Just wondering what the possible results of inbreeding are.

I think it's all about colour, why some breeders inbreed. But I would'nt do it, Yes there are disasters, like any form of inbreeding. I don't have much knowledge but I'm sure the risk of deformities are greatly increased.

Inbreeding can lead to deformities and more weak budgies with health issues.

 

Sure, your baby budgies might look okay. They probably won't hatch with two heads or six wings but there could be other (internal) complications you can't even see.

 

Most of all, if you don't know the background of your birds you could be passing on health issues. Just because they look healthy doesn't mean that five years from now they won't develop a problem. That problem will be carried on by their offspring.

And mutations like feather dusters result from inbreeding.

I think lil Merly's inbred

What makes you think that Tegz? :mellow:

And mutations like feather dusters result from inbreeding.

 

evidence please ??

That's just what i had read somewhere? That they were more common in inbreeding and poor breeding...is this wrong?

there is no known reason why these birds appear one reason talked about are a moth that gets into the food

Just wondering what the possible results of inbreeding are. :dbb1:

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In my opinion it is ethically wrong to inbreed budgies. Its wrong to make a bird mate with his/her brother/sister/mother/father etc. It is irrelavent what the results may be from inbreeding and its sick to even be thinking about risking inbreeding your birds.

Thats my two pence worth on this topic.

there is no known reason why these birds appear one reason talked about are a moth that gets into the food

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The moth thing seems waaay more far fetched than inbreeding. It's known to happen with english budgies which are severely inbred to begin with. Messing with animals to create new colors or sizes or basically to change them to our tastes period is just asking for things like feather duster budgies to happen. I'd bet anything it has to do with inbreeding and not a moth. Think of all the feather dusters you'd see in the wild if that were the case! (Not just among budgies but birds in general.)

What makes you think that Tegz? :mellow:

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She's smaller than the two other birds we know of from this breeder, shes obviously weaker since she's been so sick... and its still kinda hard to make out her sex. The vet muttered some comment about her being inbred because of something he noticed, but I can't remember what it was! Yet it makes sense....

you woudnt see them as they would not live as they cant fly its always amazes me to see people arguing for something when science cant prove it i already stated that i had a feather duster from a pair of pet birds when i first started these wernt related and i am 99.9% sure the breeder who i bought them of never had show birds but i would not rule out inbreeding but to make a statment that you would bet anything that it is seems a little excessive without evidence there is an article in budgerigar world last month that questions the feather type of the pair and this could be a reason there could be numerous reasons until it is proven we will never know as for the moth well i dont think i agree but these people breed these birds for years then all of a sudden they have numerous moths (its a certain type dont know the name but its only a small one) and a feather duster is born coincedence or not ? so i keep an open mind

I wasn't arguing, I was just stating that I am leaning towards inbreeding as the cause. I'm not saying I have to be right but that's what makes the most sense to me.

 

You have stated that you got feather duster budgies from pet birds but you also couldn't be positive that those pet birds didn't have some english/show budgie in them somewhere along the line. You'd have to know the background of alll the birds they were related to so it's difficult to use that as a fact. The articles I've read state that feather duster budgies only come from english budgies and seeing as english budgies have been heavily inbred it only makes sense.

 

And no, they wouldn't live in the wild but it seems that we'd find dead ones or that it would happen in other types of captive-bred parrots. As far as I know (and I might be wrong) feather duster babies haven't happened in any other type of parrot. And sadly, I don't think there's a parrot that has been inbred nearly as much as budgies. Cockatiels probably come in a close second but they still haven't been changed nearly as much as budgies.

Edited August 12, 200519 yr by eterri

eterri i dont want to argue either but it doesnt help when magazines ect state that inbreeding is the cause (i to think it probably is) untill it can be proven you have to take the moth in the same way.a lot is said about genetics and inbreeding here on this site and i will be honest i know little just what people say but look at this

 

http://www.whitepark.org.uk/chillingham.htm

 

apart from going smaller nothing has happened to these and they have been inbreeding for the last 700 years surly if inbreeding was to blame for everything these to would suffer

I was just speculating based on what I've read as far as the feather dusters are concerned. It's just my opinion that it's inbreeding but I might be wrong and I'll be interested if any new information is ever found out.

 

As far as the cattle, I don't know a thing about cows or those in particular. But I do know that budgies *have* suffered greatly from inbreeding. Even if those animals haven't, it's a fact that budgies have.

but surly its all here say till it is proven by science i know fertillity is blamed on inbreeding but is there scientific evidence to prove it before any body accusses me i do not advocate it surly these cattle should suffer the same as budgies if inbreeding causes so much problems if not worse 700 years of inbreeding in about 40 cattle

Like I said, I'm completely ignorant about cattle or genetics in different animals but it is a fact that inbreeding brings out problems and carries them on. Maybe there are problems in those cattle that just haven't been found yet, who knows?

 

However, it is a fact (a scientific one) that inbreeding animals (including budgies) causes problems. The problem is that it's not always as obvious as extra body parts or outward physical problems. Sometimes it's a congenital defect that doesn't show up until the animal is an adult. Often, people don't even investigate what their budgies die of.

 

One example of a result of inbreeding that is more obvious is the bald spot on the back of some lutino cockatiels's heads. Lutinos were inbred so we could have more of that color and not only do they have that weird spot but they are more prone to having health complications.

 

To put it really basically (so I don't type out a book), inbreeding means weaker birds. Nature's intent is for the strongest animals to survive so when nature "breeds" it's breeding for the healthiest, strongest budgies. When I read about budgie breeding it's a bit disturbing. I read about show standards which include colors and markings and stances and such. Obviously, an ill bird wouldn't do good in a show but you can't always know a bird is ill or has health issues by looking at it. Sometimes those things don't show up for quite some time and the fact that english budgies have a shorter lifespan is a testament to the fact that many breeders aren't breeding for longevity and health.

 

In breeding dogs it is quite different. While there are very strict standards of what each breed should look like, breeders also have to concentrate on health. For instance, a german shepherd breeder (a good one at least) will have the dog checked for hip displaysia as this is a common problem among the breed and the goal of the breeders is to breed this trait OUT of the animal.

 

I ended up rambling anyway. All I'm trying to say is that there IS scientific evidence that inbreeding leads to problems in animals.

but surly its all here say till it is proven by science i know fertillity is blamed on inbreeding but is there scientific evidence to prove it before any body accusses me i do not advocate it surly these cattle should suffer the same as budgies if inbreeding causes so much problems if not worse 700 years of inbreeding in about 40 cattle

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there is a huge difference between wild animals and domestic animals.

 

inbreeding in the wild does happen, for sure. BUT mother nature rules that only the strongest males and females SURVIVE in the wild to reproduce. a weak male or female will not be successful in breeding in the wild. because of the social heirarchy of wild animals and also because complications will mean a calf from weak parents will more than likely die in the wild.

 

with budgies, people have specially selected weak pairs and let them breed. in captivity weak offspring will survive due to the care and attention provided in their somewhat artificial environment.

 

in captivity nature cannot ensure that the strongest offspring survive. and therefore thecontinued inbreeding results in mutations like the feather duster which simply wouldnt be allowed to happen in the wild.

 

i agree with eterri on this one, the inbreeding of the domestic budgie seems the most likely cause of problems like feather duster. the moth theory is very far fetched.

i whole heartly agree that inbreeding will be bad for birds but my point im trying to get across is you cant say everything is down to inbreeding untill proven surely.the cattle were an example that they have inbred for 700 years and only got smaller mind you i have seen them and dont think i would like to have seen them

I don't think everything comes down to inbreeding, I just think it's very likely that feather duster budgies are a result of it and it's a fact that many other things are the result of inbreeding.

we will probably never prove that we are not alone in the universe. certainly not in my lifetime. but i believe that we are not alone because it is statistically more likely.

 

the effects of inbreeding are very hard to prove, there are lots of grey areas. but statistically it is very much more likely than the moth theory.

 

overall advice, do not inbreed. it is playing against what nature intended and really asking for trouble, not only for the breeder, but for the possible future of the species. the lifespan will only continue to shorten.

 

tegz - i wouldnt worry about merls, statistically probably a lot of peoples budgies here have been inbred at some point in their long family tree. that is why it is so so important to know the history of a breeding pair. we only want the strongest babies dont we

fair enough

The Question of Inbreeding:

 

If your definition of inbreeding is breeding birds which are related *at all*, then anyone who has bred budgies has inbred. All these mutations, blue, pied, albino, ALL of them originated from a mutation in some bird back in the past. So if you've bred two birds with the same mutation (blue for instance), or even hatched a bird that displays a recessive mutation, then by this definition you HAVE inbred. Not to mention that all of our budgies come from Australia and have been bred over and over again with eachother, so they're all related to a degree.

 

Obviously breeding closely related animals ups the chances that two bad recessive genes from the same recent ancestor will end up in a budgie (as probably happened with the featherduster). It also decreases quality of your stock (as with the English show budgies who for example have shorter life spans than regular budgies) and propogates genetic defects (as in the dog breeds). But as long as you keep the 'relatedness' of your breeding pairs to a low minimum you shouldn't really have a problem, and if you only inbreed every once in awhile, it really shouldn't be a problem with the overall quality of your stock.

 

Where you start to hear of these horrible genetic defects is usually when you've bred brother and sister, and then bred those offspring together, and then those together and so on and on. So in summary, it's not as bad as people think but still riskier than breeding unrelated birds. In any case, I myself wouldnt breed closely related birds at all unless I had discovered some new mutation (like the recent blackface) and was trying to propogate it. On inbreeding, if I had to I would probably cap inbreeding relatedness to around 5% (which would be the equivalent of breeding second cousins which are around 3% related). As a sidenote, for those who don't know, birds you obtained from the same petshop or breeder are a lot closer related than those you buy from different places.

 

My two cents~

Edited August 23, 200519 yr by Spankster.D

Hi everyone - I know I've not taken part in this conversation but can someone tell me what a feather duster budgie is plaease.