Norm

My sad story, for your knowledge, but I hope to still get something out of it…hopefully not a disease outbreak. I had two new British type birds that I bought from a local pet shop. Luckily we seem to have better pet shops here, than is most of your expience. They told me they were from a breeder that had decided to give up birds. I picked out what I thought was the most healthy & active two. I decided to pair them up; the hen had eggs, when one morning I found her lying on the floor of the breeding cabinet. I suspected egg binding, as it had been cold. The eggs were cold, so I transferred them to the only bird that had eggs. It turned out that it wasn’t egg binding, but she seemed as if she had hurt one of her legs. I transferred her to a separate cage, as the cock was hassling her. She recovered. Three of the eggs that I transferred hatched, but after a few days I couldn’t leave them there, as there were 11 eggs all told. I transferred two to a pair in an aviary that only had hatched 2 chicks. And one to another, which is doing well & is a Green Opaline Spangle. Then the double whammy occurred, after a couple of days, when checking the 2 chicks in the aviary I found out all 4 chicks, hers & the fostered, had dirty behinds & then noticed that the hen had both her eyes streaming with liquid. I had some psittavet [antibiotic] so I started feeding it in the water. I didn’t know what else to do, as even if I had some spare batches, I wouldn’t move the chicks now, as it could spread what ever it was to others. I also had three pairs, colony breeding & a pair of cockatiels on eggs in this aviary. Hopefully it has worked, as the mother seems better, not completely, but better than she was…shows you like many have said that stress can bring out problems & of course breeding is stress. It seems to me also that you can see some things definitely have genetic connection [susceptibility] as a couple of days after starting to feed the psittavet, the foster hens two chicks died, but the two fostered chicks stopped scouring & are doing well. So far nothing else has showed signs of trouble, as soon as the chicks are old enough, I will remove the hen.

Looks good Feathers…this bird “keeping/ breeding” thing is like a disease isn’t it. Soon there wont be room for you, you’ll have to move out & leave it to the birds... (Laughing out loud)…I’m always getting told ”haven’t you got enough birds”…great fun isn’t it. I just built 4 more breeding cabinets this week. He He He!!!

Daz’s & Bea’s Pictures of pet type budgies, have still quite clear foreheads, compared to the birds I saw at the bird show on Sunday, which brought back to me how barred young budgies used to be. They had their barring right down to the cere, with no clear yellow showing at all & these birds were not just out of the nest & were really small birds as well. Most of my birds are quite clear, so I don’t think I can provide a picture of what I mean. Should have taken my camera with me. I think even lots of Pet type budgies that you see these days have quite a lot of “improved’ blood in them, from show & British bloods.

Elly, I think it’s because they keep selecting birds that have clearer foreheads as adults & now lots of babies have very little or almost no barring even when leaving the nest. One of my best families I noticed how clear they were straight from the nest. But then again, especially Opalines, but also some other colours, in the British show type budgies, seem to have lots of speckles or dark feathers even after the adult moult is finished. Which of course is a show fault. As shown in some of those Opalines I bought this week, whose pictures are on my other post. Also with the Recessive pieds as you say, they seem to do lots of strange things to the colour of feathers, not only on the forehead, I have one small pet type Recessive pied, who is now adult, who has retained his forehead barring, he has a very narrow yellow area then straight away, the barring without the clear forehead. Also the Recessive gene seems to change the wing pattern on lots of birds.

The fact that her cere hasn’t changed, maybe unusual, as usually it will eventually change to the brown stage, first a light tan then darker & darker brown. How old is she? A lot is written on here about having Budgies in breeding condition [dark brown cere] but plenty breed without ever going dark brown & I have had lots that are dark brown, but as soon as they start to breed it fades to a pale whitish blue & stays that way & they will have a number of batches with no problems. Also I have had plenty that were a very dark brown & never laid an egg. I wouldn’t worry too much if I were you.

Tal, there are two common Budgies that are all white, which don’t have red eyes, there are Dark Eyed Clears [DEC], which are a combination of a Clearflight split Recessive Pied mated to a Recessive pied…which then can give you some white birds which have a plum sort of colour eye without an iris ring… Then there is the Double Factor Spangle [DF Spangle] mate two Spangles together & some will turn out clear, these will get an iris ring as they mature [approx 3 months or more] of course if you want white it has to be bred from blue series birds.

I had noticed of late that mostly my Budgies didn’t seem to have barred foreheads, even when just leaving the nest. Then I saw some really small pet types at the bird sale last weekend & saw how much their foreheads were barred. What is your experience with this? I was going to ask for some time. Do you think that birds that have been bred for show seem to have lost this, at least partially or is it the British bird influence? Maybe it's the concentration on selecting for such large "boofy" heads & clear foreheads?

My guess is that the oldest one is a Normal Green, then a Spangle & third a Lutino. Your game Kaz guessing their sexes at that age…the cock [father] must be split for red eye too, so the Lutino can be either cock or hen.

Yeah they all look healthy Dave, occasionally you will see a leg sticking out sideways, when they are young as they don’t have such good control over them, but if they have splayed legs you will notice one leg sticking out each side. This will occur in the first week, if you have a concave or make sure you have plenty of material in the nest box so the legs can get a grip, you wont have any problems.

Having the light on all the time could be a good thing, with sick birds, as they can feed when ever they feel like it, which could aid in their recovery.

Yeah she looks like a Opaline Texas Clearbody to me. Why can’t I find a TCB at my local pets shop…Sob…Sob…Sob… Jealous…Normie.

Mandy some people have what they call a hospital cage, which is a small cage, that is usually heated with a small electric light globe, used to place sick birds in to help them recover. Has the one that you say is unwell been treated for Air Sac mites? As this can make them look unwell. If you have had air sac mites all birds should be treated at the same time & those new birds should be treated before they are placed with the others, it’s a very common complaint with canaries, some don’t show symptoms, but all need to be treated at once. If as soon as your birds look well, they could be place outside again, I would pick a nice day & put them out in the aviary after the morning warms, which will give them time to adjust to the cooler night. Winter is a testing time for birds & any that are unwell, can succumb.

Michelle this is only a rare thing; hopefully you wont have that problem. Some people think its because they have a deficient diet, others think it’s a nervous disorder. Mostly once a hen or cock starts feather plucking it’s very hard to stop, if it happens wait till the baby is getting old ready to leave the nest & can keep it’s self warm, then remove it from the nest to the floor of the cage, where the parents can still feed it, mostly then they will stop.

Thanks guys, now I only hope they breed well, I’m thinking of breeding them together at first to get more of the straight blood then, mate the offspring to some of my other birds. You must have good eyes Elly, that's the best bird I think. He wanted more for that bird, but we had to wait till the sale opened at 10am & then he seemed to have forgotten about that & I got it cheaper.

Tal…I build all my breeding cabinets out of pine, as long as it’s not going to be out in the weather. Some birds will of course chew, but I haven’t had that much trouble from Budgies. I buy I think the widest size planks & then join two together with a small light piece of wood to give me the depth. They are about 8” inches wide, I can measure & let you know more details later. I’m building some today, so I’ll take some pictures & measure sizes. You can email me if you like.

Six is about normal, but some can lay less & plenty lay more I have had up to 8 & others more.

Dominant Pied & Clear flight are both dominant, so sorry Marlony you can’t have splits for Clearflight. Both of your birds are YF2 so probably you will get mostly YF2 young, YF being Dominant to Blue factor, but if they are single factor you will have the chance of some white faced blues also. Like Elly says you will get 50% Dominant/Clearflight & 50% normals…all hens produced will be Opalines. And as Elly said any Recessive they are split for & sex linked colours the cock may carry.

Is the Melanistic Spangle a complete different mutation to Spangles? From memory I think you guys got them from your Dominant Spangles. But your saying it’s recessive are you? Is it dominant [to most colours] but Recessive to normal Spangles? I don’t like them as much at Spangles, but I like having different mutations, so would like to get some & now you mention the possibility of DF that sounds interesting. You got them from your normal Spangles, does anyone know if others have got the same or is it only coming from a few families?

Pretty cheap I think Paul...cocks $20 hens $25.

Hi just a couple of quick pictures to show you what I bought today. Our local club had a bird sale today, there wasn’t many Budgies, just about 10 pet types & one guy with show types, so I bought 9 all told, to hopefully improve my birds type. What do you guys think? They are a little stressed out & not good pictures, maybe better ones later, they are still in the cages I bought them home in. I’m planning to mate the Opaline Grey cock, left hand of picture with the Cinnamon Opaline Light Green hen, centre of picture. The Cinnamon Grey Opaline hen is very young. And the Grey Green Normal cock left of picture, with the Opaline Sky Blue hen, right of picture…the picture of this hen isn’t true to colour, she has a very violet head & those patches on her body, does that mean she has violet in her? That as far as I have planned as yet. At the end of the sale he offered me the last 3 cocks [not pictured] at $5 each so I got them, even though they are not as good as these

My pleasure.

I have never bred from tame birds Michelle, so maybe you should wait for advice from others that have, but my suggestion would be that while your birds are breeding they should be confined to their cage. The amount of time a bird comes off her eggs varies from bird to bird, some only come out to poop & are fed by the cock then straight away back on the eggs. Others will feed themselves from the feed dish & stay out longer. I feel that the fact that she has access to get out of her cage & maybe that the cock isn’t in the cage to greet her, could not be good for successful breeding.

Yes I agree Splat…Nice birds, I’m sure all will be useful in your breeding program. Re the Spangle thing…I have just put down my first pair of Spangle to Spangle to see the results, the hen has British blood & nice big bird, the cock is a smaller bird, but I believe has good wing marking, better than his father anyway. They have only been together three days, the hen went in the nest within hours & both were there yesterday, so I wont have long to wait.

I think with the Ivermectin you have to be lucky & have a vet who is prepared to sell it in the smaller lots, as I have heard, as I think I have said before on this forum, that it’s now been made illegal [by law] to break things up into small lots, without the full instructions of it’s uses & it’s also illegal to use things for things, that haven’t had full testing & approval. Even at my local produce store, if you buy small amounts of chook pellets, they have copies of the label from the larger bags, printed by computer attached. I think part of it came about through the mad cow scare, where people had fed cows with products that were for other animals. Even though the CSIRO have produced work on using Ivermectin, to treat air sac mites in Gouldian Finches. It hasn’t been approved by law, for use on anything other than sheep, goats & cattle [just checked my bottle] says is for use on internal & external parasites…no mention of any birds, poultry etc…just lists the parasites [which are sheep & cattle parasites] then says may not be used for any purpose or manner contrary to this label, unless authorised under appropriate legislation. I have seen that in the USA it’s sold for human hair lice. Like all chemicals you have to use it safely, but from my use it seems very safe, I have accidentally overdosed birds & quickly rubbed as much as possible off & thought I would be in trouble, as it absorbs very fast through the skin, but so far touch wood, no bad effects. Every bird that comes into my place is now dosed straight away on arrival, so I hope I’m getting rid of all internal & external parasites. Before I bought birds that looked healthy, but after some months I started to see scale mite coming on lots of my birds, since its use no further cases. Lisachilton…glad you didn’t loose any of the other birds. By poison, I meant that if you didn’t put anything like plants or branches in, different than usual, it may have been a poison through the food, maybe mice contamination. Or even something to do with the soil floor you had, maybe it got wet or some fungus bred in it. I think it is probably pretty safe if nothing has happened already with the other birds. I think that like you say if you are concreting the floors & have tried to limit access to mice & rats & also make sure if you aren’t already, to protect their food where you store it, you shouldn’t have any more trouble, at least I hope not. After you concrete each floor wash everything with water with household bleach [cheap] & probably replace all perches & start a new. Doesn’t that wormgel have instruction on how often to use it? If not I have never used it; you will have to wait for someone that advised you to use it can advise you, on here. Good Luck. PS. I think you are okay with your wormgel & spray for now…but just a thought, if your in a rural area & can’t get your vet to supply small amount of Ivermectin, try to find some farmer that is using it & buy a small amount from him.