this is a long shot I know - but I was reading on Slates earlier and saw this passage

 

it is difficult to recognize them in the green series, but to the experienced fancier a Slate Green could look like a Grey Green but with violet cheek patches rather than grey.

 

what caught my attention while reading it was that a Slate in a green series would have VIOLET Cheek patches, instead of Grey Cheek patches of a Grey Green and From the pics Mystery's Cheek patches Look violet

 

like I said its a long shot Since slate is still rare, specially Around our parts BUT thought I'd toss it out there since reading it made me think of this post

Thank you guys for the input.

 

I got kind of busy over the weekend, so It took me a while to get back with any pictures.

 

 

I agree about the grey factor being out. Nubbly, I was thinking the same thing, because what I can see on his cheek patches is violet, not grey. Also, the chicks all have violet cheek patches, but they are different shades.

 

KM, I think Nelly might be violet. Yeah, it's hard to tell. I think almost all of my birds look like their color is stronger around the neck. But here is a photo with her in the front.

 

 

 

I was pretty sure that both her dad and her mom might have been violet factored, so maybe she is too.

 

So when I threw out the grey green theory, I started thinking more about the violet. I have a bunch of photos of the chicks to put on, but my son is breathing down my neck for the computer, so I'll try to come back on here in a few minutes.

 

To be continued....

 

okay, so I'm experiencing technical difficulties with my computer. I had a problem with my network adapter, and it got resolved, but now Photobucket is frozen, and I can't close it, or open a new window, so I think my problem is with Internet Explorer. Pictures will have to wait until I can get this fixed.

okay, I got Photobucket to work again, but I'm going to be really sorry in the morning that I'm staying up so late!

 

 

Chicks 1 and 3 are like twins, they should be the same mutation, but one has a darker body color and cheek patches than the other. I wonder if the difference could be due to violet factor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chick two is the lightest of all of them, but I still think he looks like he is a dark green?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are the remaining three. Two are opaline, and one is not. (Maybe it should be a triplet to the twins above.) Of the two opalines, they both look kind of olive, and one has much darker wing markings than the other. I don't know if any of these differences could be attributed to violet factor. Maybe there are differences between none, one and two violet factors?

 

Chicks 4-6:

 

 

 

comparing the two opalines (4 & 5)

 

 

 

 

No matter how I look at the evidence, I just don't see any way that there can be light, dark, and olive in this nest. That would mean Mystery wasn't olive, and Nelly wasn't sky. I am so stumped. I'm sure they are all boys, there's only one that is iffy, and really, he's not all that iffy in person. There's one that looks like normal instead of greywing, but even that is iffy, and if people said No, he's still a greywing, I would believe them, lol. My plan is to keep two of them, and when they grow up, breed them to find out if they are in fact split to cinnamon. But gee, that sure is a long time to wait!

 

I guess I could let Mystery and Nelly go another round and hope for some girls. But after raising 6, I think Nelly might need a rest. Plus I'm guessing that Mystery is NOT split for blue, and I already have enough green chicks to sell, people seem to want blues.

The chicks change so much each day! Number 6 went from this last night:

 

 

 

 

To this tonight:

 

Which maybe doesn't show his belly that great, but there is a big difference in how much he's feathered up in one day.

 

 

I'm also thinking of the possibility that he could be a light green. There's also that opaline one up above (chick #2) that looks pretty light to me, also. So then I thought of yet another new theory, maybe Mystery is not Olive. Maybe he's really a dark green who has some factor that makes the green look olive. (But not grey factor, since we've ruled that one out.) Maybe violet or DF violet could darken the body color up that much? Could that be an explanation why his body color doesn't look washed out?

 

 

I was able to get some more shots of Mystery, but he doesn't turn towards the camera, and the lighting isn't the best in that breeding cabinet.

 

 

Photo with no flash:

 

 

No flash, but close to the lamp:

 

And using a flash, but with a white paper over it:

This last photo with the flash lightens him up more than he is in real life, though. The middle photo seems more accurate to me.

I would say he is Dark green here's a Normal Dark Green

 

Perhaps being being pied and either Grey wing or Cinnamon or possibly violet is Changing his color a bit and thats what is making it harder to tell what he really is

Edited April 12, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

I was able to get some belly shots of Mystery this morning after I fed them, and he was eating, so he didn't notice me sneak up with the camera.

 

 

 

 

Sorry they are blurry. No flash, but the light bulbs were shining right on him. The more I think about him being dark instead of olive, the more I think it's possible. Here are some shots of my dark green budgie, Patrick. They are different from each other, but that's probably because of Mystery's weirdness, lol

 

 

 

Hello again. It's time for me to bore you some more with my conjectures about these chicks. (Of course, nobody forced you to click on this topic, LOL! )

 

Actually, since I took a ton of photos of the chicks, I'm planning to just put the link to where they are all at on Photobucket, to make it easier, and of course, anyone who really doesn't care won't have to go there.

 

But I will put a couple directly on here with a few of my questions.

 

First a kind of recap.

 

We're not really sure what dark factor Mystery is. He looks olive, but some of the chicks look like they might have no dark factor, which would make him only a Dark green. BUT, some of the chicks also look olive, which is impossible. So my current theory is that he is a dark green with some kind of factor that really darkens it up to olive. The chicks who look olive would then have this same factor, and it's affecting them the same way as him.

 

 

Then there is the greywing question. The chicks have different "darknesses" to their grey wing markings. One even looks so dark, I think he's a normal. But it's not the same as regular normals, who have really intense black markings. So I'm wondering if whatever factor is affecting the body color could also be affecting the wing markings. AND, because of the intensity of the chick's body colors, I suspect that the greywings may actually be Full Body Color greywings. And there are two who have such lighter, more yellow wings, that I wonder if they could be (poorly marked) clearwings.

 

One expects greywings to have 50% diluted body color, more or less, so then I wonder, could that cause a dark green bird to look light green?

 

 

For my first two photos, I'm going to compare chick one, who has a more yellow wing to chick 6, who has a lot more grey on his wings. Both of them have the light body color.

 

Chick1 on left, chick 6 on right:

 

 

I guess my question about them is, would you call them the same mutation? And would you call them light green, or dark green that has been washed out by the greywing?

 

 

 

Next are the three that I think look Olive. In order, chick 3, chick 4, chick 4 again, and chick 5:

 

I couldn't get chick 4 to pose, so that's why there is a separate front shot and back shot of him.

 

 

My comments about these that I would like help with are:

 

Chick 3 is one of the ones that I think could be a clearwing. I am prepared to be shot down on that one.

 

Could Chick 5 be a normal, or just a very, very dark greywing?

 

Do you think these look like olives, or like dark greens with a little something extra? (Like violet factor?)

 

What about the expected washing out of the greywing? I just don't see it.

 

And here is chick number two, all by himself, because there isn't anyone to compare him to.

 

 

 

 

And if anybody wants to see all the photos (38 of them), so they can get a better idea, here is a link to my photobucket album: My link

 

I mean, if anybody is actually interested and wants to see more choices of angles and lighting, etc.

Edited April 17, 201114 yr by Finnie

okay my guess although im sure its accurate ( may not be as its pics not real life ) is you have cinnamon Opaline Grey wing dark green hen ...chick 4

 

 

im working on others just looking something up to give me a definante decishion on your little light green whom seems to be split rec pied also ... is that possible ?

I admit i stopped reading post

it just bored me :{

but i think i can stop you going mad so ..... ill get back to ya

 

 

 

 

okay back took this from the budgie coulr thing people use alot here and seems has your awnser in it

 

:}

Here, "C" represents the normal gene, "cg" represents the greywing gene, "cw" represents the clearwing gene, and "cd" represents the dilute gene. With these four alleles we have the following possible genotypes:

 

* CC, Ccg, Ccw, Ccd - Two normal genes or one normal gene and any of the recessive genes, resulting in a normal budgie.

* cgcg, cgcd - Two greywing genes or one greywing gene and a dilute gene, resulting in a greywing budgie.

* cgcw - One greywing gene and one clearwing gene, resulting in a full-body-color greywing budgie.

* cwcw, cwcd - Two clearwing genes or one clearwing gene and one dilute gene, resulting in a clearwing budgie.

* cdcd - Two dilute genes, resulting in a dilute budgie.

 

As you can see there are only five phenotype possibilities but many possible genetic combinations. It is key to remember that greywing and clearwing are co-dominant. The normal greywing has grey marking and 50% body color dilution. The normal clearwing has very light markings and no body color dilution. When the greywing and the clearwing gene are both present, we get the full-body-color greywing, which has the grey markings of the greywing mutation and the body color of the clearwing mutation. Other than the co-dominant relationship between greywing and clearwing, all other combinations work in a dominant-recessive relationship. The normal gene will prevail in the presence of any of the other recessive alleles. The greywing gene prevails when the dilute gene is present. The clearwing gene prevails when the dilute gene is present. Only when both genes are dilute does the dilute phenotype show up since dilute is recessive to all the other alleles. Below are Punnet square examples of some possible pairings. From these you can see that breeding the different dilution varieties can get pretty complicated.

 

A homozygous normal and a dilute

CCXcdcd

C C

cd Ccd Ccd

cd Ccd Ccd

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

100% Normal

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

100% Heterozygous: normal split for dilute (Ccd)

 

 

A homozygous greywing and a homozygous clearwing

cgcgXcwcw

cg cg

cw cgcw cgcw

cw cgcw cgcw

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

100% Full-body-color greywings

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

100% Heterozygous: greywing with clearwing (cgcw)

 

A greywing split for dilute and a clearwing split for dilute

cgcdXcwcd

cg cd

cw cgcw cwcd

cd cgcd cdcd

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

25% Full-body-color greywing

25% Greywing

25% Clearwing

25% Dilute

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

25% Heterozygous - greywing with clearwing (cgcw)

25% Heterozygous - greywing split for dilute (cgcd)

25% Heterozygous - clearwing split for dilute (cwcd)

25% Homozygous recessive (cdcd)

 

 

Two full-body-color greywings

cgcwXcgcw

cg cw

cg cgcg cgcw

cw cgcw cwcw

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

50% Full-body-color greywing

25% Greywing

25% Clearwing

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

50% Heterozygous - greywing with clearwing (cgcw)

25% Homozygous - greywing (cgcg)

25% Homozygous - clearwing (cwcw)

 

A dilute budgie and a normal budgie split for dilute

cdcdXCcd

cd cd

C Ccd Ccd

cd cdcd cdcd

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

50% Normal

50% Dilute

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

50% Heterozygous - normal split for dilute (Ccd)

50% Homozygous recessive (cdcd)

 

 

A normal budgie split for greywing and a normal budgie split for dilute

CcgxCcd

C cg

C CC Ccg

cd Ccd cgcd

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

75% Normal

25% Greywing

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

25% Homozygous dominant (CC)

25% Heterozygous - normal split for greywing (Ccg)

25% Heterozygous - normal split for dilute (Ccd)

25% Heterozygous - greywing split for dilute (cgcd)

Edited April 19, 201114 yr by GenericBlue

Thank You so much for responding, GB ! I wasn't sure if I'd see you much anymore.

 

 

okay my guess although im sure its accurate ( may not be as its pics not real life ) is you have cinnamon Opaline Grey wing dark green hen ...chick 4 Is it possible for a cinnamon chick to be born with black eyes, and the plum not be visible? Cuz all of the chicks had black eyes on hatching.

 

 

im working on others just looking something up to give me a definante decishion on your little light green whom seems to be split rec pied also ... is that possible ? Yes, they are all split recessive pied, the father is recessive pied.

I admit i stopped reading post

it just bored me :{ ROFL!! OH GB, I AM SO SORRY I BORED YOU!!!! ROFL some more!

but i think i can stop you going mad so ..... ill get back to ya I truly appreciate it. Thank you for the great information on greywing genetics. Having looked it over, I'm wondering, do you think my chicks fall under the different phenotypes possible? (But not dilute, I don't think any of them look like dilutes.)

 

 

 

 

Thank You so much for responding, GB ! I wasn't sure if I'd see you much anymore.

 

 

okay my guess although im sure its accurate ( may not be as its pics not real life ) is you have cinnamon Opaline Grey wing dark green hen ...chick 4 Is it possible for a cinnamon chick to be born with black eyes, and the plum not be visible? Cuz all of the chicks had black eyes on hatching.

 

 

im working on others just looking something up to give me a definante decishion on your little light green whom seems to be split rec pied also ... is that possible ? Yes, they are all split recessive pied, the father is recessive pied.

I admit i stopped reading post

it just bored me :{ ROFL!! OH GB, I AM SO SORRY I BORED YOU!!!! ROFL some more!

but i think i can stop you going mad so ..... ill get back to ya I truly appreciate it. Thank you for the great information on greywing genetics. Having looked it over, I'm wondering, do you think my chicks fall under the different phenotypes possible? (But not dilute, I don't think any of them look like dilutes.)

 

 

 

 

 

can you please just put each chick separately from 1 - 6 dont need new photos I am just getting confused with which chick is which the way they are presented at moment.

can you put them 1 under the other and label them 1,2, 3 etc... and I will go in order from top to bottom.

thanks

GB

okay, will do. I might run over my photo limit, though!

 

 

Chick 1:

 

 

 

 

Chick 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chick 3:

 

 

 

 

Chick 4:

 

 

 

 

That's 15 photos. I'm posting it now, and then I'll add the rest after someone else posts

 

Chick 1:

 

 

 

 

 

i think this chick is normal grey wing full bodyed hen i think light green but im no good with green and telling dark from light

 

Chick 2

 

 

 

 

light green cinnamon hen cant see tail but this one i suspected could be cinnamon clearwing could i see its tail please but either way grey wing or clearwing its cinnamon as well

 

Chick 3:

 

 

 

 

grey wing i think dark green i think a cock i am not to sure on this one ... so but i guess cock n just greywing full bodied

Chick 4:

 

 

 

 

this one i think is a cinnamon opaline hen dark green full body grey wing

 

remember these are just my guesses im not a breeder of grey wings and only know what ive read on them however i do think your cock is cinnamon grey wing

pied if theys chicks can no way be olive then i do feel that the murky green in last on is just the cinnamon affecting the dark green

 

this is all only guesses you would really have to wait till you breed them to know for sure put dad to a cinnamon hen not / grey wing if he gets cocks n hens in cinnamon you know hes cinnamon grey wing

hope i helped wish someone with grey wing experience would just say their opinion

as im not confident on mine but makes sense to the colour changes in the grey wing as im certain their grey wings

Edited April 21, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

Thank you for your help, GB.

 

Here's the last two:

 

Chick 5:

 

 

 

 

And Chick 6:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos of the tail of Chick 2 will have to wait. But I went and looked at it, and it is pretty much all green, like the body color, with a little bit of grey.

 

Oh, and thank you for the suggestion about what hen to put him with. It makes sense to get the greywing out of the equation.

 

I was planning to let this pair go another round, but the timing is bad for me, so I will see what else I have to pair him with later. So far all my cinnamon hens are turning out to be split for greywing.

well finnie to be plainly honest i really am stuffed on these pics that chick 6 looks like its got a black tail in this picture and looks grey green but i know its not

 

i was chatting with a friend over them

we concluded that you had clearwings and grey wings the clearwings are in our opinion

 

numbers 1 , 2 , 3 and 6

the grey wings were 4 , 5 however i still think their could be cinnamon affecting some these birds

but then again messing with clearwing n greywings messes up the genetic aperiance of both the varietys visually to a point grey wings and clearwings all look full body grey wing so may not have cinnamon just merrky clearwings and full bodie grey wings so ..... really finnie you are truly not real ever going to get a true answer unless you can ask a breeder in your area in life their opinion

but mine is clearwings and greywings full bodied greywings at that

i really do believe theirs at least 3 clearwings in my opinion and two grey wings im unsure of one of them but i trust my friend as they did one stage breed clearwings so whom better to ask :}

 

good luck with it all its really a pitty you can not get day light shots for us

 

ps i still think theirs cinnamon in their spesh chick 2

I love watching these babies grow up :D

 

I agree a couple do look like cinnamon's - just going by the throat patches(it seems easier to see the brown there then on the wings for me anyway)

 

but none have any long tail feathers that are brown - like a cinnamon should

but then again none of them have Grey tail feathers for a Grey wing

 

to me they all look to have Navy blue tail feathers (i've looked at the pics on 2 different monitors Thought maybe it was the settings but both monitors show me the same thing) and some are very dark navy blue and do almost look black.

 

Also clear wing is considered "rare" - at least In our neck of the woods ( I'm only like an hour away from her and we're friends in real life )

 

But I know nothing is impossible specially in the bird world

 

How easily would it be to have a clear wing and never know it? meaning Since most birds these days don't seem to fit the "Standard" description of what they are supposed to look like could it be easily said that they are in fact in our area and people just don't recognize them as clear wings because they don't meet the standard looks/description of a clear wing?

 

I haven't read too much on clear wings since every where I go it says its Rare so i just took it as I'd never come across one here in the United States or at least not our area, is it a gene that can be split? or is it dominant?

 

 

Hopefully that makes sense it did in my head before I typed it all out

its recessive gene so can easily be around

spesh in a rec gen to a grey wing bird or dilute

 

if you two are friends why dont you pop over and take pics while she holds bird near a sun beam in the house through a window

while she holds bird and spreads wings out and shows tail quills

 

also one of dad like this

 

but still think clearwings and greywings and cinnamon in with it going by cheak patches and fact they are not dulited to the colour a true greywing would be

all full body grey wings hold the clearwing genetic im pretty sure

as i said i do not beed nor care to so no nothing much on them

its recessive gene so can easily be around

spesh in a rec gen to a grey wing bird or dilute

 

if you two are friends why dont you pop over and take pics while she holds bird near a sun beam in the house through a window

while she holds bird and spreads wings out and shows tail quills

 

also one of dad like this

 

but still think clearwings and greywings and cinnamon in with it going by cheak patches and fact they are not dulited to the colour a true greywing would be

all full body grey wings hold the clearwing genetic im pretty sure

as i said i do not beed nor care to so no nothing much on them

 

 

 

We don't live close enough to each other to do that

well finnie to be plainly honest i really am stuffed on these pics that chick 6 looks like its got a black tail in this picture and looks grey green but i know its not

 

i was chatting with a friend over them

we concluded that you had clearwings and grey wings the clearwings are in our opinion

 

numbers 1 , 2 , 3 and 6

the grey wings were 4 , 5 however i still think their could be cinnamon affecting some these birds

but then again messing with clearwing n greywings messes up the genetic aperiance of both the varietys visually to a point grey wings and clearwings all look full body grey wing so may not have cinnamon just merrky clearwings and full bodie grey wings so ..... really finnie you are truly not real ever going to get a true answer unless you can ask a breeder in your area in life their opinion

but mine is clearwings and greywings full bodied greywings at that

i really do believe theirs at least 3 clearwings in my opinion and two grey wings im unsure of one of them but i trust my friend as they did one stage breed clearwings so whom better to ask :}

 

good luck with it all its really a pitty you can not get day light shots for us

 

ps i still think theirs cinnamon in their spesh chick 2

 

 

I love watching these babies grow up :D

 

I agree a couple do look like cinnamon's - just going by the throat patches(it seems easier to see the brown there then on the wings for me anyway)

 

but none have any long tail feathers that are brown - like a cinnamon should

but then again none of them have Grey tail feathers for a Grey wing

 

to me they all look to have Navy blue tail feathers (i've looked at the pics on 2 different monitors Thought maybe it was the settings but both monitors show me the same thing) and some are very dark navy blue and do almost look black.

 

Also clear wing is considered "rare" - at least In our neck of the woods ( I'm only like an hour away from her and we're friends in real life )

 

But I know nothing is impossible specially in the bird world

 

How easily would it be to have a clear wing and never know it? meaning Since most birds these days don't seem to fit the "Standard" description of what they are supposed to look like could it be easily said that they are in fact in our area and people just don't recognize them as clear wings because they don't meet the standard looks/description of a clear wing?

 

I haven't read too much on clear wings since every where I go it says its Rare so i just took it as I'd never come across one here in the United States or at least not our area, is it a gene that can be split? or is it dominant?

 

 

Hopefully that makes sense it did in my head before I typed it all out

 

Well, GB, I really appreciate you asking your friend about these!

 

I have to say, I think that there must be clearwing in them.

 

And KM, what you said does make sense. I think we do have clearwings here, but since no one is breeding them to show standards, they don't have nice clear wings, like the exhibition budgies.So yes, they probably go unrecognized. I always thought my first ever hen Finnie was a clearwing, but people said no, just grewywing, maybe full body. Well, she has offspring that look clearwing to me, so now I think she must be greywing/clearwing.

 

I've read so many times that interbreeding between greywings and clearwings has caused regular greywings to have stronger body color, and makes clearwings get heavier wing markings.

 

But so many of my other greywing budgies have such dark body color, that I strongly suspect that I have clearwing splits in my flock. One of my future goals, which I may never get to, is to find some dilutes, and try to separate out what my various greywing genes might be.

 

But when I look at a few of these chicks, especially from across the room, they have such DARK bodies, and such BRIGHT YELLOW wings, that I think they must be something different than just regular greywings. GB, you said you and your friend think the clearwing ones are 1,2,3 and 6. Well, that confirms what I have been thinking about chicks 1 and 3. I will have to take another look at 2 and 6. #6 has darker grey markings on the wings, which is what got me to thinking about how much lighter 1 and 3 were in comparison.

#2 is the light green opaline, so maybe when I look at him, I think it's the opaline lightening up his wings. I will have to go scrutinize him some more.

 

As far as cinnamon goes, none of them had plum eyes. And only the girls can be cinnamon, because the mother doesn't have it. There are only two that might, might be starting to look like girls. Those are #5 and #1. The rest are totally boys, so they can't have cinnamon. But they could be split for it, if that makes a difference. (If you think #2 looks like a hen, then it must just be a bad photo, cuz he's such a boy, lol!)

 

Recently I looked up Nubbly's thread on clearwings (It's pinned), and she says they should have neutral tail quills, with some body color in the tail feathers. So I've been looking at the tails on these, and they are all grey, except for the one that looks black. Now, Nubbly's examples (I'm pretty sure it was Nubbly's post, I'm too lazy to go now and check ) her examples she said one was a clearwing, but it was poorly marked, so it had grey for it's tail quill. If I have any clearwing at all, I'm sure it would be very poorly marked, so maybe it's okay if their tail quills are grey.

 

And I still think that #5 might be a normal. He is just so DARK! and his tail has real black on it. But then, the wing markings are "softer" than most normal black budgies. So if GB and her friend still think #5 is greywing, well then I guess he must be.

 

I've really liked this clutch, too, KM, thanks. It's sad that all but two of them are going to homes soon, and I won't get to see what they look like after they moult, although I'm going to ask their owners to send photos. But because of the lack of girls, and because I want to see if I can get more "clearwings", I am going to repeat this breeding after Nelly has had a rest. So for any of them to be actual visual clearwings, that must mean that Nelly has either a clearwing gene, or a dilute gene. Well, I've been looking at her. It's hard for me to tell on a sky blue, but I don't think her body color looks very washed out. Not 50% anyway. So maybe she is a Full Body Greywing, too.

 

KM, maybe they are lurking everywhere, and we just don't realize it.

 

Oh, and it's okay if you cant' come all the way over here just to hold birds in the window while I photograph them. I can try to get one of my many children to help me.

 

 

In the meantime, I forgot I had a group shot of some of them I was going to post. Here it is:

 

 

I think it goes L-R, 3,1,5,6

 

 

 

 

And here, L-R, Nelly, 6,3,5,1 (I think)

 

 

Edited April 26, 201114 yr by Finnie

they've grown up so fast

 

I'm with ya on having the kids help - that's who i sucker in to help me but mine are still young enough to fall for the line of "Hey If you give me a hand I'll give a a quarter" how ever my son is catching on and Will say well mom depends on what it is you need help with it may cost ya 75 cents The things I can get them to do with a pocket full of change I'm so going to miss that when they no longer fall for it LOL

 

I totally agree we probably do have Clear wings floating er flying around every where and we don't know it because they don't match the descriptions at all , it also doesn't help if you go to multiple sites to compare "notes" and a few of them tell you something completely different then your back to scratching your head wondering what in the world one is supposed to look like LOL and the worst ones are the ones with NO pictures - Do they not understand we need pictures to understand the 14 page description they just confused us with (Yes I'm exaggerating but some do go on and on and on and no pictures to help out at all)

 

there has been a time or 2 I thought I've had one, But it didn't meet the requirements exactly, then I just figured They were clear flight pied But a couple of them were a combo pied with Dominant pied being one and I thought Clear wing was the other But went with Clear flight instead because It seemed more logical in our area that I'd have clear flight pied, or clear flight dominant pied combo's rather than Clear wings or Clear wing dominant pied combos lol

 

but only time will tell I reckon

 

And if I ever figure out what exactly Gabriel and Mystic full mutations are and why I got an odd child out of them if it is in fact a dilute and NOT just a grey wing or not a grey wing at all or how ever it would work, any way if they end up being split to dilute and you still need dilute birdies when we figure them out You know where to get at least a couple

 

who knows maybe I'll get super lucky and find some good clear wings at the bird fair on Sunday Wishful thinking on my part I know but hey I found a Texas Clear body at the one on the 17th So it may not be entirely impossible and that was the 1st time EVER I have seen a Texas Clear body in person or In our area - Granted it was the next state over but it was only a bit over a hour away so still our area lol

Edited April 27, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

number 5 - black or dark blue tail??

 

being reading from the start. if that chick as a black tail then you have a clear sign of what colour Mystery is. (i never liked the idea of him being just a dark green)

its recessive gene so can easily be around

spesh in a rec gen to a grey wing bird or dilute

 

if you two are friends why dont you pop over and take pics while she holds bird near a sun beam in the house through a window

while she holds bird and spreads wings out and shows tail quills

 

also one of dad like this

 

but still think clearwings and greywings and cinnamon in with it going by cheak patches and fact they are not dulited to the colour a true greywing would be

all full body grey wings hold the clearwing genetic im pretty sure

as i said i do not beed nor care to so no nothing much on them

 

We don't live close enough to each other to do that

 

 

i only suggested as you said you live an hour away and were friends in real life so.... i didnt mean run over to hold em straight away just thought when you were visiting

Edited April 27, 201114 yr by GenericBlue

number 5 - black or dark blue tail??

 

being reading from the start. if that chick as a black tail then you have a clear sign of what colour Mystery is. (i never liked the idea of him being just a dark green)

 

 

Today wasn't a good day for getting photos, too dark and rainy. But I studied his tail (chick 5), so I could give you a description. It has a black quill, the two main tail feathers are part black and part body color (I'm guesssing that's due to the opaline.) And the smaller tail feathers, two on each side, are really dark navy.

 

I agree, I'm sure Mystery must have something going on besides just dark green. That's why I asked if maybe violet factor could cause him to look olive. we've ruled out grey factor due to violet cheek patches. And KM brought up slate as an idea, but we figured that would be too rare to just show up here in a pet type.

Okay, here is where I admit that I was wrong about chick 2 being totally male, because now it is looking like a hen after all.

 

To throw a normal chick (chick 5), Mystery must be only split to greywing, which means that he must then be cinnamon. Which means that if this is a hen, then she must be cinnamon, in addition to her greywing. No one ever answered my question about whether a cinnamon chick can be born with back eyes. The oldest they could be when I first find them is 12 hours old, as I check the nests at 8:30 am and 8:30 pm. Perhaps it was plum, and it changed to black more quickly than usual? I always write down their eye color, even if I expect all black eyes in a nest. All 6 of these chicks had black eyes.

 

So I tried to get some sunshine pictures of Chick 2, like GB suggested. So here's a bunch.

 

Sorry this one is blurry, but I didn't want to use flash. This is the only photo that looks cinnamon, to me, but it could just be a trick of the lighting.

 

 

 

 

 

The sunshine doesn't seem very bright in those photos, but they were taken right next to my sliding door. That's about as bright as I could get them.

 

 

 

With flash:

 

 

Without flash:

I'm not seeing the notorious tail feathers being brown that signifies when a budgie is cinnamon

 

but then again the tail isn't grey like it should be for a Grey wing either

 

it looks green with navy blue on the outside

 

its a bit hard to see their tails well but you can see both have Brown tails as babies(and now as juveniles still do)

 

http://i640.photobuc...and4on81010.jpg

 

this one is a little harder to tell it has a grey tail because its also Opaline but you can tell a bit that the longer tail feather is grey

http://i640.photobuc...babyon12911.jpg

Edited May 6, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

the tail is an opaline tail