Posted April 22, 200619 yr This boy we have on this forum & others tried to identify him but no one has been certain. Well he went through his moult over a month ago and is in good colour now so lets try it again. I still can't get a great photo but I will describe him in natural light, put my idea then post photo's. He looks like a pale lilac colouring, he has brown markings. I think he is: Dominant Pied, Dilute Violet & Fallow. Picture time: This is his parents (daz - he is Jazz' full brother): Edited April 22, 200619 yr by karen
April 22, 200619 yr Author I have no idea but he is absolutely beautiful! can i have him?? Sure! But I don't post overseas so you have to collect him! :hap:
April 22, 200619 yr I'd say he's a dominant pied cinnamon violet. haha, I'm not expert, just trying to learn genetics.. Boy is he gorgeous!! Sooo do you post interstate?!?!? (Laughing out loud).. Kidding.
April 22, 200619 yr Author Just realised from reading a post elsewhere that he can't be Fallow. He doesn't have red eyes!
April 22, 200619 yr Just realised from reading a post elsewhere that he can't be Fallow. He doesn't have red eyes! That's right I'm going to be picky and state Dutch dominant pied Violet Cinnamon. He is a cutie and looks nothing like his parents
April 22, 200619 yr What a beautiful bird. Oh how I would love it if I could mate Jewel (creamino) and Sylvester (dilute yf2) and end up with bubs like that. Stunning!
April 23, 200619 yr Author I'm going to be picky and state Dutch dominant pied Violet Cinnamon. He is a cutie and looks nothing like his parents Okay, Dutch Dominant Pied - is that why his colour is diluted? or is that another track I'm on altogether? I have decided not to ever separate his parents again (not because the male refuses to breed with anyone else) as these 2 have bred gorgeous blues! Mostly blue series with cinnamon wings, like these 2 girls: Okay, just found this: http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/specialist/pieds/tom.html which explains what a Dutch Dominant Pied is! YAY!!! Thanks again Jen! Quickie: is he also dilute as his colour is very pale? Edited April 23, 200619 yr by karen
April 23, 200619 yr Hi Karen, Just like in many other posts like this one, everyone states something as to the colour and type of the budgie being analysed, yet rarely does anyone state the reasons for their conclusions. This way the owner gets an answer but many times doesn’t really understand why his budgie is this or that. In my opinion your budgie is a Dominant Pied Mauve Cinnamon. Why? 1) Dominant Pied, because he is variegated and because he has got the white iris ring in his eyes. 2) Mauve cinnamon, well, cinnamon because his markings are brown and not black as in normal varieties, and mauve because of a colour chart that I find very useful in the analysis of the base colour: WBO Chart 3) I decided to compare some photos to allow me to draw a conclusion. And you must keep in mind the fact that the cinnamon factor causes a certain degree of dilution in the body colour, so: A1 represents a normal green, A2 represents a cinnamon green. B1 represents a normal sky blue, B2 represents a cinnamon sky blue C1 represents a normal mauve, and C2 is your budgie As you can see, the cinnamon series is in fact a bit lighter on the body colour then their normal counterparts, that’s probably the reason for the confusion with Dilute. I do not think he is a Violet, but I see what’s causing the uncertainty. Some cobalt feathers or cobalt patches can be found in many Mauve budgies. You can read about that in this site: Mauves Your budgie is reflecting that especially in the rump area. Although there are Violet forms of Sky Blue and Mauve, the variety known as the real Violet is the cobalt one. I hope this has helped you. :beer:
April 23, 200619 yr Author Thanks so much LusoPeriquito!! It is great information, I am grateful to you for explaining how he is what he is. It has been a 6 month mystery trying to identify him and it makes 100% perfect sense to me now.
April 24, 200619 yr Nice Luso. And sometimes it's hard to remember that no everyone knows what your babbling about with colours ans such. I will try from now on to explain my answers as well. I love the link That's getting saved.
April 28, 200619 yr Author LusoPeriquito, I got this response on another forum in regards to this same post: Your bird is not a mauve.... your bird's dad is a light green, meaning no dark factor. A light green dad cannot have a mauve (double dark factor) son. It's geneticaly impossible. Also, a cinnamon mauve has a greyish body and not a lilac one. Now I feel confused as I am having differing things said by 2 people who know waaay more genetics than me.
April 28, 200619 yr Your right Karen if a no factor dark factor bird is breed against a double factor dark factor bird the best you can hope for is a single factor dark factor bird. Thats is, if you breed a sky blue against a mauve the best you can hope for is a colbolt.
April 28, 200619 yr our bird is not a mauve.... your bird's dad is a light green, meaning no dark factor. A light green dad cannot have a mauve (double dark factor) son. It's geneticaly impossible. Just trying to explain
April 28, 200619 yr Hi Karen, I've stated before in this forum that I'm no expert, I haven't got a degree in genetics, I'm just someone much interested in budgies and willing to do some research in order to help others solve their "mysteries". That means that I may commit some errors and am open to stand corrected and learn from my mistakes. However in this case... I still think I'm right! Yes I know a Light green (no dark factor) couldn't have a Mauve son (two dark factors). Yet I do not think the father is a light green. When you are looking at greywing budgies (like his father) you must keep in mind that the greywing causes a 50% dilution on the body colour. So this would be a good example of a Light Green Greywing: Looking at your budgie (and in comparison to the one above) I would say he is 50% of a Dark Green (one dark factor): As for this comment "cinnamon mauve has a greyish body and not a lilac one" I'm sure that's not right. As you can see in the WBO (World Budgerigar Organization) site, a cinnamon mauve should have a mauve colour, free from any grey suffusion: WBO About the mother, that I think is a DEC (Dark Eyed Clear), she could be masking any shade of blue, because "Like the Lutino and Albino the DEC can mask any colour. For instance, a Yellow DEC could be in fact, an Olive Green DEC or a Light Green DEC." you can read about this in this site: Ghalib In sum, if the father is one dark factor (as I think he is) and the mother could be a one dark factor or even a two dark factor, it is perfectly possible for the son to be Mauve (two dark factors). Ufffffff... this has been a long post!!!! I hope I haven't lost you along the way!! Edited April 28, 200619 yr by LusoPeriquito
April 28, 200619 yr I believe he also has the clearflight gene, as not only does he have some white flights, but his tail is white also. If he were not clearflight, his tail would be either of normal color or diluted normal color. It is possible for the clearflights to not have every flight feather white. Obviously your green male is split for blue. I would guess that the baby's color is a somewhat diluted mauve. I don't quite agree with Luso in that a greywing will have 50% dilution in body color, but most of the greywings are quite diluted. Ideally they are close to normal coloration. I have two greywing hens that have almost normal body color intensity, and they are striking birds. I do think he is a most lovely bird!
April 28, 200619 yr I understand Rainbow's confusion and all the "mess" that talking about greywings causes. We are talking of different varieties as there are: - greywings (grey markings, and 50% body colour when compared to normal budgies) - full body colour greywings (grey markings and bright body colour) - clearflight (very light markings and full body colour) - dilutes (almost completely washed out markings and body colour) As I said, I think Karen's is a Greywing diluting Dark green. Probably Rainbow´s budgies are full body colour greywings. :beer:
April 28, 200619 yr The greywing twins are in front, normal black hen in back. The body color is almost full intensity, but the wings are about 50% of normal color. Luso, I agree with you that Karen's adult male is probably a dark green. But I didn't think that clearflight and dilute were greywing attributes. Clearflight I associate with pieds, dilutes with any type. I thought they were carried in different places on the gene.
April 29, 200619 yr Hi Rainbow! Here is an article (see the link posted) from a specialist, Mr. Ghalib Al-Nasser, that puts everything in to perspective much better then I ever could. About Greywings, Clearwings and Dilutes he states that: “In fact all the three varieties are separate mutations of the same gene and form what is known as a multiple allelomorph”. And goes on to explain that: “something quite unusual happens when pairing a Greywing to a Clearwing. Here the resulting young will posses the combination of both varieties in one bird and are called "full bodied Greywings". Read all about here: Al-Nasser :beer: This has been a very interesting topic, as it has made me research quite a bit to back up my opinions. But Karen hasn’t said anything yet….. Karen are you getting every thing we have been babbling on about??
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now