Hi all, I have this baby coming it's hatched on th 16rd of July so about 5 weeks.

He is out of a good nest that to date i have never got a mop but I really think this is one.

It is strange because there is another chick in the nest that was hatched 23rd July , so week youner and is all feathered up.

This chcick seems to be very slow getting feathers as look can see in the photo he still has down showing and his head is not feathered

probable yet.

 

 

Here is a photo of the wing, see all the extra flights and the end end a funny point.

 

The tail area and look how messy it is

 

Here is the other one that is a week younger all feathered

 

What do you guys think a mop?

Hi Splat, yep it looks like a mop to me as the tail shafts appear too short for a chick that age. Cheers Clearwing

Hi CW, rats I knew it. I thought the other wow what a head, and I nice big bird and then I notice it was slow growing its feathers ect and today it hit me urrgggg MOP. :sad:

This baby is from my violet and Howes sky blue hen,

i know cw is been breding for years and i have not

but i had a baby like that last round he was not a mop but very slow growing in his feathers he did end up not eatting himself for quit a while mum feed him till i said thats it your 8 weeks

he lived a month then dided he did grow his feathers in but took the whole month he was not a mop but not normal either

i think that birds the same as hes got a tail feather just same size as other tail feathers

i bet he feathers normally as a mop would be more messy

hes not right but i dont think a mop

Gb I am very sure that it is a mop, whings are as messy as and tail is short. Seems to double or triple the flights and secondarys plus look at the tail area a real mess.

It is about 5 weeks when mop starts to show something wrong and this chick is 5 weeks to the day. Very dissappointing but that's nature

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop :sad: But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ? :rip:

What is a MOP? excuse my naiveness.

What is a MOP? excuse my naiveness.

There is a couple of names for them, mops, feather dusters but I think the proper name is Chrysanthemum but actually I don't really know what the proper name.But the poor birds grow feathers out wards and long very long that is probably why this little fella is taking so long to devolop because all it's energy is going into growing abnormally long feathers.here is one link bad picture thoughhttp://www.bctas.info/results1.html

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

Thanks Kaz yes I have been watching , thinking wow another good bird, yep this is great, then today it dawned on rats. Like he has this massive head and as you can see it is not feather that is making his head big. Not yet anyway

Ah, Feather duster. Yup, poor thing. They spend all their time eating to sustain themselves.

Yes that is rigth and when they in the nest they are quite big birds as the parents are pumping the food in as they are always scrawking for more but the this little fella doesn't. hmmm

Anyway once they come out of the nest the loose weight very quickly becaus ethey can't keep up with what they need.

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

 

Well, thats very good to know mate :hmm: Its just that we hear it said so often in show breeding circles

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

 

Well, thats very good to know mate :hmm: Its just that we hear it said so often in show breeding circles

 

No worries Kaz.

 

Some things just make sense if you breed the lesser varities like Clearwings. I had mops popping out of one of the Clearwing family lines with regual frequency. These birds although getting better were not 'on their way' in the sense of being like the less rare side of things. It is genetic and I kept a track of it and could always predict in which nests the likelyhood of producing a mop was. Usually the chance was a 1 in 4 of producing one, being careful not to pair two FD gene carrying birds together. Being a recessive gene it is hard to illiminate from the stud but over time not impossible.

Edited August 21, 201014 yr by RIPbudgies

We'll never be rid of mops. At the MOST you will only ever get odds of 1/4 since it is recessive and mops usually dont survive to breed - meaning we only ever breed with birds split for mop. As with any splits, you get 25% babies who dont get it, 50% who become carriers, and 25% who get a double dose of the mop gene and are visual mops.

 

I was watching a DVD interview series (from the late 1980s') with Roy Aplin, E.D Lane, Sadler, Harry Bryan and Joe Mannes and one of the breeders mentioned this fact and said "I can accept losing 1/4 chicks in each nest. 3 chicks on the perch is fine by me so I'll never worry about breeding mops" (not exact quote but you get the gist of it).

 

I have also read that mops showed up long before we got the feather length, or the size/width or buffness of the birds today. I think in order to psychologically minimise the problem, breeders of mops have justified it by saying it means they are nearing the maximum feather quality or bird quality. Well, keep telling yourself that Whatever helps you accept losses is fine by me!

Edited August 21, 201014 yr by Dean_NZ

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

Interesting but the parents of this bird are not related. the hen has been brought in for an out cross.

Edited August 21, 201014 yr by splat

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

Interesting but the parents of this bird are not related. the hen has been brought in for an out cross.

I dont think anyone was actually saying about them being related.

O know that Kaz But RIP said something to do with them being related

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

I am sure it is coming from the hen because the cock I know his background and have never got a mop from either of his parents and most my stock are from his parents.

the hen is an outcross and I don't know much about her other than she is well bred.

I don't really care as Dean says one mop to a large number of goods birds. Can't have it all

It could still be in the cock to, as anything recessive just needs to meet up with another bird carrying the same recessive trait. Recessive traits can hide for generations sometimes and only come out when the partner also carries the same gene. Greywing and dilute works a bit that way too.

It will be cock and hen. I dont doubt that the mop gene is well spread, especially throughout the birds from top breeders. The thing about recessive mutations is they can go unseen for generations and then crop up when you start breeding within a line or family and happen to cross two splits and produce a double factor.

 

The more I read of it the less it worries me - especially what was said about the highest 'odds' of getting such a chick is 1/4 or 25%. Thats not to say you wont get a nest full of mops, but then you could also have the next round from the same parents with no mops. Just the odds of the game.

Ist round 3 chicks no mop, second round 3 chicks 1 mop.

That really nice violet cinn opaline hen is from the 1st and there were 2 violet hens, all nice birds.

This time I got a cobalt opaline hen, cobalt cock, and this fellow cobalt cock, well actually I think sky violet.

The hen doesn't raise her young because she plucks the **** out of them. So I have her down again with my white DF sp but all clear eggs.

O know that Kaz But RIP said something to do with them being related

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

I am sure it is coming from the hen because the cock I know his background and have never got a mop from either of his parents and most my stock are from his parents.

the hen is an outcross and I don't know much about her other than she is well bred.

I don't really care as Dean says one mop to a large number of goods birds. Can't have it all

 

I think you better read what is written a bit more carefully.

 

I never said the birds were related. I was trying to say that it is the relatedness (inbreeding) that generally gives rise to more individuals being present within the show system where as in colony systems there is not same level of inbreeding and therefore the incidence of one occuring is rarer. Birds can be completely unrelated and still produce a mop.

O know that Kaz But RIP said something to do with them being related

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

I am sure it is coming from the hen because the cock I know his background and have never got a mop from either of his parents and most my stock are from his parents.

the hen is an outcross and I don't know much about her other than she is well bred.

I don't really care as Dean says one mop to a large number of goods birds. Can't have it all

 

I think you better read what is written a bit more carefully.

 

I never said the birds were related. I was trying to say that it is the relatedness (inbreeding) that generally gives rise to more individuals being present within the show system where as in colony systems there is not same level of inbreeding and therefore the incidence of one occuring is rarer. Birds can be completely unrelated and still produce a mop.

 

I know , but I was just saying they were related. alls good

It seems, by the tail that it is a mop But everything else looks like a great looking well feathered bird. A pity it is a mop, but isnt it a sign you are getting there with your birds ?

 

Sorry Kaz but the last part of your statement is one of those old wive's tales.

 

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

 

Yar I know mops are recessive and all but I too have been told over and over that mops mean you are getting somewhere with your breeding. Thank god that's wrong as I still after 10 years have not bred one single mop, not one...... so I was always thinking, what the *** am I doing wrong. Really it just means I'm not doubling up on the feather duster gene I guess!

Yar I know mops are recessive and all but I too have been told over and over that mops mean you are getting somewhere with your breeding. Thank god that's wrong as I still after 10 years have not bred one single mop, not one...... so I was always thinking, what the *** am I doing wrong. Really it just means I'm not doubling up on the feather duster gene I guess!

 

I was thinking the same thing

O know that Kaz But RIP said something to do with them being related

Mops appear in show stock and pet stock alike. It is more prevalent in show stock due to inbreeding and regular supervision. In colony bred pet stock the inbreeding occurs but not in the same as as show stock and when a mop appears it is usually not detected unless the owner checks the boxes regularly, when the young fledge they either learn quickly to fend for themselves or die. It is not uncommon for bodies to be hidden in the aviary litter and go undetected.

 

I am sure it is coming from the hen because the cock I know his background and have never got a mop from either of his parents and most my stock are from his parents.

the hen is an outcross and I don't know much about her other than she is well bred.

I don't really care as Dean says one mop to a large number of goods birds. Can't have it all

 

I think you better read what is written a bit more carefully.

 

I never said the birds were related. I was trying to say that it is the relatedness (inbreeding) that generally gives rise to more individuals being present within the show system where as in colony systems there is not same level of inbreeding and therefore the incidence of one occuring is rarer. Birds can be completely unrelated and still produce a mop.

 

I know , but I was just saying they were related. alls good

 

okay OoPs unrelated. Well I know these will not be going back together.