nubbly5

I'd describe him as a very cute white budgie with a pretty orange beak and little black eyes He's a cute little boy and looks very tame too - sweet!

Spangle clearwing or spangle dilute light green hen and a normal cobalt cock.

the chick is no longer in my care hes seven weeks old now but the person whom got him was worryed about him as hids breathing was not right when i could here it on phone i told her vet straight away as is respiratory she was going to vet but going to wait for a certain vet i said so long as avian go sooner not latter the chick is being treated so thats good the other chicks were out earlier than this last one about a week n mum kicked him out to sit on new eggs shed layed i may treat the pair as their still together with new chicks hatching first on was yesterday as my birds all seem best they have for long time this morning they were all chattering sitting blows all up chip chip chipping away happy as larrys but first sign of trouble ill fore sure know what to suspect vet didnt actually diagnose what repertory infection just treated with vit a shot and quote "Enrofloxacin .3mls twice a day for 6 days. I have to then take him back next tues, and he will start a new antibiotic. " 'i just asuming chick got sick here first as shes only had a very short time seems he was sick with in first day or two being their he wasn't covered at night though i did think he could of got chilled but over night ???? what is "Enrofloxacin nubbly another question can probiotics be used with "Enrofloxacin and or lemmon juice or apple cider vin where do you get moxi t is it from vet or can you get on line also im trying to help owner find out things also a test that needs to be sent over seas to be done ... what could this be for takes two weeks to get back ???? sounds weird Maybe polyoma virus test...... sort of remember another breeder testing for circovirus and polyoma virus and think the bloods needed to be sent overseas....... but don't quote me. Enrofloxacin is sold as Baytril. A broad spectrum antibiotic produced by Bayer. Dunno about probiotics and enrofloxacin - I don't use probiotics at all for any animal as there is no useful scientific information that has ever proven that probiotics do anything other than make us all feel good by using them. Unless both products are made by the same company I doubt that anyone else would know if probiotics and enrofloxacin can be mixed with one or the other being affected. Probably not the best idea to mix probiotics and antibiotics.

Well I'd hate to give you a bum steer GB BUT in your position with only one chick showing symptoms I'd treat the chick individually with Moxi-T (or via water to cabinet if it's still in the the parents) and monitor closely. If it's something more sinister you will only know if other chicks/birds start dying. I know I had a psitacosis outbreak last year from a carrier hen and slowly a few different birds including her mate were affected until I culled her, aggressively treated with doxy all the affected chicks and birds. All with respiratory symptoms all from the same nest and then nests around. Myco rarely comes as an outbreak and usually only affects already stressed birds so for now that's the path I'd choose personally but I've been known to be wrong so decide as you feel you must!

Body colour is different though and when both birds are together surely the yellow reflection would have affected the hen too???

My thoughts are M1, or maybe DF M2 - such little suffusion evident on wings which are almost white. M2's that I've seen are quite evenly suffused right down to the wings and tail.

myco often comes along as a secondary to other things - stress, chills etc. it's present as a natural occupant of the bird just gets out of control sometimes - if you catch it early and with mild symptoms Moxi T treats it well. psitacosis generally comes in with a carrier - doxy program early would seem to suggest that it's not a real issue in your flock. 5 week chick in the nest might well be a high humidity thing as the nests can get quite wet with older chicks. Could be psitacosis from a healthy looking carrier parent or neighbor bird. Could be myco if the chick is stressed or underfed. If other chicks in that nest show these signs it's probably something to concern yourself with but one chick I would treat for symptoms - Moxi T in water and monitor. And/or change the nest environment if you thing that is having an effect. Too many possibilities at this stage though GB.

Didn't to me initially either but look closely at BOTH pics of the cock. When I looked again at the picture of the cock where his face is partly obscured by the wire, the very edge of his mask indeed looks lemony coloured. The difference in body colour also is suspicious although not conclusive. Need a better picture.

Maybe so Finnie! A better photo of him would help.

Mycoplasma - a form of bacteria that commonly causes respiratory issues in a range of different animals. Chlamydia - psitacossis

Agree with RIP on both these birds.

Well, knowing Geraldton quite well (and yes it's an interesting place too) and having spent a bit of time in Tassie I reckon they have nothing on this place but there ARE some nice people who live there. You'll make it that bit better anyway, right

Well having made the move myself more than 10 years ago I can say that it has been the best thing I've ever decided to do BUT Driving further to budgie shows, airport, dog trials etc etc has been a real drag AND I haven't had to pay for car and fuel for the last 16 years. I can tell you that 400 km round trip is a complete pain. At least it's only around 200km round trip to the SWBC. And the country lifestyle is one thing but personally I wouldn't move to the town that house is in - but hey that's just me....... I don't do the scar on my shoulder where they have to cut the second head off nor am I too keen on dueling banjo's But then living in Perth has BIG KNOBS on it and anywhere regional would now be my choice any day and the area is growing like buggery!!! So opportunities will only get better for work, services, etc etc. And THAT HOUSE is magnificent even if it is in two heads town My dad always said when you have a difficult decision to make toss a coin. If you don't like the result then the other choice is the right one!!! I've always interpreted that as make the decision that feels right to both of you but you need to be 100% honest with yourself. Good luck and it would be seriously awesome to have you as a neighbour!

So is it a vet script only product Kaz? I guess not then..... Oh and I found this abstract..... seems fipronil HAS been used in budgerigars before AND been written up in a clinical paper somewhere. Nineteen clinical reports on the efficacy of fipronil (Frontline® Spray and Spot On) against a number of external parasites in different species of small animals are reviewed. In addition to dogs and cats the preparation was successfully administered to guinea pigs, hamsters, rats, mice, budgerigars, pigeons and reptiles for the elimination of pest arthropods. Effective parasite was observed for Etodectes cynotis, Sarcoptes scabei, Cheyletiella yasguri, Neotrombicula autumnalis, Lynxacarus radovsky, Trichodectis canis, Felicola subrostraties, Lignognathus setosus, Trixacarus caviae Polyplax spinulosa, Polyplax serrata, Liperuus spp., Columbicula columbae and Campanulotes bidentus compar. Fipronil kills these parasites rapidly and with a durable effect, allowing lesions of skin and feathers to improve and reducing severe pruritis. Possible contraindications in animals species such as the rabbit, squirrel, hedgehog and Galliformes are discussed. Frontline® spray is also effective as an environmental decontaminant. Hmmm might be an interesting alternative.......

Your first pair are both normal greys. They hen might be a dark factor grey but it's super hard to tell on grey factor birds. As both are blue series which is recessive to green series all their babies will be blue series. Depending on how many grey factors each bird has you have a variable chance of getting all grey babies from 100% if you have a double factor grey bird to 75% chance of grey and 25% chance of blue if both parents are single factor grey. That's not counting any hidden recessive or sex linked recessive genes that either of them might carry nor the possible presence of the dark factor. The second pair looks to be a YF2 cobalt (maybe violet) recessive pied with a normal cobalt hen. Again blue being recessive means that pairing these 2 will result in only blue series babies - nothing wrong with that. If the hen is split for recessive pied (carrying one hidden gene for recessive pied) then you have 50% chance of producing more recessive pied babies but if not then all babies will be normals but split for recessive pied themselves. Both parents carrying one dark factor means that you will likely get a mix of skys, cobalts and mauves from this pairing - 25% chance sky, 50% chance cobalt and 25% chance mauve. Again barring any other hidden recessive genes or sex linked recessive genes.

I'd imagine because S76 is maybe a vet script only product you would have to buy it through a vet or be a vet customer of vetafarm.

See this is where we all get confused I think. Feather LICE can be seen with the naked eye and sit in between the veins of the feathers and can be easily controlled with AIL, lice and mite spray or ivermectin spot on. Blood MITES can also be seen with the naked eye, spend the majority of their time off the bird hiding in cracks and joins in cabinets, they suck blood and can also be easily controlled by ivermectin and surface spraying with a pyrethroid based spray. Feather QUILL MITES are not visable with the naked eye, must be viewed under a microscope and spend all their life WITHIN the QUILL of birds feathers, feeding on body fluids. Now one would assume that because they feed on body fluids that they would also be easily controlled by ivermectin either spot on or in water but as Kaz found out, they seem more difficult to control than other mites and lice on budgies. Now IF Frontline (yes the Dog and Cat product, also a agricultural chemical used for crop production amoungst other registered uses!) IS such a good mite treatment as it seems and IF it's safe for bird use (haven't found anything other than poultry treatment mind you), then it might be a possible option for these difficult to control critters. Needless to say that you need to be a vet to use or prescribe an unregistered product just like we all do with ivermectin which is not registered for use on budgerigars ALSO I have no idea of the LD50 (poisonous-ness-ness) of fipronil to budgies, nor do I know the effective dose rate for feather QUILL MITE or even if it IS effective. I was just having a public muse about the subject.......

Do you guys remember our friend Al@n's "experiment with Frontline????? Fipronil being the active - apparently extremely effective against mites........... I wonder if it would be any good for quill mites considering how hard they are to get rid of even with Ivermectin........ just thoughts.

Finnie I'm sorry to hear of the drama's you are having. Budgie breeding can be so heart breaking sometimes. Triple C or doxycycline sounds like a good bet at the moment. The marks on the tail feathers are not uncommon and caused by growth "shocks", minor setbacks or knocks to the growing feather at quill stage which cause weakness lines in the main tail feathers - at least that is what I've been told previously. From what I understand - nothing to be too concerned about. Some possibilities to check when lots of chicks are dying: 1) Psittacosis - kills chicks of various ages and often adults have respiratory symptoms 2) French Moult (kills chicks around 10 day age) 3) Food poisonings - mild toxins don't affect adults too much (or just mildly) but can affect babies causing many deaths - check sprouted seed if you use this as it can go off quickly, also were some cases over here of broccoli available over here that had been sprayed with a product that severely affected birds causing deaths. In any case I wish you all the best of luck for getting on top of it! Edit: Just found this on detecting feather quill mite. II. Detection of Quill Mites Due to the fact that quill mites are predominantly prevalent in the inner feather quill and the inner feather shaft (with exception of the time of emigration and new settlement), detection is restricted mainly to the examination of the quill and shaft. In case of heavy infestation the large and the little coverts should also be examined. The detection of quill mites on live birds is therefore hardly likely to be successful, unless one is able to position the feather under the microscope in such a way that the burrow-holes of some mite species can be seen on the dorsal side of the external vane at the base of the feather. Usually one is dependant on moulted or broken off feathers. The feathers of birds with damaged plumage are to removed in accordance with animal protection conditions, i.e. (with) large birds under anaesthetic.Quill bits of broken off feathers still present in the skin should also be removed. When dead birds or plucked feathers are to be examined for quill mites all flight feathers should be examined. The reason is that with lesser abundance, only individual feathers are affected. In one instance it was only possible to detect quill mites on an examined hedge-sparrow (Prunella modularis) on the left wing in the 1. secondary and on the right wing in the 4. secondary. On the other hand a song-thrush (Turdus philomelos) was affected from the 1. secondary right through to the 18. secondary. A house-sparrow (Passer domesticus) and a greenfinch even had an infestation of the large and small coverts. Our findings have shown that the feather quills were always structured, i.e. filled with skinning rests (exuvien), excrement, eggs, dead and live mites as well as their developing stages. The content is light yellowish. Occasionally nodule structures can be seen on the outer surface of the quill. No evidence could be found to support the sporadically expressed opinion in text books that affected quills are discoloured black-reddish by blood clots. The quills of a blackbird (Turdus merula) were darkly discoloured, therefore it was very difficult to recognize the structures. Unaffected feathers are more or less translucent. The so-called “feather soul” can be seen through the quill as a fine horn membrane, especially in smaller birds.The quills to be examined must be dissected carefully with a scalpel under a microscope. The mites are to be removed with a dissecting needle. The preparation as well as the determination of the mites are done in the same manner as is described for feather mites.

Well Done Kaz! Who took out BIS in normals?

Spot on Finnie! Seems someone is well up with their YF genetics

Oh okay. Missed that bit! Yep you are right!

Not necessarily S_C. Depends what the parents were. If both were green/blue then there is a chance that the green babies could have 2 green genes.

Green one at the top is a normal light green. Blue one is a normal cobalt. Last bird is a dark green opaline. No yellowfaces there I'm sorry.

Very cute! I really like the heavy markings on that last opaline spangle. And lovely colours too.