My olive green recessive pied cinnamon cock named Mystery has six chicks with Nelly, who is a sky blue opaline greywing.

 

So I was expecting to see some plum eyes in the nest, but there were none. I guess there is always the possibility that all six chicks are boys, but that seems a little unlikely to me. So I'm beginning to doubt if Mystery is in fact cinnamon after all.

 

If he's not cinnamon, then he must be greywing. In that case, there can be no normal chicks in the nest, they would all be greywing.

 

But as these chicks are getting their pin feathers, I think that some of them look like normals.

 

I guess I should just be patient and wait, because obviously, whether they are normal or greywing will become apparent soon.

 

But I just wanted to know if anyone can tell at this young age whether a chick is greywing. So here are some photos:

 

 

 

Chick #1, 16 days old:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chick #3, 15 days old:

 

 

 

 

 

Chick #4, 14 days old:

 

 

 

 

Chick #5, 12 days old:

 

 

 

 

Oh, and I guess it would be a good idea to include some photos of Mystery.

 

 

 

 

 

And from when he was younger, when I first got him:

 

 

You need to be looking at the tail feathers to check for greywing as it will be more evident there before the wings at this stage.

Edited March 31, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

Thanks, Kaz. Evening check is in about 15 minutes, so I will look at tails.

Check in some of my greywing breeding topics as there may be signs in those chicks you can look out for

 

here's one http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=26390&view=findpost&p=352045&hl=greywing&fromsearch=1

Check in some of my greywing breeding topics as there may be signs in those chicks you can look out for

 

here's one http://forums.budgie...ng&fromsearch=1

 

 

That was a good idea.

 

I think by looking at yours, I can tell that they are all greywings. Some look darker than others, but not so it would fool you into thinking it was a normal.

 

I looked at the tails of mine, and I think they are grey. Just that some of them are a very dark grey. Here are the tail shots, in age order:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They change so much every day at this stage, that I'm sure it won't be long until I can tell for sure.

Here is a picture of the whole clutch:

 

 

 

 

And for comparison, here is a picture of two chicks from another clutch, which are about the same ages. These other two are obviously one normal and one greywing, so I guess if it's not so obvious in Mystery's clutch, then maybe they are all greywings after all.

 

Two of Riley and Aveline's chicks :

 

It's been a few days. Here are some photos of the ones that I think look the darkest.

 

Chick 4

 

 

 

 

Chick 5

 

 

 

Chick 6

 

 

 

 

 

And I thought it would be inteersting to show the change in chick six's tail in just a few days:

 

 

 

My reason for doing this pairing was because I wanted to get some boy chicks that would be split for cinnamon, opaline, and greywing. (And blue, in case Mystery wasn't already split for blue, and it looks like he isn't.)

 

And I was hoping to get some hens that were cinnamon, which would have been guaranteed, if Mystery really was cinnamon, and if any chicks were girls.

 

Well, if Mystery is not cinnamon, then I get NONE of what I wanted. I guess my only hope at this point is that the chicks actually do turn out to be ALL boys. (It could happen ) So now instead of tormenting myself over whether they are greywings or not, I am constantly examining their ceres to look for any signs of hens. Of course, I can't get very good photos, and they ALL come out looking like hens in the photos. But looking at them in real life, I can pretty much convince myself that they look like boys!

 

 

It certainly is a waiting game, isn't it? But at least I know that time will tell, eventually. Watching the daily changes in the chicks is the fun part, anyway.

More pictures, as they keep growing.

 

Chick 1:

 

 

 

 

 

Chick 2:

 

 

Chick 3:

 

 

 

Chick 4:

 

 

 

 

Chick 5:

 

 

 

Chick 6:

 

 

 

 

 

I know the photos didn't come out that great, but does anybody think we have any girls or any normals in the lot?

To me, from my monitor they all look like little hens. Chick 3's first photo I thought cock, but then I saw the second photo and it screams hen at me. They look Greywing too - well the ones that are feathered enough that I can see. Chicks 5 and 6 could possibly be normal but I'm guessing they too are Greywing. Will need to wait until they're a bit more feathered so I can give a better guess The more experienced members will be able to help out more, i'm sure

 

They are so cute Finnie! I can't wait til I start mine breeding again - this time I will be able to put 4 pairs down at once!

Thanks Amy.

 

For me, four pairs is a handful! Thankfully, the hens decided to stagger themselves. I have two nests that started hatching about 3 weeks ago, and the other two hens laid later, so their chicks are just starting to hatch now. It is the fun part, though, isn't it?

Terrific to see you have greywings Do you recall if any had plum eyes at hatching ?

Terrific to see you have greywings Do you recall if any had plum eyes at hatching ?

 

 

That's the whole problem! The dad was supposed to have been cinnamon, but not one of the chicks had plum eyes. So then I began to doubt whether he really was cinnamon. The greywing is a bonus, because even though the hen is greywing, I didn't suspect that the cock would be.

 

Do you suppose that sometimes a plum eyed chick could have such dark eyes that they don't look plum? But then, they'd still have to look cinnamon when they feathered up, wouldn't they?

 

So I'm back to the same conclusion. Either there are no hen chicks, or the father isn't cinnamon.

Terrific to see you have greywings Do you recall if any had plum eyes at hatching ?

 

 

That's the whole problem! The dad was supposed to have been cinnamon, but not one of the chicks had plum eyes. So then I began to doubt whether he really was cinnamon. The greywing is a bonus, because even though the hen is greywing, I didn't suspect that the cock would be.

 

Do you suppose that sometimes a plum eyed chick could have such dark eyes that they don't look plum? But then, they'd still have to look cinnamon when they feathered up, wouldn't they?

 

So I'm back to the same conclusion. Either there are no hen chicks, or the father isn't cinnamon.

A greywing who is carrying cinnamon will hatch with plum eyes. A top breeder over here had a clutch of chicks from a very expensive bought in greywing and to his horror discovered the resulting chicks hatched with plum eyes meaning the greywing bought in at great expense was split for cinnamon. Chicks looked greywing but upon closer inspection had a hue about the feathering that showed that were cinnamon greywings as well. He was not impressed. Cinnamon isnt something greywing breeders want mixed in with their greywing breeding plans.

For you to see cinnamon mixed into the your greywing feathering might be difficult for an untrained eye.

Yes, I would say my eye is definitely untrained.

 

I have a hen chick that hatched last fall, and she was born with plum eyes, so I expected her to feather up cinnamon colored. But she turned out greywing. So I am sure that she is both, but heck if I can see any cinnamon at all! She just looks a little paler than the other greywing chicks from that clutch.

 

At least I don't have to worry about messing up anybody's show stock, when I combine the cinnamon with the greywing. Mine are all just pet types.

 

 

This tail looks very blue to me, and if I'm not mistaken, aren't greywing tails meant to be grey? So could that be a sign that it's normal? Here are the wings of the same chick. I'm pretty sure it's opaline.

 

 

 

 

That particular greywing is also an olive greywing it looks like so that would account for the tail colour I expect.

That particular greywing is also an olive greywing it looks like so that would account for the tail colour I expect.

 

 

Except he can't be olive because his mother is sky blue.

 

So he does look like a greywing to you?

That particular greywing is also an olive greywing it looks like so that would account for the tail colour I expect.

 

 

Except he can't be olive because his mother is sky blue.

 

So he does look like a greywing to you?

Yes...looks greywing to me

not sure of the babies But then again you know it takes me til they're pretty much feathered most of the time to be able to tell most mutations (dang bad eyes lol Even with glasses its no help lol) BUT The dad does look cinnamon Maybe its harder to tell since he's Green series and cinnamon and even grey wing seems to be so much easier to see on a blue series bird Since they're lighter and not all covered in yellow I think with your dad the yellow is mixing with the brown of the cinnamon and just making it hard to tell what he is.

 

but Your not alone on second guessing the mutation of your male I'm starting to second guess Zeus which isn't the 1st time I've second guessed on him LOL some times he looks sky blue cinnamon other times he looks normal I know he has cinnamon since I keep getting cinnamon's BUT if he's only split then some of his normals would be girls too and now I'm confused with the clutch of his I have now his last clutch was with a Grey Spangle they had 4 babies 1 male normal sky blue, 3 Females 2 Grey cinnamon's 1 Grey cinnamon spangle

 

this time he's with the albino masking Opaline - 9 eggs 6 babies born 3 survived one that died was cinnamon (plum eyes) I am not sure about the 1st one who died as when I found it buried under the bedding it had been dead for a while and I never even knew it was born , 2nd one died was dark eyed. 3 left are 2 normals 1 cinnamon I'm thinking if he was just split to cinnamon I wouldn't be getting as many cinnamon's as I am

 

Maybe our birds are meant to keep us on our toes, Because we keep getting surprises even from pairings we know their background we find surprises any way

Okay, now I have a new theory.

 

It is true, as Kaz mentioned, that some of the babies look like they are olive green.

Based on the parents, though, I should be getting 100% single dark factor offspring.

But there is quite a bit of variation in their shades of "dark green".

So now I'm beginning to wonder if Mystery might be.......Grey Factored!

 

I don't have a good front on shot of him, but here is his back again, and it shows pretty much the same color as his front:

 

 

 

 

I know that's not much to go on. Tomorrow I'll work on getting some better photos of Mystery. And I'll have to get some shots of the chicks once they feather up a little more.

 

But in the meantime, I have a couple of theoretical questions about grey factor.

 

1. Would grey factor make greywing markings darker? Some of the chicks have lighter markings, and some darker. (Actually, there's even one who now that it's been a couple of days, he's so dark, I'm convinced he's a normal.)

 

2. To tell the difference between olive and grey-green, you look at the tail, right? And blue = olive, but black= grey green, right? That won't help me with Mystery, but it might with the chicks.

3. What color cheek patches could I expect for a grey green? (I know where to find the answer to this last question, I'll go look it up myself. )

front:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this photo he doesnt look cinnamon...his markings look grey AND if he was cinnamon his colour wouldnt be that strong either

 

is Mum definitely skyblue or could she be sky violet or carrying violet ?

Edited April 9, 201114 yr by **KAZ**

front:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this photo he doesnt look cinnamon...his markings look grey AND if he was cinnamon his colour wouldnt be that strong either

 

is Mum definitely skyblue or could she be sky violet or carrying violet ?

 

That' a good point about his body color not being washed out. I've wondered about that too, before. Here is another old photo of him where he looks a little more cinnamon, but yeah, still not conclusive.

 

 

 

I also looked up cheek patches, so now I know they should be grey on a grey factored bird. His are pied out, so it's hard to see their color. I will definitley have to try to get better photos of him tomorrow.

 

The hen COULD be violet factored. She probably is. But she is definitely sky, not cobalt. Both of her parent were sky, and all of her siblings. I even tried to see if I could have been wrong about her parents, and really looked hard at her to see if there was dark factor, but there just isn't. I'm not sure if the photos at the top of this thread show her very well. I'll have to get some good ones of her, too. Oh, she is in my siggy! The one who's not yellowface.

Based on the strength of colour he has I would say he is NOT cinnamon.

Gosh those markings look brown though! Although greywing on green markings can tend to look a bit brown too. He's definitely not a greygreen though Finnie! Cheek patches although pied out a bit, look too violet to be grey factored and his rump colour is mottled and very green - not what you'd expect from a grey green even of a dark factor. I have breed cinnamon olives in some numbers over the years and I wouldn't say that the body colour is too dark seeing as we can only really see rump colour which is always a bit darker. Mystery sure is a good name for him!

 

As to the body colour of your chicks.... IF any of them are also cinnamon that is going to affect the body colour as will opaline so might not be a great indicator.

I Agree he's not Grey Green I have one (Lance) and his color is not that dark

 

This is lance when he was younger - He doesn't look much different now other than bigger and older But I'm not on my own computer so I don't have any Updated pics of him on this one

 

 

he's also Spangle but that doesn't change his body color at all so not a problem there comparing him to yours

 

I've looked at your pictures on 2 different models - they're 2 different brands, sizes, and One (the one I'm on) is about 4 years old while the other is only about 5 months old - On BOTH he looks cinnamon

 

as for Nelly does she have any Violet around her Neck, Rump or legs? the Violet factor is not always able to be seen when a bird carries it BUT those are the main spots they can be seen in On mine I can visually with out a doubt see the violet right on the neck Where the white stops and the body color starts

 

another option Mystery MAY carry the violet factor its very hard to tell when a Green Series bird carries it

it is very hard to tell if yellow-based budgies carry a violet factor. The violet usually darkens the green of the body feathers similarly to a dark factor.

that is from the Violet Factor section on budgieplace.com

 

and this is about the Grey Factor from the same site

Gray factor is a color-adding factor. If a budgie has a grey factor, the color grey is added to the budgie's original body color. The grey factor is very strong and overrides the underlying color. Normal yellow-based budgies with a grey factor will be a grey-green color. Normal white-based budgies with a grey factor will be a grey color

Edited April 9, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding