Norm

By Double Factor I’m guessing you mean DF Spangle? And I’m guessing it is Yellow? If so you will probably get all single Spangles in the Green series, depending what both the DF Spangle & Lutino are masking. If both are split for Blue some Blues & all Females will be Lutino masking Spangle & Cocks split for Lutino.

You better wait for Daz to answer that, but they are some spray probably put out by Vetafarm.

Looks like the breeder was right & I was just a little impatient, yesterday when I looked at them the largest had a couple of pin feathers near the legs where the feathers had started to open & it definitely looked like violet. Today colour was coming out on them all, all four are YF2 the oldest looks violet & maybe some of the others are too, but they have the Sea Green look coming through the colour. Amazing how a couple of days make such a different, they just looked Black before. Two are Spangle. Yes I will get some pictures soon.

Thanks for your in put Daz.

I haven’t hand any experience with anything similar to what you describe, but I think your assumptions are probably right & your decisions not to let the pair breed again & the affected bird, are good.

Thanks Nerwen, as I said I think he is more like Cobalt. This Violet gene is complicated & all the info I collected is on a disc & an external HD but neither will open now for some reason. I have never bred a Violet as yet, so I guess I will just have to be patient for another few days till the pins open & then I can tell more.

I know your going to say where are the pictures…(Laughing out loud)…sorry haven't got any at the moment....Just remembered I had pics. I bought this pair from a local breeder, he said if you pair them up you should get Violets. He called the cock a Violet Spangle, but it looks more like Cobalt to me. It's from a Normal Violet cock & a Cobalt Spangle hen. The hen a YF2 Opaline Sky Blue...from a YF2 Sky Blue Normal cock [must have been split for Opaline]…& Sky Blue Normal hen. She could be Violet Sky Blue that's always talked about on here, but I can't tell. They have 5 chicks at the pinfeather stage, some are Spangle, but all are this very dark colour, almost looks like Grey, but would have to be Grey parents. That's right isn't it? Maybe they are Mauve, could they be carrying enough dark factor for this, or could they be Violets, does that look real dark before the feathers open?

They’re looking good & great pictures. Sorry to hear your sad news, what are you renting & have to move? Are your cages movable?

Thanks for that information on your experience Kaz, as I hoped you would respond, as I had read in older posts that you had some problems with it & also read that you had retained some effected birds as pets. My first experience was with a pair last year they were both birds I had bought from a pet shop the hen could have been old, but the cock I bought while very young. They had had two batches without any sign & then on their third & last batch, the last chick that left the nest dropped its tail & flight feathers, I thought straight away that it was French Moult, but the feathers grew back so quick I forgot about it. I have two areas of aviaries, this occurred in the bottom area, but then this year a couple of months ago a pair that included a male from one of this pairs chicks, paired with an unrelated chick had their first batch, the first chick was normal then the rest of the chicks four in number dropped their flights, one chick died, also as with your batch their was an unrelated chick fostered with them that was unaffected. I thought I would let them have another batch, but all chicks in that batch were affected. So I stopped them. The mother & father of the first batch last year have both died from some illness & I lost a couple of their young also, some of that batch were quite nice, so I have mated them with other, what I think are stronger lines & will keep chicks from them. Only one of these pairs has produced one FM after having normal seemingly unaffected chicks. The hen that was the first to drop her flight feathers has been bred this year, she hasn’t produced a FM chick, but has started to feather pluck her batches. I have only lost birds from this family & another, as I think both families seem less strong than most of my birds. I haven’t had a case of FM in the bottom aviary area, where the first case occurred last year, all cases so far have been in the top area, where their male chick had that nest of FM’s. I had one case in the next aviary to them & in a bird room there where I must have either spread it during my feeding or maybe by the wind [dust]. I have read like you say that some suspect moths & mites, but these seem to be old sites & from about the 1990’s the scientists seem to have found it is a virus. So far most of my chicks have grown back their feathers only a few seem like they wont & all seem quite healthy apart from the feather loss. Another thing I have noticed, but maybe birds do it all the time, but I have only noticed in the aviary where some FM chicks were, is that I have observed birds chewing feathers that have fallen out of FM chick, this may help to spread it.

After having a couple of cases of FM… French moult…Polyoma virus, I have been reading all I could find on the net. From what I have read from the experts, once you get it in the aviary it spreads to 100% of birds, but it only has an effect on young birds before they leave or just on leaving the nest. Then after some time, most of the birds become immune to it, in something like 4 to 12 months. A few birds become carriers. Things I have noticed are that some birds must have some natural immunity as with most things, as I have had single cases in some nests, while all other babies appeared unaffected. I have had cases in five nests so far, since the first case occurred after not having any problems before. It is often known as Budgerigar Feather disease, which may suggest that it’s pretty common in Budgies, but they say that Cockatiels & African Lovebirds are very prone to it, I have both these breeds & have been breeding them for something like 12 years & never had a case, it must have been introduce with some new birds, that didn’t show it but were carrying it. So far there have been no cases in these two breeds maybe it will still spread. I noticed in a cage next to the cage where the first case occurred, that had a couple of young birds that left the nest without signs of the disease, but subsequently dropped the main tail feathers which later grew back, but some had the pale colour [bleached look] that is present in feathers that grow back in some FM cases. I am thinking that they got FM just in time to have some effect, but only minor, older birds show no effects even if as I read it has spread to all birds. What I have decided to do, whether it is good judgement or not I don’t know. I had moved some young to my young birdcages, which appeared okay, but later dropped their flight feathers, at first I was scared, but have now had a rethink & decided that it’s too late to isolate, which I tried at first but this failed as it still spread. My thoughts now are that maybe it’s better to introduce it into my young bird flock & if most birds become immune in a few months, they will then be immune by the time they breed. In America you can apparently get a vaccine, but this is not available in Australia. If when I start breeding with these young birds if further cases occur these must be carrier birds, so should be culled. I think I will cull also birds that don’t grow back their feathers on the assumption that these may be carriers. From what I have read things can be a lot worse than I have experienced, you can have dead in shell & birds that suddenly die, apart from the first nest where one bird suddenly died at about two weeks, which in hindsight, must have been the first sign, I haven’t had any of these worse effects, maybe there is already some level of immunity already in my flock or I have got a less virulent strain of FM. I would be interested in your thoughts.

I put one of my cocks with the Cinnamon Green hen [one of the best] & she has gone down on eggs again & I checked her eggs yesterday & at least one had veins started, so at least she can produce fertile eggs. The other cock with one of my hens has hatched 5 chicks, they are not with show type birds, but hopefully I will get some improved birds.

I thought the same as Macka that it might be a runner. Did you cut his wings also? Even so he could make a good pet, lots of runners grow back some of their feathers, only time will tell. At least with this virus, with your other bird being older it wont effect it, it seems to only effect their feathers, at the in nest stage. I agree with the others that it's a Grey Spangle & also looks like a male. At least he seems young, I think part of the problem you are having with your other bird being tame, is that it was probably already quite old when you got it, it's good to get them as young as possible.

Thanks Lady, he has settled in well & at least is active, so I live in hope.

Nice chicks Kaz & great pictures, I wish I could get more time to take some pics of mine. But it's hard to get good pics, need lots of patience. I'm also sure that's not true Aly.

The Ivermectin we have in Australia is different, the one we can get here is a pour on for cattle, it’s 10mg/mL it doesn’t contain Slippery Elm. We just put one drop on the skin & that’s enough…it lasts in the body something like 21 days. If it’s made especially for birds I would just follow the instructions & I would agree with Nerwen, I think the skin dose would be more effective, as if water doesn’t taste good Budgies may not drink for some days.

I agree with Nerwen, it hasn’t moulted yet, even the Cinnamon bars still look immature feathering.

I'm thinking it's a Recessive Pied from the discription, Recessive seems to often do strange things to feather colours & often they don't moult out their bars.

My thoughts exactly, Pie And I agree.

Yes & we know why don't we Aly…[named after Aly] Ali Baba & the 40 thieves…is Kaz trying to tell us something…has she been missing some birds after your visits…he he he (Laughing out loud)…

For some reason I can’t see the picture? It must be just normal for Budgie eggs, Duck eggs whites don’t turn out so white at hens eggs when you cook them.

Hi Madman_CZ…I must congratulate you on your extremely kind attitude & love you have for your birds that comes from reading your posts. You have some pretty lucky birds, living I think in a bird paradise. I think that room must get a little messy now that you have the 4 birds. Seeing that you now have 4 adult birds don’t they try to breed somewhere in that room, as you have them at liberty all day? As to getting the new birds to start eating vegetables, just keep giving them some small quantity every day & they will soon get the idea, the same with the water container, Budgies can go for quite some time without drinking, just remove the dish & leave your drinker, fill it completely & you will soon see it go down if they start drinking which I’m pretty sure wont be too long. No one seems to have told you the names of the mutations you have in your birds, so in case your interested you have…left to right in your last picture… A hen Yellow Faced type 2 Blue Recessive Pied…seeing she is Recessive she will keep those black eyes for her whole life, it’s one of the characteristics of them. Next cock Grey Green Spangle…hen an Opaline Sky Blue Spangle Dominant Pied. Cock Yellow Faced type 2 Sky Blue Normal. As to how Pipina gets mad as it gets dark…I think she is just by nature an aggressive type female, some are more than others & the aggression I think you see towards night is normal, it’s a scary time for them in their natural habitat in Australia & they need to have a safe area around themselves, so I think it’s just a normal reaction. Also nice birds.

The luck is that the Cinnamon Grey cock, from the birds I bought at the sale in June, mated with one of my hens has hatched 5 young so far one egg to go. Wish I had got that hatchability with the better birds instead of all clear. My first batch of Texas Clear Body, from the TCB I bought & an Opaline Light Green hen, has only hatched two young so far out of six, doesn’t look like they will get anymore & because the cock is split for Lutino, one chick is a Lutino hen, it means I have only a 25% chance of hen TCB’s. The other chick is at least a split TCB cock or TCB hen. One of their first eggs I gave to another pair because she didn’t sit on it, has turned out an Opaline Light Green so a split TCB cock at least. The one Fallow cock I have which I tried for months to get some splits from, has at last since I gave it a new young hen I bred, hatched 6 chicks, I think one more egg to go. Also one Lutino hen I mated to a nice Grey Green cock who I had almost given up on, as thought their eggs were over due, hatched two one day & another two the day after. I want to have some splits to improve some of my Lutinos for mating later in my TCB breeding. Also had a show breeder visit me Sunday & look at my birds before we went to the Taree Budgie club meeting…saw some nice birds, one bought from the Hill auction for $1500…We found out one bird I bought from a pet shop was bred from a big breeder that wouldn’t sell me any birds, so I got some of his blood anyway. Nice looking bird I have bred some nice young from, but he doesn’t like feeding chicks. The bad news is that the FM seems to be spreading, has anyone had experience of how to stop it, maybe I will have to stop breeding for months or even a year, that would be a great disappointment, now I have some show type stock I want to breed. At least it only seems mild as birds only dropping a few wing Feathers not even their tails & I think most will grow back. A couple more nests have had one or two young with it.

Nice birds Splat, will be good to see how the young turn out

Yes I saw that article too & worries me about adding Calcium to their water, as then they have no choice of whether to take it or not. Calcium blocks or cuttle fish seem better as then they can choose.

You may also get some White faced Blues, as I did from two YF2 & they are not DF YF's.