Daryl

Tricky little blighter! okay, here's my go. The baby (a girl) has Cinnamon, Opaline, Violet, maybe also Pied and maybe also Spangle. All will be revealed in a week or so. Still a bit hard to say for certain yet for me. The mother is where the Violet has come from. Her body colour appears to be Dark Green but it's probably Violet Light Green. So she'd be a Spangle Opaline Violet Light Green. She may also be Cinnamon, it's a bit hard to tell on my monitor. I'd guess not however.

Very nice hens there Kaz

Any chance of posting pics here of the parents Pearce? You've stated the hen is Spangle Opaline Light and the cock is Sky blue. Looking at the photo I see a pied of some form and Opaline, but I also see Violet feathers around the rump! Meaning that the parents you've listed could not be his parents as you can't get Violets from Light Green X Sky Blue. Then again, the Violet I see could just be colour shift in my display On another note, the down of a Pied is also white.

I'll second that. With the extra week to recover they should be looking in great shape for your club show.

The change of ring issue went to a vote at National level. I don't know how many attempts or amendments it took to get through but I'd be surprised if it went straight through as the States generally don't agree on these things immediately and some decisions take years to get carried (a look through the ANBC history pages would probably reveal the answer). RIP, What problems do you see this bringing? I know that when the first Nationals were run in the 70's the ring issue date was 1st Jul. This meant the oldest birds were less than 11 months old! In 1978 the Nationals were in Feb meaning no birds were older than 8 months!! The issue date was eventually pushed back to 1st Jan (somewhere between 1983 and 1992 I think) and now pushed back further to 1st Sep. If this continues (and I believe there are some who want this) it will eventually be back at 1st Jul but the birds will be up to a year older than the original concept in the 70's. On a side note, I had a quick look through the ANBC history pages and found that the issue of allowing 2 year old young birds to compete was raised and defeated in 1995 so perhaps the change of ring issue date is a way to achieve the same outcome by stealth.

Yes Daz I understand that but I was just putting the idea out there. Quote: "we are slowly inching forward to having current and previous year birds " So if this was the case, at the 2010 Nationals we would have black (2008) rings and red (2009) rings. I know it's a topic that has been discussed to death in the UK, that of having birds up to 2 years old in the young bird class. The current arrangement of having a Sept 1st ring issue means a bird can be 21 months old at the Nationals now anyway! We're almost there. The thing I have not been able to obtain an answer on yet is this: If I breed a bird in early Sept 2009 and ring it with a blue 2010 ring, what can I show it as at the young bird shows (not the Nationals) in May and June 2010? As far as I know those shows are still for 2009 red rung young birds. So does this mean my 9 month old young bird is unable to be shown as a young bird but if I want to show it will have to put it in the Adult/Old/Any Age class?

Congratulations and well done on your success Splat. I reckon the Spangle Cinnamon Sky hen looks like she would love a holiday in SE QLD for about 6 months

Victoria has won 14 of the last 18 Nationals. It's generally a battle between NSW and Vic with SE QLD coming a close 3rd. For more info on the history of the show have a look at the ANBC site. Here's a link to the past results: ANBC Results Summary I think with the ring issue date being brought forward to Sept 1st we are slowly inching forward to having current and previous year birds being allowed to be shown as young birds. This wouldn't be such a bad thing as it would: 1. Give a bird a second chance at making the National that may have missed that one day due to condition, and 2. Raise the quality of birds on display as the prospective pool to select from becomes even larger. This could also make winning just that more prestigious. It would also be interesting to see if a bird could win "back to back" titles! There must be many cases of breeders producing an absolute cracker only to have it drop a tail, go into a moult etc and then miss the Nats. Given that we don't produce too many "crackers" it must be extremely disappointing to those breeders whose top birds can't be considered for selection. Agree with Daz, just getting a bird to represent my club would be a step forward. The Nats is what we all ultimately aim for.

FWIW I agree with Renee on this topic. I don't pay a lot of homage to the theory of bloodlines but instead try to identify and analyse the desired features and determine the genetics involved and how they interact. It is the interaction of the genetics relating to the features that determine the outcome, not some reliance on a name. eg if I had a Henry George bird then using the bloodline theory a good mate would be another Henry George bird. Sounds fair. But what if my purpose was to breed a Green. If I had a Henry George green does that mean I have to mate it to another Henry George green? No, of course not. But what I have done is to accurately determine what the variety is and select a mate compatible for it. This is what we need to do for show features too. Another reason why I tend not to worry so much about the bloodline theory is that in reality I don't believe the bloodlines exist to the point made in this thread. Have a look through an auction catalog. Reading the description (where it is given) a lot of the breeders (even top ones) refer to having bred the bird from other breeders or list other breeders in their bloodline! So in those cases how can buying this bird be a line of the seller? It can't. Further, some breeders don't list the ancestry of the birds in the catalog and in these instances we have no way of knowing or confirming how closely these are related to their overall stud. We just assume that they are of the "blood". In summary, I believe in buying features, not names which may or may not even be related, is the way to go.

:budgiedance: Just a quick reminder about the show tomorrow. Open judging commencing 9AM and shuold be well finished by midday. Trophy presentation is at 1:30PM. There are 486 birds entered of which I have 5! There will also be some birds for sale, available before the judging commences.

I got a couple of quick photos of 2 of the birds when I got home. The one of the Lacewing didn't turn out but below are the other two. Cinnamon Grey YF Opaline Cinnamon Sky Blue

Thanks Pearce and Daz. Had a good day and thanks to Daz I got to steward which was a great experience. Before I left to go to the show this morning I said to my wife that I'd be happy just placing in a strong class. I really didn't expect to win anything. I almost scratched the winning Cinnamon this morning as he'd been pretty unsettled all week, but this morning seemed okay so he got a run after all. A friend of mine said he was very lucky to win as he wouldn't show except for a brief moment. That was enough for the judge and he placed him first. Very lucky. When I got him home he was showing like a champ, just like in the aviary! If only he could do that all the time. Daz's Light Green that came third is a nice bird I wouldn't be surprised to see him go further next time. I hope Daz you got a picture of Henry's Cinnamon hen and the 2 Miller Cinnamon cocks they were unreal. Also the winning Greywing of Millers was enormous! Have to be a good chance at the National if it's in condition come selection time.

Thanks Pie. She's all grown up now and I've entered her for the show on Sunday. Also entered her Lacewing half sisters but I'm not sure if they'll go as their tails are still a bit short. I have a young Cinnamon Grey cock entered that I'm hoping will show himself okay as he looks very nice showing off in the aviary!

800-1000 birds. Crikey! I've been breeding again for 2 seasons and have chosen this as my first show! Talk about a challenge. Was good to catch up and say hello to you Daz at the ABS sale the other night. For those of you who have bought birds from Daz you'll be happy to know he had more good quality birds for sale there. I'm starting to think perhaps he has a machine out the back pumping out quality birds

In my mixed aviary of birds I have young (ie 3 to 8 months) cocks and hens that you swear by their behaviour were ready to breed. But basically they are just learning about life. I'm always wary of cocks under 12 months of age as they may be physically mature but in most cases they're just plain silly. Of course their are exceptions. I judge my birds on an individual basis and when they are used to breed for the first time I observe their behaviour to make sure they are seem mature enough for the task I have set them. Otherwise one or both are returned to the flight for a few months. I only have a limited number of breeding cages and I can't afford the birds chosen to fill those cages think it's party time :fear So, would I use the 6 month old cock to breed? He's still a kid, let him be a kid.

Sorry Renee I'm not being very clear. I mean that I when I visit the linked site I can't find the text you've posted. I can't find any reference to a promotion on Jeff Stone's site. It lists the software at $75.

Is the promo at the link you have provided as I can't see the promo text you pasted?

My method of culling is a little different to that listed above and I'll explain why. I keep all of my birds in a series of suspended aviaries varying in size. These are used for breeding (1 pair per cage) and holding. Hence space is usually a rare luxury especially when breeding . I keep around 50 birds at most times comprised of my breeding stock, birds resting from breeding and current year young. This means I perform a mini-cull as required generally every 6 to 8 weeks. As quality of bird is the deciding factor I don't judge my birds in their varieties but instead retain those that I believe are of the best quality. The only exception here is if I have only 1 or 2 of a variety which I'm trying to develop then I'll be a little more forgiving. However I generally breed mainstream varieties. I generally don't catch up all my birds as they are able to be viewed (and are constantly :rofl: ) from close up. Birds are only caught up when there is little between them. So, how do i decide what to keep? Well with each bird in the aviary I ask myself a simple question: Will I ever want to show or breed from this bird? If the answer is no to both then it is sold. Birds are culled thus: Firstly, problem birds (ie problem breeders, non-layers, infertile birds etc) are sold to the local pet shop. Secondly, nestfeathers (or UBC's) are also sold where they exhibit a very narrow head, shallow mask or are very small. This leaves all the better sized and feathered birds to develop when a decision can be made after their moult. Blow of head feathers is not a priority at this stage. I know most people prefer to retain their babies until after one moult, but to me the babies which are that far behind the rest with the faults listed above should not make it into the "want to show" or "want to breed from" category so I make space for others. It also saves feeding birds for 6 months that will not be required. The only exception here would be an only chick (probably a hen) from an outstanding parent which may be retained. But as I said, space is a premium so I can't keep them all! Third, cocks in particular that I continually overlook to breed from (for say 6 months). This is saying to me I can always find something better in my aviary to use so these cocks are also sold. It is pleasing to see birds which a year ago were though of as a "must retain" suddenly being downgraded to a "not required". This means progress has been made. As the current years birds become old enough they will enter the breeding team and if progress has been made replace the lesser quality ones. I believe in being ruthless with retaining cocks as I only want to use the best ones I have to breed from. Hens are a different proposition. I keep many more hens than cocks as there are always plenty that require a vacation from breeding, are not in condition (they have decided they need a vacation!) or don't like any of my chosen partners. I have 2 exceptions to the above: one hen will never leave as she has been a gem and has single handedly help get me started. Also I have a cock who I bought at auction who never filled an egg and after buying developed a nice big fatty cyst :rofl: So in summary, my method is one of continual cull in which hopefully the average quality of stock gradually rises by removing the lesser quality birds. And as young birds age the best ones become a part of the breeding team superceding existing birds.

Congrats on your win and on breeding birds of that quality, they are both fantastic!

And here's a photo taken early this year of Chloe: Here's one of her half brother, Stumpy, a Yellow Face Sky Blue bred last year.

Here's a picture of my favourite girl from this year. Name: Chloe Yellow Face Opaline Cinnamon Sky Blue

Boy for me. I think there's a touch of "purpley blue" and no "milky blue". I've noticed though that it's difficult to judge colour from photos as the white balance, saturation and hue of the pics often causes birds to look completely different. ie Sky Blues looking like Cobalts and vice versa.

I believe the author later corrected that article so that it read $6,000. However, I was at the auction and it was in 1992 for a Cobalt cock which had won the National that year. Remember, English birds had been on the scene only a few years and many people had outlaid a fortune getting into them so prices were still high. It was also a deceased estate and contained many nice birds. Bidders arrived from all over the country and the bidding was keen. Three guys sitting beside me spent $21k, $11k and $1,400 whereas I spent a paltry $290 :hap: Oh, and who bought the $6K bird? Well his initials go a little like HG

Oh that's too bad. My club in QLD has a min buy of 20 increasing in lots of 10 thereafter. I guess they have the 50 min to cut down from people ordering many small amounts and thereby lessen their workload. But that doesn't help us who don't need 50 rings.

You should only buy what you think you will use this year. The rings are coded by year and also colour coded by year so they're not much use next year.