Now that I've properly introduced myself here is the question I joined up to ask.

 

What colour is this boy?

 

 

I stumbled on him while searching for a new rescue to adopt, and perhaps they're common elsewhere but I have never seen a budgie like him before. His cage mate is interesting too.

 

Thanks for your input.

He's a pretty bird, first thought spangle but his cheek patch's don't really show that, could be Olive opaline but someone with more knowledge will have to say. Did you buy him or just looking?

I don't see any spangle? I would say greywing with a grey factor (grey-green).

Olive opaline spangle.

I haven't adopted him yet or seen him in person. I'm looking for a single male and he appears to be a pair. I will likely go to the animal shelter to have a peek at him on the weekend though as I'm curious.

 

I was thinking Grey-Green, but that was as far as I got.

 

What is confusing me is that he seems to not have any black markings on him anyway, like that green colour has replaced the black throughout his whole body?

Will read up on your suggestions.

I wouldn't know his mutation, but he's very pretty.

okay, did some reading on the suggestions and here is what I’ve come up with. If you have another idea I’m happy to entertain it, but please tell me what you’re seeing that makes you think he’s what you’re saying he is.

 

Colour:

He is either grey-green or olive green. The photo does not clearly show the colour of the cheek patches. If they are violet when I go see him, we’ll have our answer that he is olive, if they are grey or blue then we can say he’s grey-green.

Either way safe to say he has two dark factors I think?

Now for the mutation:

Spangle: No. Eliminated based on cheek patches

Opaline: Possible. His body colour is very strong in his wings. (also what appear to be large areas of yellow on the primary flight feathers?) (or maybe not! see edit below)

 

But my question there is, what about the very strong dilution of the black markings? Would opaline allow for such a dark body colour and such a strongly diluted wing marking? Or there another diluting mutation mixed in. Can you have more than one diluting mutation in a single bird? This is where I’m getting lost. I can’t figure out why he seems to have no black or grey colouring where his striping or throat spots should be?

 

ETA: After further digging on here I'm starting to lean more towards the greywing? Because if he were opaline he would not have the yellow on his wings according to this pinned post in this section "they differ in wing markings. Where Normals have black and yellow markings on their wings in the Greens and black and white in the Blues, the Opalines have black, but instead of either yellow or white, they have a diluted body colour"

He clearly has yellow on his wings

Martine might be right. Greywing greygreen olive? Or greywing olive?

Edited November 7, 201311 yr by 21feet

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

He's definitely opaline, opaline just puts body colour into the wings and the amount of colour will vary from bird to bird and I also think he may be grey wing. In recent times they have figured out that green birds can also be yellow face (which is a bit hard to tell because they always have yellow faces), so he could be carrying yellow face which will explain the yellow in the wings. In saying all that if he was colony bred he could be a mix of everything. The fact that he has no throat spots could mean he has spangle in him because often opaline spangles don't have them.

Thank you for that explanation Nadene. I had considered yellowface, but wasn't sure so it is good to learn that. So he may in fact be all of the above then.

I still say Olive opaline spangle. A photo of the birds tail would be helpful, but in this photo you can see part of the wing, which is clear, spangles have clear flights and tails. Spangle with opaline produce a large amount of body colour through the wings , like this bird has.

Edited November 7, 201311 yr by rachelm

Hi and welcome to the forum

That is an interesting bird. Defiantly not a common combination in my aviary's.

 

First Id say this bird is an Olive or grey green Df Dark Opaline Dom pied mix. as you suggest pos greywing or even a mix.

 

Cant see any thing to indicate spangle, the yellow is the body base colour and is showing at the tops of feathers, rather than a darker line at the end of the feathers so not spangle.

 

As for YF 1 & 2 mutations? This is not Yellow face T1 or T2. Not to say the it isn't split.

A yellow based bird cannot be YF Visual as it is not displaying the mutation. The mutation being the change of yellow to white base or underlying colour.

 

The YF Mutation is one that affects the natural base colour (Yellow), as such The YF is a mutation displays a combination yellow and white base in specific manner.

 

The base colour of a YF1 bird will have a combination base colour. Yellow mask and tail and is confined to these areas the rest of the body is white base. YF2 work in much the same way except that after first molt at abt 3 months of age a very light yellow suffusion will appear on the body base colour. an example is a sky YF2 body will change to an aqua or sea foam type colour dependent on the depth of suffusion.

Also YF T1 &T2 both reduce the depth of yellow displayed and doesn't leave any yellow base colour in the wing.

 

In my opinion if this bird was YF T1 or T2 it would display as a cobalt YF T1 or dark Aqua body in YF T2.

 

The cock pictured is displaying olive or grey green which means that it must have a fully coloured yellow base body.

 

Nadene, can you point me towards the info that suggests YFT1 &T2 actually exists in a fully yellow based bird as it goes against all that i understand abt this mutation and cannot find anything that will confirm or refute the possibility.

 

The only ways of being certain of what this bird carries is to have DNA testing done or a series of test mating's to see what is produced in the offspring.

 

Ill take a stab at what I believe he would produce, not including the genetics of splits or hen visual or splits

50% D green/greywing opaline

50% green (Aus)pied(sf)/greywing opaline

Really just a guess

 

Paulie

Sorry Paulie I can't find were I read it and I know they were debating it on FB, all I can find is where it says they can be split for Australian YF. I'll keep looking. I must be going mad

 

I'd love to see a picture of this birds flights and tale

If I have the time this sunday I will make a trip down to the shelter to see what I can see. But unless I adopt him I will only have access to him from behind glass as the budgies are in a glass windowed room inside separate cages that may be near the front where I can see him, or at the back. So more photos may be difficult. I will bring my camera and take them if the shelter allows. If I adopt him, there will for sure be more pictures.

I'm enjoying the guesses! Thanks for yours Paulie, very in depth explanation.

21feet

if i saw that bird bird i would grab it. it is an interesting bird.

okay, I have a new picture. I was only able to use my cell phone camera so it isn't great, but the colours are fairly true.

Having seen him in person I believe he is an olive green and not a grey green.

Here is what I was able to get. His flights are pale yellow, as is his tail. No black or any other colour on his tail.

 

 

As for getting him. I am very tempted however he is only for adoption with the female who is also very pretty, but I do not really have room for two more, only one. I may have to pass on him, as interesting as he is. If he were a single male I would have taken him with me on the spot.

 

Edited November 10, 201311 yr by 21feet

Your photo confirms him as spangle and as you said olive and opaline. Shame you don't have room for both because they do make a pretty pair.

Edited November 11, 201311 yr by rachelm

Sorry Paulie I can't find were I read it and I know they were debating it on FB, all I can find is where it says they can be split for Australian YF. I'll keep looking. I must be going mad

 

 

 

 

a bird cant be split for aust yf as its a dominant gene....its either an ayf or it isnt ..cant be carried in a hidden form or split for

Edited November 11, 201311 yr by **KAZ**

okay now I'm looking at larger flight cages to make room lol. I really do like the pair. They're not like anything I've ever had before or seen commonly around here. We'll see, I have to also have the housemates' go on a bigger cage.

Kaz this is what I read,

 

Any bird can have any two of these genes simultaneously. The implications for AYF breeding are as follows:-

2 green genes = Green

2 blue genes = Blue

1 green gene 1 AYF gene = Green / AYF

2 AYF genes = AYF (double factor)

1 AYF gene 1 Blue gene = AYF (single factor)

1 AYF gene 1 EYF1 gene = AYFEYF1 (a combination bird)

1AYF gene 1 EYF2 gene = AYFEYF2 (a combination bird)

 

You will notice that a green bird cannot be split for both blue and AYF at the same time as that requires three different alleles and a bird can only have a maximum of two alleles. You will also notice the AYFEYF1 bird which is a combination of both AYF and EYF1(with the AYF features being slightly more dominant). I suspect that many of the birds on the exhibition bench today in Australia are this combination and this represents a significant issue of identification by both judges and breeders.

Hi 21 feet, Is there any way you can find out if they are related? With similar colouring they could be siblings, if they were I don't think breeding them together would be the best plan. Both lovely birds either way.

When you purchase/adopt from the humane society here you sign a contract agreeing not to breed the birds. I'm not a breeder, just a fancier, and all my birds are rescues of unknown origins. I have avoided accidental breedings for the last 12 years simply by not having nesting places in their environments, and I know what to do should an egg ever be laid.

Thanks for your concern though! It's very valid.

The humane society has a habit of pairing the birds male/female for adoption, possibly because they believe it will be more likely they will get along? They may not know that same sex pairs can do very well in the budgie world and would perhaps avoid accidental breeding of adopted birds more often.

Anyway, should I get my larger enclosure and this pair, they'd be kept baby-free like all my others