In a nutshell, I want to know if all the pied genes (other than spangle) are all multiple alleles of the same gene, or if they are separate genes, found on separate locations of the chromosomes.

 

From what I've read and learned, I was always under the impression that the various pied genes were all found on the same locus, and were multiple alleles. I.e., you would have an order of dominance (or incomplete dominance) that went something like: dominant pied over clearflight pied over normal over recessive pied. And I always assumed that an individual bird could only have two copies of these genes. (Similar to the green/yellowface/blue series or the greywing/clearwing/dilute series.)

 

BUT

 

Occasionally, someone will phrase these things in a way that almost sounds like the different pieds genes are separate. For instance, the Dark Eyed Clear would be a SF or DF clearflight pied on one gene, and a visual (DF) recessive pied on the other gene. In that example, the bird actually has 4 pied genes: Clearflight/normal and recessive/recessive

 

The combination of Dominant pied and recessive pied is also confusing. Sometimes it sound like people are saying that a combo pied is either SF or DF dom pied AND also has two copies of the recessive pied gene.

 

So which is it? Are the clearflight pied, dominant pied and recessive pied genes all separate from each other? And if they are separate, why don't we have combinations of all 3 pieds?

 

(By the way, I did try to search for this, but I couldn't find anything that states it one way or the other. It's almost like it is common knowledge, so nobody actually tells it. I think that's why I assumed they were all one gene. I did try looking at a genetics calculator, but I got confused! )

There is no way I could explain this in english even if I understood it in french, but I'm a visual person and maybe you are too. They all are different alleles. Check on this chart, you'ill figure it out.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budgerigar_colour_genetics

As far as I understand most if not all of the pied genes are co-dominant. I havent touched up on my allele, loci etc vocab so I cant refer to that in proper terms but yes a dark eyed clear is a recessive pied (2 genes) plus clear flight pied. Also I have seen that clearflight pied (sF) plus dominant pied (sf) are co-dominant and result in a bird that appears recessive as far as wing markings and amount of clear feathers goes however they have iris rings..

There is no way I could explain this in english even if I understood it in french, but I'm a visual person and maybe you are too. They all are different alleles. Check on this chart, you'ill figure it out.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budgerigar_colour_genetics

 

 

Thank you for this, Martine. You're right, the chart indicates that they are all separate genes, found on different loci (or places, Dean) of the chromosome. Specifically, the recessive pied is found on the locus that is named "r+", the dominant pied is found on the locus "Pa+", and the clearflight pied is found on the locus "Pc+"

 

If they were all different alleles of the same gene, there would only be one locus name for all of them.

 

So, what this means in regards to my confusion about the combination pieds, is that you can have all three pieds in one bird. (And to answer my own question about combining all three pieds, well that would be a clearflight pied that was masking dominant pied.)

I understood that much. It also answers (or I think it does) my question about the pied from my forum with two différent eyes.