Hello everybody, please, help me with some interesting molting

 

 

After the first molting the hen looked like this:

 

 

 

 

 

After the next molting the hen looks like this (she's 1 year 2 months old now):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you tell me, why? Is this some kind of flecking? Why it appreared only after the second molt?

Your bird reminds me of something RIP wrote about the possiblity of one of her birds eating a lot of sunflower seeds while it was molting. Here is the quote, and I found it on this thread: http://forums.budgie...showtopic=28595

 

 

Posted 09 April 2010 - 10:24 AM

 

Im with Dave and Dean on this. To many people are too quick to label a bird a new mutation. Generally they have a little to no understanding of genetics of colour.

 

I already mentioned this on another thread but I will say it again here.

 

I bred a hen back in the 80's with a black head and neck. She was hatched a completley looking normal Opaline Light Green. On her first moult she produced an abundance of black feather. Back then I gave my birds more sunflower seed than I do now and she may well have been one of those birds that likes one seed far too much and gorged herself on it. As she did she was producing new feathers which at this time. The oils in the sunflower can enhance colour to a certain degree. Opalines are a melanin distribution gene and over time what made them attractive has been lost in favour of the show bench. The result is the extra melanin that is now produced and in some individuals to such an extent that some birds appear to have spots on their heads. If enough spots join up (feathers overlap each other) it would appear as a solid area of black.

 

The one thing I have always noticed about these birds pospping up is 1. they are Opalines and 2. they are always hens. I have yet to see a cock bird present with this phenomenon. Could there be some hormonal influence going on here also?

Finnie, thank you very much for the answer, quote and link, it's very interesting. But no, sunflower seeds are not the case here..

Hi It's hard to see on the photo's But are those birds Tuffties, poor relations of the crested birds? Yours B.J.

yep, they look like it B.J. I'm not sure what is causing the birds to have such dark markings though. I wouldn't call it flecking.

Yes, they are Tufted Crest.

 

But why she started to have these black markings after the second molt?

Has her diet changed in anyway?

No changes. And no sunflower seeds at all.

No ideas at all?

LOL we had ideas but they were wrong. I wouldn't be concerned about it too much, although looking at the photos it's beak looks fairly long... Could you take a close up of the eye, cere and beak area? Is it just this bird that has gotten the darker markings or does the YF one have them too?

Edited March 25, 201213 yr by JimmyBanks

The beak is okay :yes:

 

Could you take a close up of the eye, cere and beak area?

Well, I'll try, but what special do you expect to see there?

 

Is it just this bird that has gotten the darker markings or does the YF one have them too?

Only this bird.

I dunno what'll see in the close up... Just trying to get a better look and sometimes you see something when it's a closer shot that's done on macro setting... If you can get a picture that might help otherwise I'm all out of ideas...

how many moults has this bird had?

 

wondering if some feathers haven't developed their full adult colouring yet? more close up shots could help too. Do you own the parents? can we see the YF as well just to see what the sibling looks like today

Another bird is not a brother. There is no information about parents.

 

More pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have seen birds like this before but they were straight from the nest and not after their 1st moult. The reason for the ones I saw at a breeders was because of lack of nutrition , the parents would feed them probably and the result was birds with almost black heads and the were scrawny too.

I ran across this site a few days ago. Scroll down about half way. Maybe light and hormones are at work in your birds.

 

http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm03.htm

Hi everybody

 

Recent pics:

 

 

 

 

Can it be a Blackfaced mutation??

Another bird is not a brother. There is no information about parents.

 

 

How many birds do you have with these markings? If more than one are they any way connected to each other. e.g. Same parent /clutch etc.

robyn, it's not mine, it's of one of my buddies. She bought it by occasion, there is no infomation about its pedigree. As well there are not brothers/sisters of this bird.

She tried to breed il last year, but the cock was an unexperienced one and the eggs were infertile. Certainly, she'll try to breed this hen more.

 

But still, looking at this hen, I have the idea that it's of Blackfaced mutation. Maybe, it's this rare case that the mutation occured exactly in this bird. To my mind, it's worth trying to check that. I want to offer to this buddy to breed this hen with 2 different cocks and then to mate the children from different nests. It's possible also to try to breed her with her son, but it's a closer inbreeding. Generally, I'm against such inbreeding, but this case looks so special.

 

What do you think? Have you ever seen such birds? Is it worth trying to use the close inbreeding in this case?

Hi Tania, I'm a dead loss when it comes to genetics. I have never seen one with such dark markings. I did have 2 fairly dark marked opalines but nothing like this. Somone into genetics may be able to advise on breeding her, in case it is a rare mutation and how to bring it out in chicks.

 

Keep us informed on the results if any. You never know what will pop up.

robyn, thank you very much for the answer

 

Maybe, Neville or RIP one day will see this thread and say their opinion.

 

I wrote to Mr. Inte Onsman (MUTAVI), he said that it might be a Blackface.

 

Certainly, I will tell the news here, but they will not come soon. Hopefully, a friend of mine will succeed witn breeding this hen.

There is a book by Dr. Terry Martin called A Guide to Colour Mutations and Genetics in Parrots. It has a chapter on Establishing New Mutations.

 

In that chapter, he talks about how new mutations are sometimes lost because the breeder's first instinct is to inbreed, in order to get more birds with the new trait. He says that is a mistake, and leads to weakness and infertility in the new lines.

 

He says that the first pairing should be an outcross (mated to an unrelated bird) in order to produce birds that are split to the "new" mutation. Then those birds can be bred from in order to get more visuals, and to produce some breeding stock that isn't quite so closely related. It also mentions breeding the "new mutation bird" to two different mates, and then using the half siblings from those pairings to each other. The book lists out step by step how to go about it.

 

Since your friend doesn't have any birds related to this one, then they will, of course, have to go the route of outcrossing, at least at first.

 

You also want to establish what the mode of inheritance is. If it is a dominant trait, that just showed up randomly in this bird, then some of its offspring should appear with it. If not, then it is probably a recessive trait, and then you can assume all of the offspring are split to it. Unless it is a sex-linked trait, in which case all of her sons will be split to it, but none of her daughters. In that case, some of the sons daughters will show the trait.

 

If you can't find this book, I'm sure there are other places on genetics that have written about this. Dog breeders and livestock breeders come to mind.

 

It is a project for someone who has a lot of room to breed all these birds and keep all of their offspring. I wish her good luck with it.

Edited January 30, 201312 yr by Finnie

Finnie, thank you very much for your advice

She will try to do her best. We will keep you informed