Hi, I have mated a normal dark green cock which I bred. his father was Normal dark green with an opaline gene. his mother is a lutino. the hen i mated him to is a light green harlequin. I have read in so many budgie books and internet sites that have said that harlequins are recessive. I have 1 halreguin chick in the nest. When reading the books I thought that all will be normal looking but 1 is not. I know that the cock does not carry a harlequin gene as I have bred him to this hen and bred his parents 4 other times. before his father died. In the other nest 90% of the chicks are pied with 1 spangle so far. I have a violet sky well atleast i think it is, a cobalt and many sky blues. the hen in that is a finish pied. with brownwings. I thought they were cinnamon but they are brown as one of the babies have come out with really beautiful brown wing markings. but in that I also got a whitewing pied baby with no markings on the wings. I have posted some picturs up in the budgie for sale topic under

Baby Budgies

ready for new home in mid to late november

I would still think that your male is split for harlequin(recessive pied) if the baby is definately recessive pied and the male in question is definately its father. Probably only one of his parents carried the recessive pied gene and passed it on to him - then none of their babies would have been recessive pied, but half could be split for recessive pied.

 

A Recessive Pied mated to a Recessive Pied Split would produce 50% Recessive Pied and 50% Normal split for Recessive Pied. That doesn't necessarily mean that 2 of every 4 chicks will be Recessive Pied (It's more of a guideline) Even though this is the first harlequin from the pair, it would still be possible.

Thanks for your point.

 

The father of the father was a normal green/blue split for sex link opaline. mother is lutino carrying blue gene to get blue babies. In the first nest I got three males in oreder Blue normal, Green normal and the bird in question green normal. the 2nd nest straight after was opaline hen green, opaline cock blue and opaline green hen. the 3rd the next year after were normal green hen, opaline blue cock, opaline green hen and normal blue hen. You see opaline cock is not meant to come out in male if the cock carries the sex linkage to opaline all hen should get it. a friend of mine owns the male opaline and he has a blue cere. So again that should have not happened. and I'm usually right with the gender of the birds.

 

But I'm pretty sure that he doesn't carry the gene. I'll have to work out the genetics to them (I'm pretty good at genetices got 2 in my year 11-12 biology class and all round 5th place. 1st place in genetics. so I have an idea on how to work it out.)

 

But none of the parents were harlequin to start off with.

okay this is not making a lot of sence to me, can we get pics of the the birds?

 

if not can you list in more clearly what the farther looks like, what the mother looks like and what their parents looks like if known.

Hope this helps.

 

I have posted pictures in another topic. below is the tilte of the topis.

Baby Budgies, ready for new home in mid to late november

 

it will be the first picture the one with the three green coloured birds. the one with the most yellow is the exact replicer of the mother the green babies the same as the father and the grand father. the grandmother is lutino. there the fathers parents. the green cock. If it still don't help I'll try find picturs that more describes the parents. of the father.

yah it's helping already I was thinking the lutino was the mother of this set not the mother of the farther.

 

yep the male can stil be slipt, his farther or mother could have been slpit and in the making of him one given the recessive gene the other the normal, and so the normal would show over the other. Seems like this time around he gave the gene as well as the mother creating the little baby.

 

 

can you tell me more about why do don't think you should have gotten a opaline male?

Edited October 28, 200519 yr by Nerwen

From being sexed linked and the male carrying two x chromezones one of which carried the opaline gene would have passed it to his daughters creating opaline hens. and the males will ba carriers.

 

My only theory was that when mummy passed on her x chromosone carrying the lutino gene to her sone, the ones which were opaline the lutino gene mutated thus creating an opaline male.

 

I think.

Hey Nerwen I think I've worked it out.

 

Here goes.

 

Father is XXo Normal/Opaline Mother is XlY Lutino

 

Reminder / = Split

 

One parent carries the gene for harlequin.

 

N = Normal h = Harlequin

 

Harlequin is recessive.

 

Now lets say the father carried the gene for harlequin. He will be XXoNh so the lutino hen will be XlYNN.

 

Now we have gotten this far we will continue to the more complicated.

 

If your reading get some paper and a pen, draw up a grid, 4 squares across by 2 squares down. there should now be 8 squares in the grid. On the side put in the top row (beside the square not in it) put XlN below that put YN. that is the hen. Now for the cock his genes will go across and above the squares. starting above the first square put XN followed by Xh, XoN and Xoh.

 

Now start in square 1. Put mum and dad together to make baby. there should be 4 genes in this square. it should look like this XXlNN You have just made a normal/lutino cock.

 

Now do the same with all the other squares. XXlNh and so on until all squares have 4 genes inside them.

 

I kept 2 male birds from the nest. both normal Green. We know all cocks produced will carry lutino In the grid that you made up you will find XlXoNN and XlXoNh. This is probebly where a mutation has occured to make the opaline cock. But we'll get back to the green birds.

 

Rouge the father Normal green/Lutino cock. Lets say he is XXlNh. Split for harlequin. He is mated to a harlequin hen XYhh.

 

Again with the squares on a diferent peice of paper 4 across 2 down Xh, Yh on the side and XN, Xh, XlN, Xlh on the top.

 

So there you have it, the possible outcome of the babies and it has now answered my question why I have a harlequin in the nest. Thanks HurdyBirdy and Nerwen. you helped me look at the possibility of having a harlequin gene in the babies grandparents.

 

Now what I just said, does it make any sence?

yes it did glad you now understand how it could have happened.

 

Thinking of the opaline I wonder if the lutino hen was in fact a opaline as well (although both on the X chromosome) but the ino gene overrode it. Becuase the opaline changes feather colour to the body colour but a luntino is all yllow to start with. Might be wrong but that is the only way I can see you getting a opaline male offspring.

So it made sence to you.

 

I done genetics at school and when I started breeding budgies all I done was swithch the X and Y chromosones around and worked from scrath.

 

I was one of the highest marking students in my biolody class that's why breeding comes so easy to my.

 

I'm thinking of more of a chalenge and might breed Bourke parrots soon. I know there about the same size as Budgies. Budgies are around 17 - 20 cm where Bourke parrots are 18 - 22 cm heigh.

 

So they should breed in a budgie nest box. I'll just see what happens.

 

I'm saving up for a patio Avery for my budgies so mum and dad can have there larger avery back.

yeah But I loved genetics in school as well It's the only time I listened in class

I loved genetics at school too So why can't I understand it now :hap:

Could it be the many decades since I did the subject

Ah punnett squares.

 

Loved them in biology class, only used pea plants instead of budgies. Good idea, luvbudgies, to write it all out. It gives me an idea.