**KAZ**

single and double factors in what regard ? There are single and double factor spangles single and double factor in pieds etc. You just need to read up on each mutation you are interested in and there will be enough info about DFs there. Or post a question here about a particlar DF you want an answer for.

Common sense and economics would dictate that if a petshop gives you $5 per bird then you arent selling anything worthwhile for that $5.

A bird dealer will tell you anything that makes them a sale.

Message from Hans Hans Christian Østergaard Hope all the budgerigar and komittee members in Australien (world)know what a great work Karen is doing 2 display the budgerigar hobby al ower. Care on the good work Karen ;O)) K. Regards. Hans

So, in essence Liam, what you may have gleaned from these posts is 1. A club membership will help you learn what to look for before purchasing birds that arent right for show breeding. 2. Club membership will give you access to both birds and breeders who do care what they sell you, especially if their is a duty of care, a code of ethics established within the club to back up sales of birds through the club. 3. Yes, you will find birds at a pet shop they may look the part and will in some cases be breeders culls and have legrings with codes on them. Some may be fine and some may have been culled for good reason. Some may be infertile. Some may be internal egglayers. Some may be egg eaters. Some may have had illness go through, been medicated and now wont breed. Or some may just be not big enough or right for the breeder who culled them. 4. Never assume pet stores are the source of cheaper birds than a breeder. Many breeders sell good birds starting from around $20. The best cock I ever had was bought from a nationals breeder for only $19. When a breeder can only get well under $10 from a pet store why wouldnt they try and sell their better ones for more through their clubs or fellow breeders ? 5. Anything worthwhile will first have been sold to another breeder, or through the club, or given to help another breeders. Its the "dregs"that get sold off to pet shops. I wont sell a bird with issues myself. I dont want another person buying a bird they think they can breed with and find its a dud. Anything with serious issues gets culled in a permanent way.........internal egglayers etc. Show breeders who have answered here who do sell to pet stores or have experience in this area have been honest with you about the way they analyse what goes to a pet store. Others will see things from their angle as a buyer from a pet store. I used to buy from pet stores in the early days thinking I was buying show birds. Very little, if anything. I bought then was of real use to me or continued on with using. So, educate yourself first about what you have to look for before choosing your birds and then make an informed decision about where you would rather buy them

I disagree with this statement... Culls that go to dealers are the same culls that breeders try to sell off at inflated prices. Culls are culls. Do you honestly think breeders send their bad culls to the dealer and try to sell their good culls privately. I think too many people are hypnotized by the fact that dealers are selling birds to them directly. Ooh it's from a breeder, it must be a great bird! Do not get caught up in the hype. Breeders sell just as much **** as dealers. Just as a bird in a dealer may have a problem, a breeders birds could equally have a problem, hence the sell off. Keep your eyes, ears and mind open. That's my advice. The best club rung hen I had last year was a pet shop cull for $15. Like a breeder is going to sell you top quality birds at a reasonable price? Yeah right! Most show breeders in our club regularly bring for sale birds to meetings between the $20 and $30 range. Within a club, face to face, there is a code of ethics about what we sell to each other. There is an expected code of conduct and a kind of guarantee. There is no such code of ethics to birds shopped off to pet stores. The mere fact that pet stores pay so little for the birds in the first place means that a breeder may not care what they are selling to a pet store. For instance why sell a bird they can get $30 upwards ( from a fellow club member ) when they may only get $5-$8 from the pet store ? So, in essence the breeders rubbish mostly is what goes to a pet store. Yes you will get a bird or two worthwhile or one you can use from a pet store and sometimes a breeder will sell better quality to a particular pet store than most BUT my point I was trying to make is If you go to a club you will learn what to look for in choosing real show breeding stock and not just guess when you see anything of a reasonable size in pet store stock.

Its just great that important people in the world of budgerigars take the time to help us all in this way, not to mention that Hans is a very lovely man

and here is the article/discussion that goes with jens randomly posted pink budgie photos http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/forum/showthr...dgerigar-photos you will note the pink colour is over the top of other colour making it an APPLIED colour.........an ink or dye

Opaline baby and is female.

Like I said to JB pulling random photos off the net with no accompanying info is likely to get you misled. I have seen these photos before and the talk that went with it. Another example of fake pink budgies

Without photos and proof its all TALK .......................smoke and mirrors. Funny how there is always an excuse about photos.

Overshowing good birds can take a toll on them healthwise. Its all about stress levels.

Try for a decent photo or two Ratzy

Most people end up buying anything they think looks like a show type bird and in partuclar because it looks bigger and better than their pet types and has a legring on...dont. Learn what you need to be looking for first by joining a club and seeing the birds. There are always birds for sale through cloubs and members. Better buying that way mostly than trying to find culls in petshops. There's usually a reason birds are culled to petshops so you may be buying a problem. You cannot colony breed show birds....some people still think they can. You will need breeding cabinets for them and a good space to fly.

I am real sorry to hear this Alicia. Did you introduce a new bird without quarantine ? and the new bird was incubating psittacosis ?

Wonderful result..............great job !!!! :Looking forward to hatchings.

If you were told the strength to make it.........quarter teaspoon to 100ml, then that is the STRENGTH it needs to be regardless of how much they drink. And it must be made fresh each day. Try and keep it out of direct sunlight too as it goes off in sunlight. You could try and make one eighth of a teaspoon to 50 ml though

I so totally agree with Dave.

Has to be made fresh daily. Cannot be made up in advance. Must not feed soft food or vegies during that time. Must remove all sources of calcium ( bells, mineral blocks ) from the cage. No other source of water. and you really need to phone the vet and ask him again for the duration he requested.

New interview from Hans Christian Østergaard international budgerigar judge and champion breeder http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....c=28483&hl= Translated from Danish so may need some adjustment.

INTERVIEW Kindly given BY Hans Christian Østergaard OF Viborg, Denmark International Judge and Champion Breeder. ( Interview translated by Karen from Danish and may need some corrections. ) Website http://www.danpromedia.com/hans/news.php Q1. AT WHICH POINT IN TIME DID YOU FIRST DEVELOP AN INTEREST IN BUDGERIGARS ? I got my first Pet budgerigar when I was 8 years old. Q2. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST AVIARY/BREEDING ROOM LIKE ? I had an old chicken house I used for the budgerigars. I colony bred also known as Flock mating. Q3. WHERE DID YOUR FIRST BIRDS COME FROM AND OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME DID YOU CONTINUE WITH THESE LINES ? As a 18 year old I had my first exhibition budgerigar from the late Knud Heine Nielsen. One of the contemporary leading breeders. Subsequently, I bought most of my birds from another top breeder in DK. Ole H. Gade Q4. ARE YOUR PRESENT BIRDS FROM THESE SAME BLOODLINES, IF NOT WHAT BLOODLINES HAVE IMPACTED MOST WITHIN YOUR STUD? In the last century - the early 90s I lost most of my birds (disease) and started again from scratch. Through the '90s I bought from a handful of breeders in GB and in 1996 from Jo Mannes. Over a few years, I bought from a handful of breeders in Germany, Mannes related birds. These birds I've worked with up to 4 years ago and of course still do. Those are my mane lines. Q5. HOW DO YOU PREPARE YOUR BIRDS FOR THE BREEDING SEASON? Extend the Daylight to 16 hours and follow up feed in quantity. For 400 gram of White-Molen egg food I use 1 raket appel, 1 spoon of a blend of blend together: 100 gram of morning tea or green tea, 30 gram Temian, 15 gram salvie, 30 gram Oregano, 100 gram drey petersille, 50 gram white garlic, 50 gram hip powder. As mentioned 1 spoon of this blend. 4 teaspoon of Breed Max vitemin powder. Daily i boil in water and 1 Dcl. Olive oil - 1 kg of my seed blend. This instead of sprouted seed. Around 1 teaspon of this to every breeding cage, more if there is babies in nest. Birds in the flight and flight cage have it for an hour to eat of. When breeding I also give my birds Broccoli and other known kind of greenfood. The reason whey Im not give my birds carrot is that theres to much Vitamin A. To much Vitamin A can give problems for the babys. Its like poisons - can give very slow developing or in some case, stop it. In Denmark we cal them atlings. Generaly I´ll say, if you got a good feeding systems and your birds is healthy and productive. Stick to that. Q6. DO YOU SET YOUR BREEDING SEASON BY THE CALENDER OR BY SIGNS OF THE BIRDS BEING READY ? As the birds are ready. Q7. WHEN PAIRING UP DO YOU GO BY PEDIGREE OR VISUAL APPEARANCES OR BOTH ? Both. Q8. HOW CLOSELY DO YOU MATE YOUR BIRDS AND WHAT RELATED MATINGS HAVE BEEN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL? I practice line breeding. It is the way for me to control my breeding program. At 2-3 years after the start of a new line, I make sibling mating. This is to verify how well the properties are stuck in line. Birds after the latter matings will eventually be discarded or used for autcrossing or start a new line. But, for me it is very important, that only the very best of them are used in further breeding! Q9. WHAT VARIETY MIXES DO YOU USE FOR IMPROVEMENT IF ANY OR IS IT BEST TO BEST? after mix I try to avoid light factors X Light factors (sky or lightgreen together) Reason why - to musch ligthfactors together - youl lose down and feather lay and all will be thinner. They will be to Yellow in their feather. Q10. HOW MANY CHICKS AND ROUNDS DO YOU ALLOW YOUR BIRDS TO HAVE? Some females (as humans) can handle 1 other 3rd round But I use some foster birds to assist my breeding birds. Q11. WHAT FEATURES ARE THE HARDEST TO PUT ON A BIRD AND HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT ESTABLISHING THAT FEATURE AND RETAINING IT, THE DIRECTIONAL FEATHER, STRAIGHT BACKLINE, SHOULDER & LENGTH? It all depends on what birds you have. For me, the long feathers on the head, without getting them by the legs and body. But it is the same the world over. Most people think just is not so much about making the feathers at the tail shorter. Q12. WHAT IS YOUR FEEDING PROGRAMME DURING THE BREEDING SEASON AND DOES THIS DIFFER DURING THE NON BREEDING SEASON? Outside the breeding season I run down the amount of light and feeding only dry seed mixture adding just egg food. Q13a. PLEASE DESCRIBE YOUR CURRENT AVIARY DESIGN, SIZE, FLIGHTS, BREEDING CAGE DESIGN AND NUMBER OF CAGES ETC? Q13b. WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE ABOUT YOUR SETUP IF YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO DO SO ? I have 45 breeding cages 60x40x40 with outside nestbox. 2 Inside flights and 2 large flight cages. I use about 20 of my breeding cages for fledged chicks in and rest cages for females who have been breeding. Later into the flight cages and then into the aviaries. Q14. DO YOU USE PREVENTATIVE MEDICATION DURING AND PRE BREEDING SEASON AND IF SO WHAT AND WHY. I use Ivomectin for parasitic worms and keep all kinds of mites in check. It also removes small bacteria. Otherwise, I treat the protozoal, coccidiosis, Canker and whatever else may befall. Q15. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE GREATEST ASSET OF BEING IN THE HOBBY AND WHERE DO YOU SEE THE HOBBY HEADING WITH SO MANY BREEDERS LEAVING TODAY? Believe that overall people want more material possessions... large house, boat, cars and other consumer goods and therefore most couples both work outside the home. Most people need a hobby, something to relax by, and perhaps also challenging. We must get more attention to the hobby, more attention to the wonderful hobby of raising budgerigars. Get more out in the media. Q18. WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A NATIONAL SHOW ? You can thus see how far others have reached in relation to yourself and then of course that the joy of seeing peers. Q19. HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT POINTING A NOVICE BREEDER IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO ENABLE THEM TO REACH THE TOP BENCH IN AROUND EIGHT YEARS? Everything, but they have 2 pay for the Breeding Birds. Important - the birds have to be compatible. Q20. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH BIRDS WITH FEATHER DISORDERS? After white feather. As I se it - the problems comes when using to with, soft and drey feathered birds. It can easily tilt over and then comes the problem with lumbs. Those fully soft feather cannot break throught the feather sack. Especialy the bigger feather, they turn around in the feather sack and is like an infection in the sack. Solutions - breed stiff and hard feather, as fully as possible into your birds. You have to accept that feathers dont fell that much anymore on your birds. The way I do it. Breed it into your birds so that this kind of feather stop at the top of the wings and keep on with those soft fully broad feather, as long as possible, from the top of the wings. Olive oil in the seed will help a bit. It´s a balance but it can be done, and you'll love to whats them in your flights. Q21. WHO HAS INSPIRED YOU THE MOST IN THE FANCY? There are many things. The 70s were the Cage and Avery birds, then Budgerigar World, both the English and German. But otherwise it's the big breeders around the world. Q22. WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR LOWEST AND HIGHEST POINTS IN THE HOBBY ? The greatest pleasures is when things succeed in the bird house and then of course when others appreciate what is done. The worst thing was losing all my aviary in the last century. At a time when almost everything was successful. Got a strange bird in without having had it in quarantine. Q23. WHAT IN YOUR MIND WAS THE BEST BIRD YOU EVER BOUGHT THAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE IN YOUR STUD AND WHAT APPROXIMATELY WAS ITS COST ? For 4 years ago I was very interested in buying a 4 year old Australian Pied Gray he was from another Danish breeder - Erik Andsager. The bird was not for sale. Erik had a good Skyblue cockbird he sat, it had a large tumor and was on his way to budgerigar heaven. I got it home and regained its interest in females. Eric got it back and gave him the chicks and he gave me the AUB. Gray said. The grey has caused a great many good things in my bird teams! ; Bird, Eric had bought from a Dutch top breeder. The bird turned out to click with my lines and therefore I have repeatedly bought and does it again, birds from Jac Cuyten & Co.. Q24. IF YOU WERE JUST STARTING OUT ALL OVER AGAIN AS A NOVICE IN TODAYS WORLD, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU DISPENSE BASED ON WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNT ? Sit back and thoroughly research what breeding budgerigars are. Find a breeder who has birds you like and you can get along with it - ask - LISTEN. Q25. WOULD YOU HAVE A PHILOSPHY TO SHARE THAT HAS HELPED YOU IN DAILY LIFE WITH YOUR BUDGERIGARS ? Try to make your daily chores with the birds at the same time every day and so natural as possible. When you tailor birds, listen to your inituition. Do not worry you do not like. 95% of your success on the show and thus with breeding lies in feathers. The last 5% is obvious - size - balance and position. Q27. GIVEN ALL OF THE ABOVE, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER TIPS OR HINTS ON HOW TO IMPROVE AND SUSTAIN AN EXHIBITION BUDGERIGAR STUD? I see too many breeders who do not pay enough attention to the birds' feather and feather is the important test of a good bird Profile Website http://www.danpromedia.com/hans/news.php Welcome to my Budgie World. A great hobby with a lot of challenge. My name is Hans Chr. Østergaard Brombærvej 2, 8800 Viborg, Denmark Tlf. +45-86 63 92 76 Email:hansc@mail.tele.dk A few years ago my wife Doris and I bought an old country house in a small village, Rindsholm 5 km from Viborg, in the middle of Jutland. Our children has promised many years ago to move from home when they were grown-up. They kept the promise. Today we have more space than ever. The around 280 budgerigars, when finished breeding, has a brick build house of 40 square meter, with 48 breeding cages. Two flights and what else is needed in a modern bird house in 2001. My first budgies was the pet type and I got them when I was 8 year old. I learned a lot from breeding with them and I was hooked. My first exhibition budgie was in the year 1970, when I was 20 years. It all started then. In the late seventies I realized the impotance of knowing and use of feather, and it helps me a lot when I’m pairing up. What's making a good budgerigar is, as I se it, it's stand up on the perch with air between the body and the perch. As few short, narrow, yellow feather and down as possible in that area. Long elegant body , with a bit of swank. Height broad shoulders and a top end like a typical Mannes bird. If a bird like that breed, it’s wonderful. This is what counts. Hope you will excuse me if I boast a bit about show results. It’s a part of introducing myself: Most winning in Denmark from 85 to 95 - am I bad – sorry. Still some on the cards. I’m an international judge and a champion breeder. Results at the Danish Club Show 2000. Adult cock 6th. Adult hen 1st 4th and 6th. Young hen 1st and best breeder in show. At the variety and rare show – Best young hen and cock and best in show and some other major awards. I done it (boast) sorry. It’s hard enough to model them in wood or paint them. There’s more fun in breeding them. The object is to improve and always try to breed them better than you has ever breed them before. Quality first. Find enjoyment in this wonderfull hobby! ================================================================================ ======== Hi Karen, Thanks for that I can help in this project and thus pass on the experience I have done with budgerigar breeding for over 40 years. Hope that someone can enjoy it. Hope it can help just 1 or 2 people

Well said

JB is right...all depends on how much one or more than one person wants that particular budgie

No JB ....where's the wing photos you said you would post with the updates ? Alpaca...............she has scalyface.........you need to treat her

It would have to be a yellowface blue and that why I have asked you for pictures of the WHOLE BUDGIE not just of the feather you are asking about.