Norm

You could mate him with anything you like, if the Lutino is not split for Blue you most likely would get Green Normals, depending on what the Lutino is masking. I still think he is an YF2 Blue of some kind. Sounds like he would be a good bird to refer to Al-Nasser, for an expert opinion. If he is a YF it’s really best to mate them to Blue series bird otherwise the YF is masked by the Green being Dominant, but then it’s impossible to know which one carries the YF gene.

They will have gorgeous chicks… I better stop there…no seriously. As Ikon has said the ones with plum eyes will be Cinnamon hens. As others have said I am just the opposite of you Kaz…male…males & more males…must be in the water. Cinnamon hens…split Cinnamon Cocks [if any] 50% chance of Spangles & 50% Normals & 50% chance Dominant Pied. I would think mostly Sky Blues, maybe Violet Sky Blue & maybe some Cobalt’s [not sure about that Violet gene still got me confused]. Don't think there's enough dark factor for Violets.

If you read that article Ravengypsy, you will read that he bought them from a market, so could never be sure, but they produced some birds that looked like they had Recessive Pied in them. I’m always on the look out at pet shops etc for birds that might have hope to breed them by selection, it would be a long process, but would be a dream if it happened. I got one bird, a Recessive Pied that looked hopeful, but failed to fill eggs. Seems the guy in the Netherlands had big losses, with breeding them, which I think is common with new mutations, as really each mutation has lost something from the wild type, the guy that bred Dusks seems to have had high losses also.

I guess if we carried the cannibalism thing to extremes we shouldn’t be feeding hard-boiled egg in the soft food. All I do with my birds is feed a mixed variety of seeds, some grit & sand, cuttlefish when available. The only additive I place in my water is a little Apple Cider Vinegar. Soft food almost every day in the aviary & breeding cabinets. Soft food contains Chicken starter, for added protein & additives [less expensive than Budgie starter] Arrowroot Biscuits & Shredded Wheatmeal Biscuits, hard-boiled eggs, now & then a very small amount of Tincture of Iodine, dissolved in water, Corm nibblets & grated carrots. Some of my aviaries don’t receive direct sunlight. But I give almost daily lots of wild Greens; seeding grasses [mostly Green Panic, which I grow] my main weed is Farmers Friend, as it’s my most common weed, so gotta make some use of it. Suppose to be high in Magnesium. Milk thistles & some weeds I don’t know the names of. In winter Silver Beet. I have the materials to make mineral blocks, but still haven’t got around to that. I don’t see any mineral or vitamin deficiency, only the occasional soft shell egg. I loose a few birds, but I think this impossible to completely stop, all that live must one day die. Mostly I have healthy babies, mostly at least four up to eight or nine in a batch. Eggs mostly at least six on occasions up to 8 to 10. On the whole I think my birds are healthy, without all the expensive additives. I have improved pet types & show birds. They also recieve Eucalyt braches.

If you got some you would have to breed them separate, as they would stuff up the accepted Budgie model [standard of perfection]. I have a theory that they may be a “Throwback” to a more primitive stage of Budgie development in the wild, as they would be perfectly camouflaged. As they say Dave “LOVE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER”

Yeah I would love to have some…all the info on the net seems some years old & apparently he wouldn't give any stock to anyone else, so lets hope it still is in existence. He found the first birds in a market…so shows you should always be on the lookout for new mutations…sometime someone breeds them that doesn't realise what they are & may sell them. From that article that Derek shows, they are saying they could already be extinct. Sad if that is true.

I don’t think he’s a Violet Green, as I have one Opaline Violet Green & it’s a beautiful Emerald Green. I paired it with an Opaline Violet Sky Blue & all young were Opaline Violet Greens. Some have Green all over their heads, where the Opaline is usually Yellow, right down to the cere, probably this may moult out, I must post some pictures soon. To complicate the issue, I have seen birds on the net that they call Parblue… PARtBlue…PARtGreen. Maybe he is that instead of just Violet Blue.

Like Nerwen says, they always advise mating an INO to a good Normal that is split to Ino. To improve your birds, as I think with most Recessives if you continue to mate R to R, size will deteriorate. Your birds look quite good type so you could use them with reasonable results. If your Lutino is split for Blue you could get some Lutinos, some Lacewing hens [which could either be White or Yellow] Albinos & even some Creaminos Yellow Faced Whites. If she is not split Blue, all your chicks will be Green series, Lutino & Yellow Lacewings.

And a Budgie eating chicken is basically cannibalism. Bird eating bird… which is often, what some of mine try, as I’ve found if you have a bird that dies, if you don’t see it quick it gets mauled by the living. Sweet little things our Budgies.

Liv, I wouldn’t get stressed out about it, I have noticed that symptom on some of my birds & other peoples birds & have always wondered about it, but to me it seems quite common & as yet haven’t seen it lead to something real bad. I have had birds with psittacosis before & never got sick myself, although it can be spread to humans, even though my Doctor told me it couldn’t. People in large cities are exposed to it every day from pigeons, as it’s also known as pigeon & parrot disease. In humans it’s known as Chlamydia. If your worried I just wouldn’t keep it in the house with your family, but wouldn’t let it freak you out.

You are right about draughts, they are a bird’s worse danger, but as to heating, in the Australian situation no artificial heat is necessary. They are quite a tough bird & evolved in the Australian outback, where they experience desert type conditions, hot days & sometime in the winter quite cold night. As long as you do what your doing, keep your Budgie out of draughts & cover it at night, unless sick it needs no artificial heat, in fact giving artificial heat would only prevent it’s own body from adjusting to the changes around it.

That’s a really great series of pictures you have there, good job. My best guess of their genetic mutation still stands the same. The cock bird is a Yellow Face2 Blue [Violet] the type 2 has the Green bleed through the body. Because he has that patch on his head he is either split Recessive Pied or in fact genetically a Dominant Pied. We had a discussion on here a few months ago & I think it was decided that a very small patch was a sign of Recessive & the larger patch [which your birds have] was Dominant. To be certain you could only prove it by more trial breeding with certain birds. I don’t know what others believe, but I think for a bird to be Dominant Pied, as it can’t be split for Dominant, it only has to have a small patch of Pied feathers to be genetically Dominant Pied. Those “Green” young must also be YF2 Blues also, even though they look very Green, as Green is Dominant & you can’t get Green birds from two genetically Blue birds. The Blue Normal chick appears to be either Cobalt or Violet.

I wouldn’t be that keen in feeding chicken bones to birds of any description, as I think they are too closely related to them & could spread some diseases, although if well cooked I guess most disease organisms would be sterilized.

For some reason when I said DEC for #16 I didn’t notice that it had a Yellow Faces, so I’m saying now YF DEC. I didn’t say anything about your Olive as I agree with you. #13 doesn’t look that old if it gets an iris ring, it would be a Double Factor Spangle.

As you say it’s hard to tell from your pictures, as they are unclear. Like Elly has said maybe she has just ruptured a blood quill, as it’s emerging as she moults, I have noticed lots of people stress out with this on this forum. It’s a pretty common occurrence, especially with birds with lots of directional feathering [show types] on their heads. It looks bad, but I never do anything about it & in a day or so all trace has gone. If she is rubbing on a Cactus as you say, I think it would be best to remove this possibility in case she is actually injuring herself.

okay this is my two cents on this…my thoughts…on your Lacewing cock, his mother was an Albion, so we can’t be sure of her genetic makeup…the father to me looks like a Dilute Green Spangle [what do others think?]…He must be split for Cinnamon, as some of those Melanistic Spangles look like Cinnamons to me. If he is Spangle you might think that the Melanistic came form him, but it also could have come from the Albion hen, as we don’t know what she is masking. If Ino’s can mask their true genetics maybe Lacewings can do the same, maybe why your Lacewing didn’t show his marking until the first moult is because he is also a Spangle or even a Melanistic. What were his chicks with the Opaline Grey hen Karen? Did he produce any Spangles? If he’s a Lacewing his hens should have been Lacewings?

I believe you Thanks Elly, I hope I'm right.

Liv, I’m glad that your going to make some use of Big Grey, when I think you said you weren’t going to breed again for awhile I thought that was a pity, as would like to see if he can father some chicks for you. Are you going to breed them in a cabinet so you can be sure if the chicks are his this time? If it works you will probably get some DF Spangles [white] young, but some could be YF, that would be interesting.

Those babies are not Green chicks, as said a front picture would be good, but they both look like YF2 chicks to me.

I have also always given my birds shell grit, I also give them a dish of river sand & they are always keen when I place new dishes in. As far as I know all grain eating birds need some form of grit whether they shell their seed or not. Like Chryoscome says birds don’t have teeth & use grit of some form to grind it in their gizzard. I have never had a problem with compaction, at least that I was aware of, I suspect that birds that had been deprived of grit may eat excessive amount when first given some. I have often read that breeders give birds some form of meat or sheep fat, but so far I have never tried it.

I agree with Kaz, your bird is a Golden Faced 2 Violet, the spot on the males head means he is either split to Recessive Pied, but because of the size of the spot on the chick that is shown, my theory is that he is in fact a Dominant Pied, but the spot is the only sign of that.

Welcome back Merlin…some birds are spoilt rotten aren't they? I bet he's happy to be back home. If he lived with me he would have had to get a brush & help with the painting, instead of off to some holiday resort until it was all over.

Welcome Aaron to the forum…I hope you get interested in breeding Budgies & that we can help you with any advice. But as to housing Budgies in the same building as your poultry, that wouldn’t be advisable as poultry are much more resistant to bird diseases than Budgies would be & diseases from the poultry could easily spread to them. I would advise keeping your Budgies as far away from your chooks as possible. If you use an area that has been used previously by poultry, make sure it’s cleaned well & treated for mites etc.

This bird isn't a true Rainbow as it's missing the Clearwing gene...YF2 Opaline Spangles can also look a lot like Rainbows, but aren't the true Rainbow which is YF2 Blue Opaline Clearwing.