Rainbow

I don't agree. I imagine that we wouldn't want anyone to not ask a question just because it may be controversial. :yelling: If there is a sincere desire to learn behind the asking, no question is wrong. However a database search should already be the first thing you do before posting a new question anyway, as what you are looking for may have already been answered in a previous thread. In this particular instance, it has been discussed plenty. But any further questions on this topic that have not been addressed already are, of course, welcome.

Oh, that is just heartbreaking. Bless you for taking him in, though, and giving him access to the veterinary care he so obviously needs. Is there any thought he will figure it out from watching the other birds? If he can feed the bird in the mirror, did the vet suggest putting one back in his cage?

So do I... Keep us posted on your progress!

If he is doing it during or after feeding, he may just have a husk or seed dust in his nose that he's sneezing out. Especially if eating millet spray - mine inhale it like there's no tomorrow and I know the husks are small enough to be breathed in and it will make mine sneeze.

now thats just wrong i can just about get my head round a saftey reason... but for personal reasons, if a person dosent have enough common sense to keep a fully flying bird safe then, no i dont think that they should have a pet bird. just wingclipping for personal reasons is totally selfish. there are other pets available that dont need to be put through this kind of thing just to fit in with a person. The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Andy, did I say what those personal reasons might be? No, I did not. Are you saying someone who is handicapped or in a wheelchair or for whatever other reason is not physically able to chase a fully flighted bird around the house should not have one for companionship? I can come up with more scenarios if you need them, but the point was that there are more reasons than we normally think of for the things people do. :glare: There may be other pets that would fit in with that person, but what if they really love birds and can care for them extraordinarily well in other aspects? How can you dictate who should and should not have a bird?

TIME OUT! Whew, boy, before I start I want to make clear I am not picking on anyone in particular. Actually I'm not picking on anyone at all, but I will use some quotes - it is in no way, shape, or form, personal. But I have noticed something about the responses here that I believe need to be addressed. Where is the objectivity? If you were to take your bird, clip his wings, and set him free, then yes, that is cruel and fits this description of disabling. Then not only can he not fly well, he also won't have a clue how to find food or escape predators or anything else wild birds do. Wild birds live outside. Wild budgies live outside. Tame or pet budgies do not. That already puts them in a different category. Apples to apples. We automatically disable a bird by keeping him as a pet. We prevent them from doing what they would normally do by bringing them in the house or aviary in the first place. Does this mean no more pets? What other birds? The other birds in the house? If they are all trimmed, they are all equally able to do whatever they do. If not the birds in the house, the only other comparison you have is the birds outside in the wild. Are the things we have indoors to make our lives easier naturally occurring in the wild so that our birds know what they are and what they do automatically? You can't compare apples and oranges. You have not stopped a wing, claw, or leg from working by trimming the wings. The wings still work. They are not broken. Your bird can still use them. However, you are also stopping a bird from doing something to his fullest extent when you tell him no, he can't chew up your antique furniture, (after all, parrots chew) and move him to a different spot. You are also stopping a bird from doing something to his fullest extent when you cage him. Have you ever seen a bird in the wild willingly stay in an 18" x 18" x 18" area? Or even a 12' x 4' x 6' area, or whatever size an outdoor aviary might be? Everyone who has been here any time at all knows what a charged topic wing trimming is. Please, lets try to keep personal feelings out of it. If someone asks about wing trimming, then that question should be answered without judgement calls. A person should not be made to feel badly about making a decision to trim the wings. It's fine to list pro's and con's about it, and that really needs to be done in order for anyone who is asking to make an informed decision about whether to trim or not. Let's be objective. If you are trimming for personal reasons and not safety reasons, so what? You are. That is just the fact. It does not make anyone a bad person, it does not mean they should not have a bird, it does not mean there is anything wrong with them whatsoever. It does mean that maybe someone else won't agree with your decision. That's about it. We all know there are ways to phrase things to either prove or disprove our own personal slant, and there are also ways to phrase things that take personal opinion out of the picture and leave just facts. Objectivity. This discussion is good, as it allows everyone to put their knowledge and experiences in the collective hat, so to speak. Let's keep it going if it needs to be kept going, but be objective about it. It's not wrong to trim wings, it's not right to trim wings, it just is a wing trim. It is something that is done to birds in our society. (It is much better than a leg-iron, or pinioning, I think.) Whether we like it or not, it happens. The best thing we can do is give accurate, unbiased information and let each person decide for themselves what best fits their situation, and what they are comfortable with. okay, rant is over. Resume discussion.

The article has some good points, but there are just as many points that are "slanted" to get across the authors point of view that are not accurate. I generally take any article that contains a lot of absolutes and personal slants with a grain of salt. After all, it is only their personal opinion. Not right, not wrong, just the author's point of view. The ability to fly well thing is not true. I can personally attest to that, as mine can do some arial acrobatics that just make you go "wow", and they've been clipped before. But my opinion is that most baby birds are clipped too soon and there is no denying a bad clip can cause pain and deformities. But if the bird received a normal clip (and most birds are probably not damaged from a wing trim - we all know the the horror stories are what stick in people's minds because sensationalism and shock sells...just look at your newspaper or some magazines for proof of that), when the flights regrow and the bird is allowed a bit of practice, the ability to fly well is not compromised.

Birds are also not meant to live indoors or in a cage...there is a whole new set of environmental hazards that are inherent with living indoors with another species (humans) that in their natural habitat they would not be exposed to. Topic moved.

Hi! I don't have an outdoor aviary, but I would think concrete for the floor would be best, as then you could hose it off. If you are going to have it raised off the ground (it sounds like you mean sort of like a huge rabbit hutch?) you wouldn't need to do that, just have some kind of base you could remove to clean out. How big are you going to make it? I wouldn't use kitty litter, sand seems better. And if you are going to keep them outside, you really need to let their flights grow back out before you put them outside. If you haven't already, check out some of the other threads in this section for some ideas. Sorry I can't be of any more help.

If it is a sprain, I think I would curb his out-of-cage time so he does not try to fly on it for about a week. That way I think it would have a better chance of healing.

Tweety is SUCH a pretty pied! You've had much better luck than I have taking pictures with the flash. My birds end up a completely different color when I use the flash. If anyone has a camera that has an adjustable white balance, I've found that maxing that setting out will sometimes compensate for the pictures being dark when you take pictures without the flash. You'll have to play with the setting though, as it can make the pictures look somewhat overexposed if it is too high.

Some birds are sensitive to dust in the seed, and will sneeze after eating or being near the seed cups. Gradually changing the seed over to a better mix can help this if you think it is a possibility. I also think if you have the heat on, it tends to dry out the air and the birds' nasal passages and causes sneezing too.

I've never given seed bells or treat sticks to any of my current birds...

Lucky, lucky you! If you handle them and talk to them every day, they should stay the way they are. Depending on how young they are, right before they go through their first molt, you can expect them to "get atttitude", or "test their boundaries", or whatever phrase best describes the equivalent of the "terrible twos" in people... You will wake up one day and they may act like they've never seen you before! It is normal, and you will just have to work with them a bit more. Once the molt is over, mine settled down, but I clipped them a few weeks before the molt really started, and that helped considerably...but I had so many it was necessary. And you may find your nasty female ends up the tamest of them all!

I gave mine some of those tonight, as a matter of fact! It's funny you should ask about them. I put them on the top of their cages tonight, and for about 3 minutes they all just eyed them in that way they have... LOL...then Arctic started beaking one, so that caused Mystery, Blueberry, And Sky to all want to check them out too. Mystery picked one up and threw it off the cage, which of course made a loud noise when it hit the floor. All the birds just cocked their heads and looked down at the ground. It was the funniest thing! That was all the interest it held for Mystery, but Blueberry threw all the rest off, too, and waited for me to put them back up. She must've thrown them off for me to retrieve 5 times before she got bored...I had 4 of those balls, so twenty times...that's a pretty good attention span for one bird, I think! Sky threw them off once or twice, then they all lost interest. All in all, I think it was not bad for the first time!

Yes, I agree, but welcome anyway, NewBird! To answer your question, your birds will start a new clutch when the babies begin to fledge. It is a normal occurrance.

Football for us is completely different than rugby or soccer. It turns people into television zombies for months on end...

Hi maltabudgie, good to see you here again. I would Take out the cockatiels...

Ah, dear...they will breed if conditions are right. That is how I ended up with so many in my living room. If you plan on keeping all the babies, how will you prevent inbreeding once they are all in the aviary?

Please tell me you are in Celcius??? 45 degrees here is a bit on the COOL side!!!!

http://www.holisticbird.org/ You might want to have a look at this site. I got a lot of information there when Rainbow was sick. The search function is great, just type in liver or kidney or whatever you want and you may find some good information there. If you find something you think has promise, call your vet and ask about it. There aren't many holistic avian vets, but I think your vet would be willing to discuss treatment options.

Thanks Gill - I made a new topic in the breeders chat forum. If you could take a look over there it would be great. This will make it easy: http://www.daves-forums.co.uk/bbc/index.ph...wtopic=2301&hl=

I'm sorry your bird isn't feeling well. I'd schedule another trip to the vet's if I were you. The liver damage is probably what's causing the green color to the droppings, since you say he has always been like that. Sometimes it will cause them to be somewhat yellowish too. Unfortunately, I know from experience excessive water intake can be due to kidney failure. If his kidneys and/or liver is failing, he will have trouble eliminating normal toxins from his system. Does he still eat well, or has he begun to pick around the seeds more than eat them? I would definitely not give him grit, as less than healthy birds tend to overindulge in it and it causes digestive problems anyway, which is not something you need right now. The vet should be able to do a physical exam and let you know if any tumors exist. If he does not think tumors are present, that's good news. Have you done a google search for holistic bird care? That may also be an option for you to look at and discuss with your vet. If your bird just has weak or diseased organs and not tumors, many times diet can be an effective treatment. Keep us informed.

Take the boxes away and seperate your birds for a while. Continous laying will weaken your bird. Have you ever watched a hen lay an egg??? It is very tiring for them. A healthy bird should be able to lay a normal clutch without incident, but from what you have said your birds need a rest.

Thanks, Gillian that was very informative. So far, my brain gets it. But, I have a few questions. I have three blue pieds that the color on the rump area is different than the color on the rest of the body - it is darker. Two are somewhat two-toned in color on the backside (one is pretty obvious), the color across the mantle is different than the color on the rump. The third just has a purplish tint to the feathers on the back of the head and around the bend in the wing. Only two of them are cobalts, the other is probably skyblue. Does this mean they have the violet factor? Neither parent could ever be construed as a violet by any stretch of the imagination, probably not even cobalt. Any ideas?