Numbers two and three are indeed cinnamons, I can see it well now. Well, at least it's a good thing they're not the pied ones, I didn't wish for any surprises on this clutch, but you can never know. The male chick in the previous clutch from the same cock (his only offspring this far) was so scarsely marked, that I couldn't ever really tell if he was a cinnamon or not, but now I think he was. His mother was also a cinnamon, but in this clutch there can luckily be only cinnamon females.

 

The only thing not wanting to have cinnamons is that the hen carries greywing and I don't like mixing those two mutations. Now if one of those pieds ended up being female I'd keep that, to secure not to carry on the cinnamon gene, but with my luck both of them are boys... But that remains yet to be seen.

hey

well i cant explain a cup to you both sorry as im not good with maths or meshure (or clearly spelling to be honest)

but i just use mason jar feeders

3 feeders per cabinet with two with budgie /finch and one with hulled otes and small parrot mix

they have a small d cup of red pannicum seeds also

the two jar feeds with the budgie/ finch are 700ml woolworth coffee brand jars

and they are replaced halfway through the second day ..so a day and a half and they are emptyed

the small parrot lasts two days and is a standard masson jar feeding jar comes with the lids and the red panicum seed gets eatten dayly

this is average of 4 to 5 chicks per clutch

 

i hope that helps you gauge the amount nececery for healthy stuffed full chicks

thats not saying the soft food and seed grasses bread that they also get silver beet /spinach extra

 

 

Thanks I just now saw this

 

If I'm understanding it right - I never was good at math - but I used Google (he's supposed to be my best friend but not always LOL)

 

700 Ml equals 23.67 U.S. Ounces

23.67 U.S. Ounces Equals 2.96 Cups

 

so your 700ML is just a bit over Our(united states anyway) 2 cups --- That makes more sense to me

 

When i feed mine I use a 1/4 cup Measuring cup so that in ML is 60 ML

but like i said earlier my breeders get 2 of those 1/4 measuring cups when they have babies to feed (also the community cage that houses multiple birds get more than just 1 of the 1/4 cups - They have several bowls I fill up and 1 of the bowls gets 2 1/4 cups

 

and that doesn't include their pellets, veggies, birdie bread etc

 

So if I did the conversions right I think I understand now

 

but I also only have roughly 30(got to do a new head count sine I got new birds lol) Budgies to feed

 

but I think I understand the difference in measuring now - if not I just confused my self even more than I already was

Edited March 15, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

Fresh photos!

 

Number one, now if you click on this, a bigger picture that is, can you (too?) see some irisrings developing already? At what time do they usually start developing them anyway?

 

 

 

 

 

Number two, she's a cute little cinnamon girl, isn't she just!

 

 

 

 

Number three, possibly grey, because I still can't see any blue anywhere, but she's cinnamon too.

 

 

And finally four

very cute all of them.

 

looked at the big picture link and saw no sign of any iris. not sure what part you are looking at. the iris is normally at the big moult time around the 3-4 months mark.

very cute all of them.

 

looked at the big picture link and saw no sign of any iris. not sure what part you are looking at. the iris is normally at the big moult time around the 3-4 months mark.

 

You're probably right I just want it to have iris rings so much, so obviously I'm trying too hard to see them okay, but, we'll leave them poor babies developing iris rings in their right time, maybe the ceres instead will tell something earlier on.

Some fresh photos, no iris rings in these, but the eldest one has them coming, I do see them, actually! Here's still a link to a bigger picture, if someone else also can see the little brownish iris ring on the chick. But maybe you can see it only, when you hold the bird in your hand yourself.

 

Grey dutch pied? (I'm still not convinced!) Has grey coming maybe half way up his chest, blotchy.

 

 

Sky blue cinnamon opaline

 

 

Grey cinnamon

 

 

Grey pied

 

they are looking good mate well done

They're just getting lovelier day after day

 

I named them too, here's Filip(pa) as the gender is not for sure... if anyone has any clue...? He's now 31 days old. He took a little flight today too, when photographying them Very curious little creatures already, it won't be much longer he's out of the nest by himself.

 

 

 

 

Number two is Flii, now 29 days.

 

 

 

 

Here's Fleia, 25 days.

 

 

 

 

And finally Fokus 23 days old.

 

 

New pics now, as the chicks have all come out of the nest

 

Eldest one with dad

 

 

The cinnamon skyblue

 

 

Cinnamon grey

 

 

And the baby pied

Do you have a bigger picture of the dad of these babies? I still say he's recessive pied and the 2 pied babies are as well

 

oh as for the iris rings you think you see its just a reflection - the eyes are so dark and clear that even w/out flash the eyes will often times reflect things I've taken pics of my birds and the actual Camera show up in their eyes - it's pretty cool actually

Edited April 8, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

Here's the same picture bigger, where you can see the dad's iris rings. He has them in both eyes.

 

I've actually consulted the head of MUTAVI research & advice group on this, never made the conslusion on the mutation myself - and yes - I still have my doubts! But I'm sure, that if he's got the recessive pied gene, which is likely, there's something else too. And at the moment he actually even has some blue on his cere, I guess the hormones are really running as they're stared to mate again (but not going to give them a chance for a second round)

 

Those two chicks can actually be recessive pieds even if the father was a dutch pied, incase he carries the rec pied gene. But well, I'm waiting for the ceres to turn to blue or stay pink and then wait for the iris rings, if they're to show

Here's the same picture bigger, where you can see the dad's iris rings. He has them in both eyes.

 

I've actually consulted the head of MUTAVI research & advice group on this, never made the conslusion on the mutation myself - and yes - I still have my doubts! But I'm sure, that if he's got the recessive pied gene, which is likely, there's something else too. And at the moment he actually even has some blue on his cere, I guess the hormones are really running as they're stared to mate again (but not going to give them a chance for a second round)

 

Those two chicks can actually be recessive pieds even if the father was a dutch pied, incase he carries the rec pied gene. But well, I'm waiting for the ceres to turn to blue or stay pink and then wait for the iris rings, if they're to show

 

Thanks for the bigger picture My eyes aren't all that great and I have problems seeing small pictures

 

Maybe he's a heavily Marked Double Factor pied?

I know the pied gene in general really just messes up everything about the bird - the cere, the markings the beak color etc

 

but I know Recessive pieds have a Orange beak not the normal skin tone color like Non pied or even Dominant pied and his looks Skin toned (tannish maybe a better word) or he could still be both Dominant and recessive pied visually and showing signs of both - would explain the Iris rings the skin tone beak and the cere turning blue. while he has the markings of a Recessive pied I'm not sure if all Dominant Recessive pied budgies loose pretty much all their markings or not Since I only have 1 I don't really have anything to compare her to

 

Also I've had a female who was Normal No pied at all, she was about 3 years old and Never had iris rings, She also was NOT split to recessive pied I put her with a Recessive pied and a Split to recessive pied and Got only Normals when put with the Recessive pied and when paired to the Split recessive pied I got normals and Dominant pied because he was visually Dominant pied never could figure out why she had no iris rings though Just figured it was some sort of genetic fluke, Maybe she missed the class that told her She's normal she was supposed to have Iris rings lol

Oh, I wish you wouldn't bring the details up again I have BIG difficulties understanding the genetics on a higher lever, where you have to go deeper into the cells etc.. With which all this confusion could be explained properly.

 

Anyway on some rare occasions a recessive + dominant pied can have ONE iris rings, but only that one. Never two, as the recessive pied can never haver iris rings. This I have been told by the author of this article, also, that the pink cere is just the pied marking (ie white) located on its cere, thus removing the colour from it, and this can be seen in pieds occasionally.

 

So this is what I've been told about this bird, that he has all the hallmarks of a dutch pied, except for the pink cere. And here we are, waiting for the chicks to grow... And today, I looked very hard, in different lightings on the eldest chicks eyes (lucky me he's very curious) and he does really actually have a hint of iris ring already...!! I'm positively sure! Though I cannot be sure, that it will ever grow stronger.. But hoping for it.

 

If RIP is still following this thread, maybe she could throw in some detailed knowledge in on the genetics, I know so little about...!

 

And what comes to a double factor dominant pied, dominants don't ever have that grizzled type marking that recessive and dutch pieds show. And this too, I have only been told after asking questions about him, I really don't know much myself

okay what you call a dutch pied is what we call a Clear flight pied - they are the exact same mutations Only different countries call them different names

 

Clearflight Pied A budgie that is clearflight pied will have all clear flight feathers. Sometimes also the major coverts (row of feathers above the flight feathers) and/or the tail feathers will also be clear. Usually a clearflight pied will have some small patches of clear body feathers up around the neck. Clearflight pieds also have a patch of clear feathers on the back of the head.

 

 

 

 

Your bird is not a clear flight pied

 

This is a clear flight pied

 

 

 

a Recessive pied is also known as a Danish Pied, or a Harlequin

and Looks Like this

 

 

The recessive pied variety can have anywhere from a mottled splotch pattern of markings to almost no markings on the wings.

The recessive pied almost always has a patch of normally colored body feathers near the bottom of the belly.

 

 

 

 

Pics and Quotes are from www.budgieplace.com (it is NOT a forum its a website that explains the mutations of budgies

 

 

The mutations and genetics isn't really hard I was surprised(and very happy) when I understood it I failed Science class All through school I never could get the hang of it. BUT I understand the genetics and mutations and how they work with the budgies (and the other birds I breed)

 

Also this page is helpful it has a Table part way down that shows the Name of the mutation and what Variations the mutation is called

http://en.wikipedia....colour_genetics

Edited April 10, 201114 yr by K&M Breeding

I know that dutch pied is a form of the clearflight pied. It was all on this thread earlier on.

 

I'd be happy, if you contacted either K Yorke or Inte Onsman what comes to your conclusions... really, this is just what they have told me and really, they know their genetics. I hope they don't mind me quoting on them in public

And I didn't mean the basics genetics, but the genetics in the cellular level, that's what I haven't been studying. I do know how all is inherited etc. Well, but. I wish you wouldn't come and tell what Nieve is, when people who have bread dutch pieds and clearflights for many generations and who have bred all other possible mutations too, have told me about this birds mutation and that it is their opinion about it.

 

You can say, that you don't believe it is a dutch pied, I'm having hard time believing it too (we don't even get normal looking clearflights here in Finland/Sweden), but you cannot say it for sure. This breeding, I hope, will tell the truth sooner or later, or if not this one, the next one then.

 

And if you didn't read the whole Know Your Pieds article, I suggest you do it too, it's really good reading.

 

Dutch pied is a variegated form of a clearflight, dutch comes originally from europe and other dominant pieds from australia. They got mixed later on and that's how pure dutch pieds are hard to come by nowadays. However, only dutch + rec. pied or clearflight + rec. pied can end up producing a DEC, so they do have something in common. Not everybody is convinced that they're actually the same mutation.

 

 

Here's some more links on the dutch pied:

 

http://www.euronet.nl/users/hnl/dutchpie.htm

 

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/specialist/pieds/tom.html

 

http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article9.htm

After several shots...

 

The eldest chicks eye:

 

 

 

And a slightly bigger picture here.

After several shots...

 

The eldest chicks eye:

 

 

 

And a slightly bigger picture here.

 

I can see the start of an iris ring now - it's not uncommon for them to get the iris rings early specially if they live in a Aviary or an Aviary type setting (many birds in one room qualifies) I usually know the sex of my babies by the time they're 3 months old I've had many at 1 1/2 to 2 months old females with dark brown ceres and Light grey (for around 6- 8 months old) iris rings, Males of the same age with bright blue ceres I've had 3-4 month old babies with White iris rings of an adult

 

The "aviary" setting (rather its an actual aviary or just a bunch of birds in the same room some times causes the babies to develop faster than those in a single bird home or a home with just a few birds - but of course this doesn't make them actually ready to breed just means you'll be able to tell the sex of some of them sooner

I was surprised to find the iris so early myself, I haven't noticed any on the other chicks though. This one really had the iris ring showing from under 30 days old, but even now it is hard to see unless the lighting is optimal.

 

What comes to the aviary surroundings, I have the rest of the flock upstairs in a big cage, but free flying and they can well discuss with each other from downstairs through open staircase when ever they want. Other wise separated.

 

So I guess, possibly, because I still don't quite believe it, but under the circumstances, when I've been told by experts - that he cannot be an australian dominant pied, that leaves me with only one option, which is the dutch pied. Still I wish the ceres on these chicks would end up blue and not pink, like the father has.

 

But were it this way or that, the chicks are adorable and most of them have good new homes waiting already

Edited April 12, 201114 yr by **KAZ**
personal insults to another member removed as it should be