Heathrow

Daz - What Changes have you made to your feeding regime???

I run mine together all the time, never been a problem for me. I do take the birds that i want breed with into the breeding room a few weeks before pairing though, but they are not seperated.

Townsville Budgerigar Club are holding annual auction on Sat 21 March. Not sure if the catalogue is up on the net yet, but if you pm me i can get it to you. There are nearly 90 lots listed from breeders like Gary Armstrong, Dave Ganzer, Ernie Wise, Mario Capasso, Troy Holmes and myself.

Daz - I'd use him, looks to be pulling a bit, but nice feature and feather around the face, and great spot

You can show yellow face df Spangles, they are shown with yellow faces. You do see them from time to time on the show bench. Maybe i wrong, but how will you get Yellow face from this pairing. Seen the cock is Grey, i dont see any yellow face. Neither bird can be masking Yellow face (both blue series)

Yes, she's not bad at all. I believe her parents were Ganzer birds. Would you say she has heavy melanine and be well suited to a Spangle pairing Heathrow? The trouble with opaline spangles is that poorer marked opalines get used hence a badly marked opaline spangle. She looks to have well defined opaline marking and that should throw a well marked opaline spangles. The dark melanine helps but i think it's more to do the definition of the marking.

Shes lovely Hen Renee, really good cap feather.

Flecking !!!!I'm happy to use birds that are flecked mainly opaline and cinnamon opaline hens. My Breeding strategy used to be, to breed 100% show budgies(ie all young i wanted to be show birds), until a few years ago. I now have the view that we should only attempt to breed only a small proportion of show birds (eg 25%) and the bulk of my young to be stock birds. Hence my willingness to use flecked birds. Flecked birds usually carry great spot and depth of mask. Until someone can show me a way of increasing spot size another way i will keep using flecked birds.As a judge we see too many stock birds on the show bench. My Opaline Cinnamon hen that came 3rd at last years nationals is flecked, but still a great bird. Both her parents are clean, sisters are have a degree of flecking, brothers are clean. Every chick she has given me so far has been clean.Flecking is only a feather originated problem. Whats worse a bird with a structural problem (poor backline, narrow head etc) or a bird with flecking????? and if flecking does detract from the bird what about Pieds with no SpotsJudging Flecked birds thats another great discussion!!!! Renee - why would you be happy to have it in recessives and not opalines???

Flecking - Splat whats wrong with flecking???? I believe you cant afford not to use (correctly) birds with flecking. I'm interested to hear other views!!!!!

Macka 1. Yes im a member of a Club. I'm a member and Show manager with Kyabram. Im not sure why that is relavant? 2. Yes I do show, I showed last week at the Adult Shield. I'm also a Judge, i Judged the Geeelong Diploma show a couple of years ago and judged your UBC Selection show last September. 3. Auctions - I havn't been to Geelongs auction for 3 years, but i regularly sell birds at auction (Eastern, Melton, Townsville (QLD) and Wynnum (QLD)) in the past 12 months. I wasnt questioning the quality of birds on offer. My comments relate to a breeder going to auction with the intent of buying birds that are better than what they have at home. I stated that Splat needs to look for features that her birds require and buy accordingly, because looking to buy a complete bird is a wasted exercise.

Its so easy to look at a catalogue or a bird for auction, and lose sight of what its worth. I've done the same Daz, bought birds at auction only to have better ones at home. My preferred method of bringing stock is to develop relationships with other breeders with similar bloodlines and SWAP. I have a close relationship with a breeder who we bought our original stock from the same source and have swapped birds every year since. I can go into his flight and say i want to use his best cock for a season over a good hen. He does likewise. Some much better than forking out money!!!!

Macka the point i was making to Splat, is if she is going to an auction to buy better birds than what she has at home she'll be disappointed. We all look at the catalogue and think they are better, but rarely are better as a complete bird. That's why i suggested to look at the features and buy accordingly.

Splat - theres no point going there and hoping to get a bird better than what you have at home. Look for features that you need, if you are trying to buy a complete bird it's a wasted exercise. You would be better off stopping somewhere and spending half your money on a nice lunch, that way you have only wasted half your money !!!!

I used Father to Daughter late last year. I paired a Grey Green Cinnamon cock bird that is one of my foundation cocks to his best daughter, reason being he is an 04 model and although still breeding well i needed to try that pairing. My reluctance to try this pairing probably has more to do with the fact i didnt want to get overrun with Grey Green Cinnamons. The babies from that pairing i'm really happy with, they are just breaking there caps now. I have him paired up to another daughter now, a Grey Green Opaline Cinnamon. only time will tell. In terms of pairings i do like cousin to cousin, particularly where grandparents are key birds. Half Brother to half sister can work well if you know your birds, it can also be a waste of time if the common parent is nothing but the best. My Breeding programme this year involves quite a few close pairings. I paired up 16 pairs this week all with some form of relationship to it's chosen mate, so by may i should know if my plan has worked.

Daz is there any reason why you dont breed Mother to Son and Father to Daughter.

Are you sure the cock bird is an Opaline Spangle??? What's your objective in pairing these birds together???

Wow - What a discussion!! All Good points The other side of the disclosure debate is how many Top Breeders would want the world to know when a National winner is bred from there bloodline. I bet they all would. In BCSA magazine last year?? there was an article about Gary Gazzard, and how he has develop his 4 main families, Yellow, Blue, Orange and Purple. All 4 have a common ancestry, but have been developed to contribute different elements to the show bird. In effect he is breeding his own outcrosses. So even the top breeders have different families, which means buying a Gazzard bloodline bird (for example) might not be as closely related as we think.

My view - I select the pairings, they are therefore my line, but they are decended from XXXXXX breeder. Its handy to know when seeking birds via Auctions to know where they are decended from. I personally woudnt cross lines from differnet breeders like Daz has explained unless i knew there was a genetic connection. I know several well known breeders who dont like there names being published as "bloodline xxxxx". Sometimes the poorer quality birds can be a reflection on the bloodline and not the breeder, when they could be many generations removed from the original breeder.

I'm no expert with Lutino's. I agree with most of the other comments made, violet is modifier, so it should enhance the intensity of Lutinos. What do you mean "dirty up" my normal line with Cinnamon???

Cere colour is not the only indication that hen is ready for breeding. The hen must be active and eager, and seeking cock birds. I have in my flight a piece of wood mounted with a number of holes drilled to replicate a nest box opening. I can tell which hens are looking to breed by the activity around this area of the flight. I also believe that there is a great variance in breeding cyles of both Hens and Cocks. I've had cock birds that only breed at a certain time of year. I know they say 6- 8 week, but each bird is different.

That's a Green Spangle every day of the week...

With respect to the Bib comment (mask) all birds have masks. Self coloured birds ie Lutinos, albinos, df spangles etc are just that self coloured (ie same colour all over). When a mask is visible is because of suffusion, which is a penalty and birds should be penalised accordingly. Greater the suffusion greater the penalty in a showing sense.

Liv - I understand why you want to kept the Grey Greens together, because of there bloodline. But without knowing the parents i would be worried pairing these 2 together. Both have deep masks but poor spots, both need longer feather and i think that you could cement these bad features. It's possible that they are breed from longer feathered, bigger spotted birds and your chances of recifiying these faults is greatly increased. My opinion only, cheers

Daz - what sort or wire have you used for the dividers???

Hi Throwback - I should have added that one of those birds that i said was rubbish, has produced me a Young bird shield class winner in 2006, a 7th place at 2007 Nationals, and is grandmother of a National winner 2007 and 3rd place 2008. I point I was trying to make is when purchasing birds we are to hastie to get rid of them, when the progeny dont come up scratch in the first year. Non visual birds can be a great help if used correctly, how many times have we walked into a Champions birdroom and looked at their pairings and thought Why? are they using a budgie like that. Only to told how important that particular bird is in there breeding program, when we would not have used that particular bird. Food for thought.