So, now that I have determined he is a dominant pied grey violet, can you confirm the following:

 

- If I pair him with a normal skyblue hen - I should get 50% blue, 50% grey and some of these should carry violet

- If I pair him with the normal cobalt violet hen I am getting off the same breeder - I should once again get 50% blue, 50% grey and all should carry violet

 

Is this correct?

 

And does anyone want to take a punt a what dark factor my dominant pied grey violet cock is?! Looking at his colouring I'd say no dark factor, but I have not really seen too many grey budgies together and it seems to me to be very difficult to pick the dark factor in a grey, unlike the blues and green where it is fairly clear.

 

 

:rofl:

 

Anyone?

So, now that I have determined he is a dominant pied grey violet, can you confirm the following:

 

- If I pair him with a normal skyblue hen - I should get 50% blue, 50% grey and some of these should carry violet Yes, correct. Paired with a normal sky blue you should get 25% violet blue, 25% blue, 25% violet grey, 25% grey (not including any other possible mutations at this point).

- If I pair him with the normal cobalt violet hen I am getting off the same breeder - I should once again get 50% blue, 50% grey and all should carry violet No, not all. Single factor violet x single factor violet results in 25% no violet, 50% single factor violet, 25% double factor violet. Add in the blue vs grey and you get 12.5% no violet blue, 12.5% no violet grey, 25% single factor violet blue, 25% single factor violet grey, 12.5% double factor violet blue, 12.5% double factor violet grey (again not including other mutations or dark factors etc).

 

Is this correct?

 

And does anyone want to take a punt a what dark factor my dominant pied grey violet cock is?! Looking at his colouring I'd say no dark factor, but I have not really seen too many grey budgies together and it seems to me to be very difficult to pick the dark factor in a grey, unlike the blues and green where it is fairly clear.

 

 

:rofl:

 

Anyone?

 

Hard to say about the dark factor. Violet would give a dark factor-like change to his appearance, law of percentages would argue he has one dark factor :rofl: Could be zero, but its neither here nor there until you breed him!

So, now that I have determined he is a dominant pied grey violet, can you confirm the following:

 

- If I pair him with a normal skyblue hen - I should get 50% blue, 50% grey and some of these should carry violet Yes, correct. Paired with a normal sky blue you should get 25% violet blue, 25% blue, 25% violet grey, 25% grey (not including any other possible mutations at this point).

- If I pair him with the normal cobalt violet hen I am getting off the same breeder - I should once again get 50% blue, 50% grey and all should carry violet No, not all. Single factor violet x single factor violet results in 25% no violet, 50% single factor violet, 25% double factor violet. Add in the blue vs grey and you get 12.5% no violet blue, 12.5% no violet grey, 25% single factor violet blue, 25% single factor violet grey, 12.5% double factor violet blue, 12.5% double factor violet grey (again not including other mutations or dark factors etc).

 

Is this correct?

 

And does anyone want to take a punt a what dark factor my dominant pied grey violet cock is?! Looking at his colouring I'd say no dark factor, but I have not really seen too many grey budgies together and it seems to me to be very difficult to pick the dark factor in a grey, unlike the blues and green where it is fairly clear.

 

 

:rofl:

 

Anyone?

 

Hard to say about the dark factor. Violet would give a dark factor-like change to his appearance, law of percentages would argue he has one dark factor :rofl: Could be zero, but its neither here nor there until you breed him!

 

Thanks heaps for your help Dean!

also i breed my grey hen to my grey violet

my hen no dark factor grey and my violet one dark

i got

light grey

visual violet and grey and violet grey so

if that helps anyi also got one sky blue

 

if i was you breed him to a light blue (sky) that way you will see what factor dark if any he is

and more chance of a violet

Edited September 24, 201014 yr by GenericBlue

So, now that I have determined he is a dominant pied grey violet, can you confirm the following:- If I pair him with a normal skyblue hen - I should get 50% blue, 50% grey and some of these should carry violet Yes, correct. Paired with a normal sky blue you should get 25% violet blue, 25% blue, 25% violet grey, 25% grey (not including any other possible mutations at this point).- If I pair him with the normal cobalt violet hen I am getting off the same breeder - I should once again get 50% blue, 50% grey and all should carry violet No, not all. Single factor violet x single factor violet results in 25% no violet, 50% single factor violet, 25% double factor violet. Add in the blue vs grey and you get 12.5% no violet blue, 12.5% no violet grey, 25% single factor violet blue, 25% single factor violet grey, 12.5% double factor violet blue, 12.5% double factor violet grey (again not including other mutations or dark factors etc).Is this correct? And does anyone want to take a punt a what dark factor my dominant pied grey violet cock is?! Looking at his colouring I'd say no dark factor, but I have not really seen too many grey budgies together and it seems to me to be very difficult to pick the dark factor in a grey, unlike the blues and green where it is fairly clear.

Anyone?

Hard to say about the dark factor. Violet would give a dark factor-like change to his appearance, law of percentages would argue he has one dark factor Could be zero, but its neither here nor there until you breed him!

okay - so now that I'm a bit more awake and had a chance to think about this, I think I get it.Because the violet factor is partially dominant, you have around about a 75% chance of it coming through if you breed to birds that carry violet.Is this the case with all birds, or are some more likely to pass on the violet gene than others? And how do you tell a DF violet from a SF violet?Geez - I thought I had it, but now I'm confused again!

also i breed my grey hen to my grey violet my hen no dark factor grey and my violet one darki got light grey visual violet and grey and violet grey so if that helps anyi also got one sky blueif i was you breed him to a light blue (sky) that way you will see what factor dark if any he is and more chance of a violet

okay - now I see why you guys suggested breeding with a skyblue - so I can work out what dark factor he is. Interesting!

Edited September 24, 201014 yr by The Black Doctor

The chance of each gene getting passed on are quite simply worked out on punnet squares. Each bird has 1 pair (2 genes) for a specific mutation. There is a 50/50 chance the of passing on either gene to the child, and the childs pair is made up of 1 copy of the gene from each parent.

 

So for example if you have two normal greens, they both have the wild type gene for yellow production. Each parent will be (W/W) (w for wild type just for this example). In this case even though there is still a 50% chance for either of the genes to be passed on, they are all the same type of gene so all chicks will be (W/W).

 

If you then change one parent to be split for blue (W/:D and the other remains normal (W/W) then you do the Punnet square like this basically:

Parent 1: (W/:D

Parent 2: (W/W)

Possible combinations in the chicks:

 

Parent 1 (W) Parent 2 (W) (first of 2 W's)= (W/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (W) Parent 2 (W) (second of 2 W's) = (W/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (B.) Parent 2 (W) (first of 2 W's) = (B/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (B.) Parent 2 (W) (second of 2 W's) = (B/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

 

So you can see there, you will get 50% normal wildtype chicks (W/W) and 50% wild type (green) split for blue. (Eg add up all the identical mutation outcomes 1/4 + 1/4 or 25% and 25% and you get 50% for W/W and 50% for W/:D.

 

Now change it so BOTH parents are split for blue and you get this:

Parent 1: (W/:D

Parent 2: (W/B)

Possible combinations in the chicks:

 

Parent 1 (W) Parent 2 (W) (first of 2 yellow production genes)= (W/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (W) Parent 2 (B.) (second of 2 yellow production genes) = (W/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (B.) Parent 2 (W) (first of 2 yellow production genes) = (B/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

Parent 1 (B.) Parent 2 (B.) (second of 2 yellow production genes) = (B/W) chick (1/4 or 25%)

 

Now add up all similar mutation outcomes =

2 x W/B is 1/4 + 1/4 or 25% + 25% = 50% chance of (W/B) (Green split blue)

1 x W/W is 1/4 or 25% = 25% chance of (W/W) (Normal green)

1 x B/B is 1/4 or 25% = 25% chance of B/B (normal blue).

 

So to sum up you can say the outcomes for green split blue x green split blue are 25% normal green, 50% green split blue, 25% blue chicks. Or you could say one in four chicks will be normal green, 2 in four will be green split blue, 1 in four will be blue. AKA for every four chicks you will get ONE blue if thats what you are after But those are just the odds anyway. Single factor violet x single factor violet would be the same - 25% no violet, 50% single factor violet, 25% double factor violet. Whether a gene is recessive, full dominant, partial dominant or co-dominant has no affect on the chance of it getting passed on. Its ALWAYS 50/50 as two which of the 2 genes for the mutation is passed on and that applies to each gene that gets passed on to the sperm or egg. Sex linked are a little bit different however, wont go into that

 

This is the same for all mutations, look online for punnet sqaure examples or tests you can do yourself.

Edited September 25, 201014 yr by Dean_NZ

A way I like to look at it is for example the first one:

. w b

w w w/b

w w w/b

Edited September 25, 201014 yr by Squeak_Crumble

A way I like to look at it is for example the first one:

. w b

w w w/b

w w w/b

 

 

i can never do this dont know why

looks easy but i come out with so many weird awnsers

 

 

read this if you havent already its good reading

http://www.bcv.asn.au/Violets.pdf

 

Genetics of Violet Factor

 

Summary:

Violet Factor - semi-dominant

Normal - recessive

 

There are only two alleles for the violet trait: the violet factor gene and the normal gene. The violet factor gene is semi-dominant to the recessive normal gene. Because it is semi-dominant, in some cases a single-factor violet looks different from a double-factor violet. Here, we will represent the violet gene as "V" and the normal gene as "v". Therefore there are three possible genetic combinations for any budgie:

 

* vv - Two normal genes (homozygous) resulting in a normal budgie.

* Vv - One violet factor gene and one normal gene (heterozygous) resulting in a violet budgie only in cobalts and slightly detectable violet undertones in greens, sky blues, and mauves.

* VV - Two violet factor genes (homozygous) resulting in a violet budgie in cobalts and sky blues and detectable violet undertones in greens and mauves.

 

As you can see, the presence of one violet factor causes violet coloration in a budgie, but only causes true violet body color in cobalt budgies (budgies with one dark factor). Two violet factors cause the violet coloration in budgies to be more visible, but only causes true violet body color in cobalts and sky blues. It is difficult to breed true violets because of the conditions required to obtain the true violet body color. You can usually tell a green budgie has at least one violet factor. The violet darkens the green body color and sometimes causes violet to show in the feathers near the feet and vent. The feet may also look very dark or purple. Single-factor violet sky blues are darker that normal sky blues and usually show some violet coloration on the body feathers near the feet and vent. It is very difficult to tell if a mauve has the violet factor. Below are some punnet square examples of pairings.

Basic Violet Inheritance Patterns

 

A normal budgie and a single factor violet budgie

vvXVv

v v

V Vv Vv

v vv vv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

50% Single-Factor Violet

50% Normal

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

50% Heterozygous (Vv)

50% Homozygous recessive (vv)

 

 

A normal budgie and a double-factor violet budgie

vvXVV

v v

V Vv Vv

V Vv Vv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

100% Single-Factor Violet

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

100% Heterozygous (Vv)

 

Two single-factor violet budgies

VvXVv

V v

V VV Vv

v Vv vv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

25% Double-Factor Violet

50% Single-Factor Violet

25% Normal

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

50% Heterozygous (Vv)

25% Homozygous dominant (VV)

25% Homozygous recessive (vv)

 

 

A single factor violet budgie and a double factor grey budgie

VvXVV

V v

V VV Vv

V VV Vv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

50% Double-Factor Violet

50% Single-Factor Violet

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

50% Homozygous dominant (VV)

50% Heterozygous (Vv)

Advanced Violet Inheritance Patterns:

 

(Inheritance Patterns of both the Dark Factor and Violet Factor)

 

Two violet budgies (both cobalt, single-factor violet)

DdVvXDdVv

DV Dv dV dv

DV DDVV DDVv DdVV DdVv

Dv DDVv DDvv DdVv Ddvv

dV DdVV DdVv ddVV ddVv

dv DdVv Ddvv ddVv ddvv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

37.5% True Violet (Cobalt Violet)

18.75% Mauve Violet

12.5% Sky Blue Single-Factor Violet

12.5% Cobalt

6.25% Mauve

6.25% Sky Blue

6.25% True Violet (Sky Blue Double-Factor Violet)

 

 

A sky blue budgie and a violet budgie (cobalt, single-factor violet)

ddvvXDdVv

dv dv dv dv

DV DdVv DdVv DdVv DdVv

Dv Ddvv Ddvv Ddvv Ddvv

dV ddVv ddVv ddVv ddVv

dv ddvv ddvv ddvv ddvv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

25% True Violet (Cobalt Violet)

25% Cobalt

25% Sky Blue Single-Factor Violet

25% Sky Blue

Edited September 25, 201014 yr by GenericBlue

Thanks so much again for your time today GB.

 

Here's some photos of my new cobalt violet hen - with her future partner:

 

 

 

And with the normal grey hen:

 

 

I'll try and post some better photos once she's finished her next moult.

Thanks so much again for your time today GB.

 

Here's some photos of my new cobalt violet hen - with her future partner:

 

 

 

And with the normal grey hen:

 

 

I'll try and post some better photos once she's finished her next moult.

 

she has a lovely clean mantel

and beautiful; vibrant color would love to see her face if possible

you seem to of done well with her

and good choise to get some more visuals

even with a cobalt cock or a sky cock your bound to get more visuals with her

am i seeing right

does she seem to have very aqua blue flights and aqua running down each side of her deep blue (violet ?) tail

could she possibly be double factor sky violet not a visual (as in cobalt violet) they look the same exept that df sky violets are visually cobalt violet to look at but with aqua green flights and edging on tail

if so you hit the jack pot

i hope for you she is

and

any time im glad to help out

 

do you know percents of this bird or can you find out

Edited September 28, 201014 yr by GenericBlue

am i seeing right

does she seem to have very aqua blue flights and aqua running down each side of her deep blue (violet ?) tail

could she possibly be double factor sky violet not a visual (as in cobalt violet) they look the same exept that df sky violets are visually cobalt violet to look at but with aqua green flights and edging on tail

if so you hit the jack pot

i hope for you she is

 

GB, by jackpot, do you meant that if she is df violet sky blue, then when he puts her to the mauve cock, he will get 100% cobalt violets (visual violets)? That would be exciting!

am i seeing right

does she seem to have very aqua blue flights and aqua running down each side of her deep blue (violet ?) tail

could she possibly be double factor sky violet not a visual (as in cobalt violet) they look the same exept that df sky violets are visually cobalt violet to look at but with aqua green flights and edging on tail

if so you hit the jack pot

i hope for you she is

 

GB, by jackpot, do you meant that if she is df violet sky blue, then when he puts her to the mauve cock, he will get 100% cobalt violets (visual violets)? That would be exciting!

 

 

yep i do indeed

 

well i know he gets all violet in respect to something lol sorry im not relly thinking about now but yes it was written erlier in thread some where about the out come df violets

basiclly its the ticket to violets every where

if breed right

ill look latter for exact mating to produce all visual and or df violets

Edited September 29, 201014 yr by GenericBlue

I was thinking the same thing GB, but I didn't know how to pick a SF or DF skyblue from a cobalt violet. I have now read that Peter Bergman article and see what you mean by the turquoise flight and tail feathers. Hopefully it won't be too dark by the time I get home! I'll post some more pics tomorrow.

 

I'll be able to get a pedigree report next time I see the breeder. I will also give him a copy of that article - he'd be very interested in it I think.

Edited September 29, 201014 yr by The Black Doctor

I was thinking the same thing GB, but I didn't know how to pick a SF or DF skyblue from a cobalt violet. I have now read that Peter Bergman article and see what you mean by the turquoise flight and tail feathers. Hopefully it won't be too dark by the time I get home! I'll post some more pics tomorrow.

 

I'll be able to get a pedigree report next time I see the breeder. I will also give him a copy of that article - he'd be very interested in it I think.

 

its good article theirs a better one, but as far as understanding goes,... not so much better

 

the breeding results i was after

A normal budgie and a double-factor violet budgie

vvXVV

v v

V Vv Vv

V Vv Vv

 

Offspring Phenotype Results:

100% Single-Factor Violet

 

Offspring Genotype Results:

100% Heterozygous (Vv)

okay, took some more photos this morning and she doesn't appear to be a DF skyblue violet, just a SF cobalt violet (from my novice observations!). It was very overcast when I took these pictures, so there wasn't anywhere near as much light as there was yesterday:

 

 

 

 

 

 

She's not very photogenic - she kept flying away from me and turning her back!

Edited September 30, 201014 yr by The Black Doctor

Thats the good thing about having a sky blue, sf violet sky blue, cobalt and sf violet cobalts. If i have any trouble visually discerning violet, i can easily stand them next to a bird from each of those four colours and know where it stands.

 

Standing them next to a KNOWN normal or violet bird is the easiest way of comparing and judging!

Dean - hopefully in the not too distant future I'll have one of each - then I might be able to determine whats what!

okay, took some more photos this morning and she doesn't appear to be a DF skyblue violet, just a SF cobalt violet (from my novice observations!). It was very overcast when I took these pictures, so there wasn't anywhere near as much light as there was yesterday:

 

 

 

 

 

 

She's not very photogenic - she kept flying away from me and turning her back!

 

she will grow into a very useful hen shes got right looks and good size bird nice clean mantle too

choose well for her mate you could have a good start their if you get the right cock bird

and i agree cobalt violet

Very pretty girl!