSO violet.

Very likely but could also be a badly marked albino. Baby lacewings can often have VERY faint almost non-existent markings until after their first moult. Best to check the tail and if the 2 mail tail quills are a slightly different colour than the other tail quills (should be faintly cinnamon if it's a LW).

Hey Splat. To be honest with you the only way I can get on top of a large mouse influx is by baiting. We are really anally retentive about where we put the baits mind you (having 7 very nosey dogs around). But we have them only in the breeding room and make sure that any carcasses are removed (into the bin) so than no birds/dogs/whatever else can eat them. I was told by a pest controller that there is not enough poison in a dead mouse/rat to kill a dog but we are talking about whippets here (no fat means poisons affect them worse) so I'm not going to test out that theory if i can help it! You can also buy those bait holders for extra security which might help with your young dog around. But just so you know, I feel your pain! Had mice in cabinets, hopper, everywhere just at the start of winter when we moved into our new aviary. Mice still have open access into the aviary if they choose but most never leave - WHAHAHAHAHA!

Gosh Splat you've killed some mice as well! You'll definitely survive!!!!!! Those nasty mice should be running for their lives Just keep at it, you'll get on top of them eventually. Good luck with it.

Only when the mice get really bad and we didn't bait. Even though our cages are raised off the ground the little suckers got into the cages etc. As soon as that started happening we waged massive war against them! Baiting in all the areas our dogs couldn't get to. Shed with hay was a BIG problem mice AND rats. We baited there, in the breeding room (under cupboards, seed hoppers, everywhere). That with the live catcher seems to keep them at bay but if we only go by the live catcher, things get out of control at the start of winter. Ours seem to come in out of the rain mainly..... If we don't get stuck into trying to control them, then they do cause a problem with the birds - otherwise we keep enough control of the numbers that they don't see the need to go scaling the heights to the cabinets.

Wouldn't those 12 fingers make typing difficult too??? Just jokes