Hello everyone!

 

Quick background: I am new to the forum and also a recent budgie owner (got my little guy "Buddy" about 5 weeks ago.) I only have one since I would like to try to hand tame / train him. I did a ton of reading which stated it's easier to tame 1 bird at a time, plus I work from home all day so he's never lonely as he sits next to me in my office for hours. I got him the biggest flight cage appropriate for his size (31"L x 20"D x 40"H with a little less than1/2 inch bar spacing.) He's got plenty of varying sized natural branch, regular wood, and rope perches as well as toys to work with. I feed him a mixture Harrison's pellets, AviCakes, and NutriBerries with the occasional Harrison's Bird Bread muffin - all the foods our avian vet reccommend, plus a millet spray once a week as a treat. I've been trying to get him to eat fresh fruits and veggies, but he doesn't seem interested yet. He's about 6 months old from what we can tell and his DNA was tested to confirm he's definitely a boy. I also have a full spectrum light on for him during the day.

 

Now, here's my concern... I noticed my little guy is starting to moult a little - probably due to the change in diet from the standard seed mix the store had him on and the new diet I have put him on as described above. He scratches himself more and his feet became a little drier looking with the little pads at the tips of the feet looking a little flakey. He does preen them regularly and the flakes are not always so bad looking, but I was very concerned about him possibly having scaly mites on either his feet and/or cere. The cere looks okay, but he gets small flakes which he then scratches off when preening. I wasn't sure if this is normal for a male to get the random dry flake on his cere or not, as I've heard females get it all the time between the breeding cycles. I've attached some pictures of the cere and his feet (hope they are big enough... only the thumbnails would paste correctly.) The photos can also be seen here: http://pets.webshots...dxrh?vhost=pets

 

To be safe, after much reading on the mite topic, I purchased some Ivermectin dops 0.1% Spot On (made by Pharmaq) which arrived last night. (Link to Mite drops: http://www.animalmed...ml-pr-5786.html)

 

My small dilemah is this:

 

1.) I don't know whether my budgie actually has scaly mites or not, he was just at the vet 2 or 3 weeks ago for an initial check up and they ran all kinds of blood and poop tests and said he's totally clean. She trimmed his nails for me and never mentioned a problem with the feet or that he may have mites (although maybe the symptoms weren't totally there yet?)

 

2.) In order for me to put the medicine on my bird, it will require me to put a towel on him to catch since he's still somewhat wild. We've been making good progress with trust, Buddy will call to me when I leave the room, we play the "blinky game" and he will shut his eyes for nearly 30 seconds while I'm sitting right next to his cage with the door open. He seems to "flirt" with me and looks to see if I'm watching him, etc. It's all very cute, but I am still hoping to get him hand tame so he'll perch on my finger eventually. I'm afraid if I catch him to apply the medicine, he may never trust me again. If he is really sick I would obviously want to cure him regardless of the break in trust, but that is why I'm posting here before doing anything else. The instructions on this medicine call for 1 drop a week for 3 weeks total. This isn't the same Ivermectin solution used for cows and sheep, it's specifically designed for caged birds in the right dosage (0.1%) so there is no need to dilute.

 

So, does anyone think my little Buddy has scaly mites on either the feet or the cere? I've read some other forums where people will treat their birds once or twice a year just to be safe (even if they don't have mites.) I would be okay with doing that once the bird is a little more tame and finger perching so I don't have to traumatize him with the towel when applying the medicine. I wasn't sure how long it takes for the mites to get worse, there are so many different articles out there which state between 6 - 12 months for symptoms to show and he's only approximately 6 months old now. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for the help!

Hi Kristen, welcome to the forum.

 

I looked at the big version of your photos at Webshots, and I really don't see anything like scaley face on him. (That doesn't mean he doesn't have it, just that it doesn't look like it from the photo. We can't really diagnose things very well from photos on the internet, but we might be able to, if he had a more obvious case of it.)

 

In light of the trust issue, I think you can safely skip the ivermectin for now, and only treat him later, if it becomes visibly noticeable. Even if he has it, and it gets more noticeable, it won't be too late to treat him then. You certainly sound like you're not about to let it get out of hand. But I just don't think he has it.

 

I see you are in NY, and you said you got him from a pet store. What kind of pet store was it? Were the other birds they had in good shape, did you look them over for signs of illness? Could you go back and look at them now, 5 weeks later, and check if they have any scaley face showing? (It might not be any of the same birds still there, but if they were spreading scaley face, their new birds might have gotten it, too.) Generally though, if it's a major chain pet store, they keep things pretty clean, and you probably wouldn't see any birds with scaley face. It's the small "family" owned pet stores that sometimes take deplorable care of their stock, and you might see all manner of problems with those.

 

I think it's strange that your ivermectin says to treat once a week for three weeks. Ivermectin is supposed to kill all the mites with one application. Mine is the cattle kind, which I got from Tractor Supply Co. It contains 5mg/mL (not sure what % that is), and I just use a small pipette and put on 2 or 3 drops. But then, I've never actually had scaley face mites in my birds. I just treated a hen once that had a weird beak issue, just in case, and it turned out not to be scaley face after all. And once I treated my whole flock because I was afraid one of them might have had feather mites. Other than that, I've never needed to use my Ivermectin.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, maybe the change in his diet has caused him to have dry skin? It sounds like he's not getting any seeds, except for his once a week millet treat. Does he seem to like his pellets and eat them well? Or does he go nuts over the millet as though he's starving? We've had a few good artilcles on here lately about pellet diets, and why budgies are natural seed eaters. It's just a thought on why he might be itching and flaking. I don't really know what would cause those symptoms. Maybe someone else will know.

Edited April 5, 201114 yr by Finnie

Finnie has given you some great info.

I am concerned that he really doesnt have access to seed daily. Its all about moderation in all things not complete replacement.

Maybe if you read this article http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=18890

it will help.

Yes a change in diet will cause moulting. Lacking certain vitamins and nutrients may well be a reason for the scaly feet.

I, like Finnie see no issues with scalyface.

I am sorry, I am not a believer in the pellet diet at all.

My birds get a quality seed blend, vegies like sweetcorn, bok choy, spinach, carrots, fruit like apples, lemons, oranges, grapefruit. We give softfoods made up daily. With a varied diet you dont have to resort to pellets.

Your budgie is real cute

Thank you both so much for the input, I really appreciate it. I should mention that the NutriBerries and AviCakes I add to the base of pellets every day both contain plenty of seeds in them. :-) I also add some other mixed seed a couple of days a week (which has a little dried fruit in it too) for a change so he always has variety. I am not a believer in the all pellet diet either which is why I offer a mixture between 3 or 4 different items (always including some form of seed in them.) He loves the occasional birdy bread and enjoys the foraging it provides too. If I could only get him to eat fruits and veggies, I think he'd be just fine. He's a pretty healthy eater, I watch him chow down a few times a day. I also saw him drink water earlier today so I know he's okay there. I'll keep trying the fruits and veggies (so far he's passed up broccoli, baby carrots, melon, apple, and grapes.) If you know of any standard budgie favorites that they can't pass up, I can always give them a shot. I don't think he realizes they are food. I'm also trying to grow some fresh millet for him in our sun room as I've heard they love it when it's green versus the dried version he's been enjoying as a treat.

 

I'm thankful he doesn't appear to have scaly mites, that is a relief. I guess they just get the odd dry flakes here and there? He doesn't seem to want to bathe, although I have tried to spray mist near him a little to see if likes it and if that will help with the dry skin. I've also put a shallow dish in the cage with water in it, but he won't go in. I read each budgie has its own preference for bathing so I leave it up to him. It could be a combination of the moulting, difference in diet, and dry winter air - just glad it probably isn't mites. (That's where my total lack of experience gets the better of me since I have no idea what to look for.) All the scaly mite pictures on the internet are when the birds are suffering greatly and it's painfully obvious that they need treatment. I will hold off on the Ivermectin for now since he may not have scaly mites as you mentioned and if he seems to start to show the symptoms, I'll at least have the medicine I need to cure it. :-D

 

As far as where I got him, it was at a pet shop, but not a large or national one. Our avian vet who has a good reputation has told me the store I got him from is actually very good with their birds. They are active in the community and tend to take in strays then find good homes for them or rehabilitate and keep them if needed. They have all kinds of large and small breeds of birds and every one I've seen there looks pretty healthy. There is even a walk through aviary where the very large parrots hang out and talk to customers all day, it looks like the rain forest in that room (really nice set up.) I went back the other day and they had one little budgie which did appear to be sick sitting in a hospital cage by itself, set far apart from the others. The rest of the birds at the store looked and acted healthy from what I could see.

 

Overall, I'm just hoping my budgie will continue to build trust with me and become a happy and healthy member of our family. If I notice any changes in his cere or feet that look worse, I'll try posting an update with better pictures. Thanks again for the advice! :-)

They seem to love sweetcorn....so a few kernels of that ( can be thawed frozen kernels ) and some finesliced dark greens like silver beet or bok choy...some grated carrot. Sprinkle a small amount of seed over the top and he may investigate. In trying to eat the seed he will get the odd bit of vegie and that leads to eating vegies.

Edited April 6, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

Kaz' veggie ideas are good. Also keep in mind that it will take them quite a while to get used the the strangeness of the new veggies, so keep trying the same kind over and over. If he rejects it the first time, don't give up. After he gets used to it being there and gets curious, he'll start to play with it, then eventually realize he can eat it.

 

That pet store sounds awesome. If only all of them were that way! So I think it's a safe bet to assume that those owners would be on top of any scaley face if it cropped up. If your budgie didn't bring any scaley face mites home with him, then until you get a second bird, you probably won't have to worry about it. If you ever do get Buddy a buddy (lol), just make sure to quarantine them for a month, so you can make sure the new one doesn't have anything.

You've been given some great advice... I'd just like to add, if you end up needing to treat him, get someone else to do it. Talk through with them them on how to catch him and use the drops, and then leave the room or hide where you budgie can't see you. Then after it's done, return with treats.

Thanks everyone, great advice! I'll try slicing up some of the veggies and the sweet corn you mentioned and add a little seed. I heard they like broccoli because of the flower buds, but if it's not seed, pellet, or bird bread he's been turning his beak up at it. ha ha ha I will keep trying though as I understand it's important for them to have the mixed diet.

 

Good idea on having somebody else apply the medicine too, Maesie... maybe my husband can try it. He was the one to catch Buddy the first time when I took him to the vet for a checkup. Maybe I will luck out and he won't get mites and if he ever does he'll be more tame by that time. I keep his cage clean and it's so large that he doesn't soil it all that quickly in the first place (that size cage can house a few budgies comfortably from what I've read.)

 

I am considering getting Buddy a friend in a year or so, after he's totally tame and used to living with us. I still have a 18"x18" cage that I originally got from the pet store and can use that to quarantine the new bird for at least a month to make sure there are no issues. I would also introduce them gradually on their own time. I like the idea of him having another friend besides me since they are flock oriented and although he sees me for 85% of his day, I would want him to have another budgie to play with while I'm away. :-)

 

Thanks again for all the help, really appreciate it!

Mine REALLY likes carrot and REALLY REALLY likes raw beetroot. Won;t eat broccoli, so far. Just keep trying, and try serving them in different ways. That is, chopped up really fine, or in thin rounds on a kabob. Sometimes when you think they will never eat it, suddenly weeks later they start showing interest.

 

 

Mine wont eat broccoli either

LOL, so this morning I placed some very finely chopped baby carrots in Buddy's food dish and sprinkled some seed on top. He's not quite sure what to make of it. He goes over, investigates, pecks around, then returns to his main perch. I'll leave it in there for an hour or two, then swap it out for his normal mix. Later I'll be picking up some sweet corn and the beet greens from the grocery store to give those a try. I won't give up since you all mentioned it takes them time to learn the veggies are edible. It is cute though as he's looking a little unsure about what's in his dish at the moment. ha ha ha ;-)

lol... Yeah, stick at it and just be prepared to waste a lot until he figures it out. Mine LOVE corn the most!

YAY! I mixed some sweet corn in with the seed and pellets today and Buddy ate at least a couple of kernels! Hopefully he will continue to recognize them as food. :-)

Excellent! Good progress.