Dean_NZ

That violet tinge usually turns out to be an area of deeper blue around the neck/shoulders and is actually quite common in normal cobalts. People often jump to the conlcusion that it must be violet showing up in a tiny area. I would say she is a cobalt also, especially if she has the darker feathering around her neck/shoulders as violet skies usually have a very well distributed colouring.

From a dark green split blue paired to a cobalt you would expect: 12.5% Light green, 25% Dark Green, 12.5% Olive 12.5% Sky blue, 25% Cobalt, 12.5% Mauve So in a clutch of 8 you could expect 1 light green, 2 dark greens, 1 olive green, 1 sky blue, 2 cobalts and 1 mauve (mathematical probabilities at least).

I think its the reverse guys - note the flights are dark toward the tips as normal, but the main colour of the flights appears more yellow/golden with normal black edging. I think given the unusual yellow in the flights makes sense when you consider the tail - a bluey turqoise (as you would normally expect) with extra yellow pigment would become more green. So if anything, we could be looking at a genetic redistribution of yellow pigment which I havent heard of yet. Of course it could dissapear with the first moult, but as with 'crest bred' birds, perhaps it is one of those complicated genes or perhaps it is a recessive or partial dominant mutation that needs to be doubled up on before it really shows itself. For example cock birds split opaline (melanin redistributing gene) often display a great deal of opalescence in the shoulders and neck, just in the way this bird might be split for some sort of yellow redistribution gene? Just some thoughts Like others have said, time will tell...

Opalines make it very difficult to judge because in regular birds sky violets can look almost identical to normal cobalts, but are easily distinguished by the tails (teal/turqoise for sky blues, solid navy blue for cobalts). However with opalines, not only does the opaline change the shade of blue and violet to a more pastel tone, it also chops the tail up with varying amounts of white and body colour making distinction by tail alone almost impossible. It comes down to experience, breeding outcomes or having other birds of the same mutation in each colour (eg normal sky blue and cobalt opalines, violet sky blue opaline and violet cobalt opaline).

I have a hen sitting on 10 eggs currently and she may lay an 11th... 7 are showing fertile (right from number 1) and I assume the last 3 will also be showing fertile in a few days as they are currently too young to tell. I should have room to foster them all out as required. However all other hens are laying around 5-8 fertile eggs too so we'll see...

I agree with dave. Unless they are able to reproduce it in a determined fashion - eg show that it DEFINATELY passes from parent to child in a dominant, recessive or sex linked fashion then to me it is just a heavily flecked bird. Even a single new mutation isnt a variety unless and until the genetic pass on is determined and the mutation is established within a sustainable population.

I must say that is rather green! Still hoping to check my birds tomorrow but those pictures are mighty interesting :glare:

The white is present in opaline tails. I will check my sky blues and light greens in the morning just so I can be sure that what I am saying is based on fact rather than memory alone :glare:

All my light greens and sky blues have a tail this colour (although it is more apparent in light greens as the green body colour makes it appear more teal, whereas sky blue body colour makes the tail appear more of a bluey turqoise).

Violet cheek patches do not mean a violet bird. Violet cannot be present in split form as it is a partial dominance gene (meaning the double factor form shows/expresses more than a single factor). You cannot be split to dark factors either (eg sky blue, cobalt or mauve) birds simply ARE a certain colour. Grey greens and greys can be very very difficult to determine the dark factor and it takes a trained eye. Even violet greys and violet grey greens can be hard to pick out. The green chick with a 'green' tail is likely a light green with a TEAL or TURQUOISE tail.

By the sounds of it, the chick was killed by faecal bacteria. Once the first chick hatches you run the risk of it defacating on its fellow siblings' eggs while they are still growing and because egg shell is porous, bacteria from the poop can travel into the inner egg membrane and the developing chick dies from infection due to its undeveloped immune system. This risk increases with each additional chick that hatches as well as the growing size and amount of poop as each additional chick ages and eats more. The only way to avoid this is to put adequately absorbant nest material in the box, or to micro manage nests where nest material still fails to protect eggs and manually clean them 1-2x daily (usually i moisten caked on poop with a few drops of water, soak an ear bud/ Q-tip in water and gently 'roll' it on the poop to pick it up off the egg).

The violet gene in the green works the same as it does in blue - its a colour additive. Recognising it in the green series birds is much harder and requires a trained eye or knowledge. For example I have a light green single factor violet cock, except often in violet light greens the violet factor comes across like a dark factor and the bird looks like a dark green. The only noticeable difference is a slightly violet hue and the fact that the tail is turquoise - not navy. (Sky blues and light greens have a turquoise colour to the main two tail quills, cobalts and dark greens have solid navy blue and i might be wrong but if memory serves, mauves and olives have dark navy or black tails). I havent bred a violet dark green so i couldnt guess at how the appearance is altered with a dark gene + a violet gene, but I imagine it is simply a much darker dark green and is best noticed when such a bird is standing next to a normal dark green.

I have done that and all I can seem to find are forums of owners, not necessarily breeders. Thats why im asking if anyone here knows of a great site that is similar to this but for bourkes

Yep, definately cinnamon grey green sorry!

Does anyone know of a forum like this for bourkes parakeets? Im interested in learning more about them, my dad thinks he might want to get a few and wants me to do research for him Cant seem to find any...

Yes you make a good point GB! We definately want to factor in the fact that cocks also cycle through fertility and we certainly wont be flinging any out the door based on poor performance! In actual fact in a program like this, cocks who consistantly fail to produce viable sperm would become valuable as feeder cocks that you know wont father any chicks. In a controlled breeding program where you want to put one cock to two or three hens (I wouldnt do more than two), then you can rely on the 'dud' cock to get the hen in the mood and raise the chicks that will be fathered by another cock bird either AI'd to the hen, or given time to mount her as required (I know some breeders rotate a cock through breeding cages for half of each day if wanting to put him to 2 hens for example). At this point our efforts are not to discriminate against cocks, but to build up our knowledge of fertility cycles, sperm quality/quantity and then use that in conjunction with good pairings and GOOD HUSBANDRY. I firmly believe no amount of technical skill will make up for poor feeding, housing, condition or know-how!

The sperm can dry out once transferred to the glass, but the glass itself is inert (has no effect on sperm). You can improve conditions for sperm by adding a drop of saline (0.9% salt water) to the sample before placing the cover slip over it. We are primarily using this tool to establish TRUE infertility from cocks who are fertile but not filling eggs (for any number of reasons). If you know the cock is fertile and he doesnt fill eggs, then you look at your husbandry (eg do you trim feathers, do you add extra perches if he has trouble staying on, do you remove perches so they mate on the ground etc etc). Another thought we had was screening a cock once per year to see if his sperm is decreasing in vitality so that we know when he should be put into retirement rather than wasting a month or two with a good hen producing nothing. Our aim is to try and improve success rates by having better information. We would all rather put down 20 fertile pairs and use our husbandry to try for best results, rather than to put up 40 or 60 pairs because we know some of them will lay clear eggs and we are hoping to 'balance out the numbers' by adding extra pairs - and more work for us!

Hi all. Been super busy with school and havent really posted much. I make an effort to read as many posts as I can and stay up to date however Last year I had trouble with a cock that could not mate due to a bad wing (like that when I purchased him). Because I paid more than usual for him and he was otherwise a great bird feature-wise I didnt want to let him go to waste so I searched far and wide until I had found enough information to learn how to AI him to his hen. I got some chicks out of him on the second round using AI (yay) and havent really needed to use it since. This year I have been slowly making an alliance with two solid breeders, one who has lots of expensive birds that wont breed, one that has extensive knowledge, space, time and equipment and then there is me - little time or money, but the only one who can actually AI a bird and work a microscope. We decided to combine our skills and help eachother out. We decided to do some tests and put up 6 pairs who had all failed to fill eggs previously. Two cocks are tail-less wonders, two are older birds and the other two had never filled for some unknown reason. We obtained sperm samples today from all 6 cocks and put them under a microscope. What an interesting day!! Cock 1 (5 years old) - Tiny clear yellow sperm sample obtained. Under microscope it showed high numbers of sperm however only about 10 percent were alive. And of those few were moving, most of them were just jiggling around. Fertility extremely poor. Cock 2 (5 years old) - Produced a huge milky sample (about 4x more volume than any other cock). Under microscope it showed very high concentration of sperm, 90% were very actively swimming about. A very very fertile old boy! Cock 3 (3 years old) - Produced an average sized milky sample. Under microscope it showed very high concentration of sperm of which 75% were very actively swimming, 10% wriggling and 15% not moving. High fertility. Cock 4 (2 years old) - Produced a tiny clear yellow sample. Microscope showed moderate concentration of sperm with about 50% moving at a moderate-slow speed, 50% dead. Low fertility. Cock 5 (3 years old) - Produced a small-moderate milky sample. Moderate concentration of sperm, approx 40% actively swimming, 20% slowly swimming, 40% not moving. Low-moderate fertility. Cock 6 (4 years old) - Produced a moderate milky sample. Moderate concentration of sperm, approx 60% actively swimming, 20% slowly swimming, 20% not moving. Moderate fertility (no concerns). We were fascinated by the older cocks - side by side you would never tell one of them is almost infertile while the other one is extremely potent (but perhaps a little bit too laid back to actively chase hens now). Some of the younger cocks performed much more poorly including a tail-less wonder! We were very pleased to have some hard evidence before us as without todays experiment there are far too many possibilities as to why any of these cocks might not have filled eggs. Now we know that 3 if not 4 of these cocks have absolutely no physiological reason why they could not fill eggs as the sperm itself is fine. Now we know that perhaps they have just not mated, or mated ineffectively, or the hen is box bound etc... We really feel as a group that knowledge is power and we are excited about the prospect of getting more information on cocks before we put them down to breed. We may AI the cocks to their hens once or twice (for example we choose a pair, and check the cock for fertility when the hen shows early signs of being about to lay or after she has laid one egg, use part of the sample on a microscope slide and then transfer the remaining sample to the hen just to get some definate sperm transfer before leaving them to do the rest). What are your thoughts on this sort of process? Surely other breeders out there would like to know more about the quality of sperm being produced by cocks to potentially avoid those clear rounds before they even happen? Do some feel it should just be left alone and that we should expect and accept clear eggs?

Lol I love the way you explained the first store visit. Fantastic Job Kaz. Fortunately the lady in charge of the budgies in the local pet shop i visit is a breeder herself and buys from backyard breeders as well as show winners as she knows whos who and what she wants. She recently refused to buy my greens and would only accept my blues in order to keep numbers and colours to a decent ratio. Never seen a sick bird in there that wasnt quarantined.

This would be a good time for AI I havent had to use it for a while, but Im sure glad I know how! Its definately like any other skill - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Worth looking into as you can take a semen sample from a cock that is bonded or even caged with another hen and transfer it to another laying hen with no partner or an infertile 'feeder' cock.

I believe this may be of some assistance. I think I posted it previously on a similar thread. Click here

I've made cardboard nest boxes out of packing boxes (good solid thick cardboard). I reinforce the entry hole with wood and there were no chewing issues at all. I use a removable concave insert which can be re-used but otherwise I love the disposable factor of cardboard boxes which can be made to watever size you desire (provided you have the right sized boxes to start working with).

Oh im not fussed. Without being there in person its hard to say either way, flash and cameras dont show true colour often. However I havent yet bred any clearwings or greywings so I will happily defer to nubbly. The whole 'dirty clearwing' or 'bright greywing' thing is horribly confusing, especially going on photos.

I tend to blame most egg problems on males - typically because 9/10 in my breeding rooms it IS the males that play kick ball with eggs, try to steal one or two from mum to 'help' her sit on them and puncture them in the process (I have actually watched this happen). Or mum will nip out for a stretch/poop and the cock will run in and do heaven knows what for a minute before the hen comes back. I have a hen who had one last chick in the nest box that was very active exploring and her first two eggs got cracked and eaten, removed the chick (first of this round, no other kindy aged chicks so i had hoped to leave it with the parents if possible) and no further egg problems. She has 6 eggs currently (total 8 laid if you include broken ones). Fingers crossed

Hes just a plain light green greywing. The YF only factor in to 'blue' budgies as there are different types of mutations that allow SOME yellow pigmentation. So greens are only ever greens, but some blues are referred to as yellow face type 1 or 2, golden face (single or double factor) etc.