Can anyone suggest what I might get if I were to breed my male recessive pied (body mainly white, cinnamon wing spots and head bars, and violet belly (looks blue on monitor but is visually violet), with my female dilute opaline (she is blue but not sure what colour of blue - sky maybe?)

 

Tazzy (male)

 

Tweety (female)

 

I don't plan on trying to breed until 2007 - I'm just curious.

Still learning going to through it out...(Nerwen, Rainbow, Hurdy...I know will correct me if I am wrong). I might be reading into all this too much, so I could be off base.

 

Since he is carrying the cinnamon gene any of the off-spring that are cinnamon would be females? 50% visual cinnamons and 50% split

 

Since she is carrying the opaline gene any male budgies would be split for the opaline gene, 50% chance.

 

The diluted gene confused me, I read it is recessive so what I figure on my paper is that 50% would be diluted recessive pied (if that is possible) and then 50% recessive pieds.

 

(This was my original answer..

Still learning going to through it out...(Nerwen, Rainbow, Hurdy...I know will correct me if I am wrong).

 

100 % normals unless she is split for the pied recessive gene

 

Since he is carrying the cinnamon gene any of the off-spring that are cinnamon would be females?

 

Since she is carrying the opaline gene any male budgies would be split for the opaline gene.)

Edited March 1, 200619 yr by lovey

Good Lovey.. and also all babies will be split for dilute unless Tazzy is split for it. If Tazzy is truely violet you may get some violets as well - how many would depend on whether he is single factor or double factor and if he has 1 dark factor (is cobalt).

Hurdy I changed my answer (Laughing out loud)...is it wrong now?

So mating two recessive birds means you will get normals. Will they most likely be normal green? In order to get more dilutes I need to mate with another dilute unless the male is split for dilute? And in order to get more pieds I need to mate with pieds unless the dilute it split for pied? This is so confusing.

So mating two recessive birds means you will get normals. Will they most likely be normal green? In order to get more dilutes I need to mate with another dilute unless the male is split for dilute? And in order to get more pieds I need to mate with pieds unless the dilute it split for pied? This is so confusing.

 

Mating 2 recessive birds, doesn't mean you will get normals, it depends on what mutation they are.

Yes to the dilute

Yes to the pied

Since he is carrying the cinnamon gene any of the off-spring that are cinnamon would be females? 50% visual cinnamons and 50% split

 

You're new answer isn't technically wrong Lovey.. because there is a 50, 50 chance that a baby will be male or female.. but I find it simpler to say that all females will be cinnamon and all males will be split for cinnamon, like in your first answer. But yeah.. a potential 50% visual cinnamons would be accurate, they'd just all be female.

 

Since she is carrying the opaline gene any male budgies would be split for the opaline gene, 50% chance.

There's a 50% chance that they will be male - any male will be split for opaline. There's a 50% chance that they will be female and any females will be non-opaline.

 

Dilute and Recessive pied are totally different mutations.. but they are both recessive mutations meaning that you need to get a gene from both parents for either one to show in the chicks.. Its not enough to get dilute from one parent and recessive pied from another. You'd need to get dilute from both or recessive pied from both for it to show. However since one parent is Dilute and one is Recessive pied, that means that all the babies will be split for dilute and recessive pied. You wouldn't know it by looking at them, but those traits would be carried in their genes and could "come out" in future generations.

 

So mating two recessive birds means you will get normals. Will they most likely be normal green? No, they'll all be blue. You can't get green from 2 blue birds. Blue is also a recessive trait (like recessive pied or dilute). -Also yours' wouldn't all be normals because the females will be cinnamon. Normal refers to a green or blue budgie with the "standard" black wings.

in order to get more dilutes I need to mate with another dilute unless the male is split for dilute? Yes - another dilute would give 100% dilute offspring, any male split for dilute would give a possible 50% visual dilutes

And in order to get more pieds I need to mate with pieds unless the dilute it split for pied? This is so confusing. Yes.. it works the same as the dilutes. That's only true of recessive pieds though.. like Tazzy - dominant pieds are another story.

 

But it is possible that your dilute is split for recessive pied (or vice versa) because there's no way of knowing what her parents, grandparents, etc looked like. You can't tell what a birds split for by looking at it , That would simplify things a lot.

Edited March 1, 200619 yr by HurdyBirdy

" Dilute and Recessive pied are totally different mutations.. but they are both recessive mutations meaning that you need to get a gene from both parents for either one to show in the chicks.. Its not enough to get dilute from one parent and recessive pied from another. You'd need to get dilute from both or recessive pied from both for it to show. However since one parent is Dilute and one is Recessive pied, that means that all the babies will be split for dilute and recessive pied. You wouldn't know it by looking at them, but those traits would be carried in their genes and could "come out" in future generations. "

 

Got it, thank you...this statement above is what helped me out perfectly!!!

I make things harder then they seem

 

Well at least you can tell if some will be male or female depending on their mutation, that is really a neat thing with these sex linked mutations.

And in order to get more pieds I need to mate with pieds unless the dilute it split for pied? This is so confusing. Yes.. it works the same as the dilutes. That's only true of recessive pieds though.. like Tazzy - dominant pieds are another story.

 

 

And what is the difference again between a recessived pied and a dominant pied?

Recessive Pied: No two pieds are exactly alike and the recessive pied is one of my favorite mutations. Unlike normal budgies, recessive pieds have two colors on the body. Usually this is a mix of some shade of blue with white or a shade of green with yellow. These colors are very "splotchy" in appearance and usually follow no set pattern. Their wing markings are also very inconsistent. Unlike normal budgies, recessive pieds will never develop an iris ring. (The iris ring is the light colored ring around the pupil of the eye which usually develops around 12 months of age.) Another interesting fact about recessive pieds is that the males do not get a blue cere when they mature. Instead, their cere will become pink.

 

 

 

 

Dominant Pied: Dominant pied budgies often have a very characteristic "spot" on the back of the head right in the middle of their markings. Like the recessive pieds, their bodies sport two colors instead of one. Sometimes they will have a band of color across the stomach separating another color. (See the pictures below if you're confused.) Dominant pied budgies do develop iris rings and the males do get bright blue ceres just like normal budgies.

 

Above taken from www.budgietalk.com, click on mutations and scroll down

 

The irises of a dominant pied budgie turn light with maturity. This is a key factor in telling the difference between a dominant pied and a recessive pied: Recessive pieds' eyes stay a dark plum color throughout their life. Taken from: http://www.geocities.com/budgie-place/p_colors.html

Recessive pieds don't get an iris ring and adult males cere stay pink. Dominant pieds get an iris ring and the males get a bright blue cere.

 

In most cases the markings are different. The recessives pieds have blue or green closer to their belly and legs the characterictic spots on their wings.

 

With dominant pieds, you can get dom. pied babies if only one of the parents is dom. pied.

your doing great lovey

 

Just to be clear with two recessive pied pair you can NOT get any normal patterned wings birds. This is becuase all babies get one pied gene from the parents and is recessive pied itself.

thanks Nerwen, I am glad I have you, Hurdy and Rainbow to keep me on my toes.

Considering that we don't know what they maybe split to ......

 

Cocks - Cobalt, Split Cinnamon, Split Opaline, Split Recessive Pied, Split Dilute

Hens - Cobalt, Cinnamon, Split Recessive Pied, Split Dilute

 

Because as you say the Opaline and Cinnamon genes are sex linked... But wait for the splits and throw backs to show up.

Edited March 2, 200619 yr by daz

And in order to get more pieds I need to mate with pieds unless the dilute it split for pied? This is so confusing. Yes.. it works the same as the dilutes. That's only true of recessive pieds though.. like Tazzy - dominant pieds are another story.

 

 

And what is the difference again between a recessived pied and a dominant pied?

 

Genetically, the dominant pied bird carries one pied gene and one normal gene. The pied gene shows up over the normal one. A recessive pied bird carries two pied genes. If you breed two recessive pieds together, you will get 100% recessive pieds, as they have no other gene to give. If you breed two dominant pieds together, you will get a percentage of pieds and a percentage of normals, since the dominant pied carries a gene for normal coloring.

Thanks everyone for the help! I guess what I really don't want is a clutch of normal green babies. But with that pairing I wouldn't get any greens because they are both blue?

 

So what if I replace my pied with my yellowface type II (see my signature)? What would I get then?

Are you saying Wylie?

 

You would get some yellow faces, but you don't know what Wylie is split for, so you would get 50% normals and 50% of what ever he could be split for?

 

Am I correct on this ladies?

is Tazzy opaline as well?

no Tazzy is not opaline, according to the way the bars are seen on her head.

Wylie and Tweety would be yellowface sky blues (birds that look like Wylie) and normal sky blues (birds that look like Wylie without the yellow face). All the babies would be split for dilute.

 

I guess what I really don't want is a clutch of normal green babies. But with that pairing I wouldn't get any greens because they are both blue?

 

All four of your birds are blue.. so no matter who was paired with who (of the 4) you wouldn't get any greens.

I guess what I really don't want is a clutch of normal green babies. But with that pairing I wouldn't get any greens because they are both blue?

 

All four of your birds are blue.. so no matter who was paired with who (of the 4) you wouldn't get any greens.

 

 

And Sylvester is considered a blue because he is a yellow-face turning his green to blue (like Wylie)???He certainly is visually more green to me, but I see bits of blue throughout?

 

This is really fascinating stuff? How did you guys learn all this?

Edited March 2, 200619 yr by Shawna

Well I am still learning (Laughing out loud), but I just go to all the posts and try to work it out, Nerwen, Hurdy and Rainbow have been patient with me. I flopped big time with candcelast one though today. I also found a mutation site with information on genetics to refer back and forth too so I can see what is dominant, recessive etc...

Lovey, you know alot more than you're giving yourself credit for. I had a tough time with Bea's one last night. For a change, she even knew what the parents of 3 of the 4 birds were and it played a role a few times.

 

I refer back here a bit.. it pretty much tells you what to expect from the "common" ones.

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/charts/index.html

 

I suppose that I just find the genetics stuff interesting.. even if I never breed birds myself.

thanks Hurdy, I appreciate it - I saw the Bea post and said OMG, I will hold off on that. I do better when I see pictures of the parents.

 

Genetic is very interesting, and if it is interesting you will learn it. I took basic human genetics, and have always found this stuff interesting, so when I say a chance to learn I took it .