Finnie - get a crop needle and learn how to crop feed, pronto! It's simple and if you are going to breed budgies, one of the most effective ways to help save budgies in many different situations.

 

Good luck with them and I hope Finnie (the budgie) is okay too.

 

So long as you use the right size crop needle and great care you can crop feed any size baby.

Edited September 27, 201014 yr by nubbly5

okay, I will order a crop needle, and when it comes, maybe I will be able to get up the nerve to learn to use it. I'm pretty sure they are available from the company that I get my rings from. I looked up some videos on YouTube, and though the guy makes it look easy, I'm still afraid. I was trying to practice the way he said to hold the bird, and I just couldn't get my thumb under the mandible. Maybe I will be able to find someone around here who can show me in person.

 

But I have good news! I just went down to feed the chicks, and they all had full crops! I had decided to put Patrick, who is a really nice bird, and the only one with chick experience, into the cage with Donovan and the babies. Now, I don't know who did the feeding, but I don't really care. As long as both males are happy together, I say "Whatever works!" Patrick is very easy going, so I'm sure there will be no fighting, and I doubt he would listen to hungry chicks crying and just sit there staring at them, like Donovan.

 

Also, earlier I saw one of the chicks eating millet!

 

Finnie still looks only so-so, but she is eating some, and moving around a little. And I have seen her working at the doors of the cage, as if trying to find a way out. So maybe she just needs some rest and some building up.

Chick #3 looks like he/she loves to nibble your hand Finnie. They are all so cute.

What is the youngest age we can crop needle a chick Squeak? It's something I need to learn to do also.

 

The youngest I have done is about 3 weeks. Maybe you could do it at two, I dont know about birds anatomy enough to say sorry.

 

 

Crop needles come in all sizes and some are metal where it joins the syringe and plastic tubing from there ....they have no bulbous end so can be used better on younger chicks.

I have crop fed some at one week of age.

I am so glad to hear your babies are being fed! That takes the stress out of things. I hold the chick on my tummy (just under my *****) comfortably with my index finger on top of the head, my middle finger about the left cheek - near the beak and the thumb on the right cheek. Keep this hold gentle but firm. I tease the chick with the end of the needle to open the beak, then slide the needle over the tongue directly toward my thumb, so I can feel it in the cheek, against my thumb. I then slide it down the gullet (?). I have been told you can feel when it hits the bottom of the crop and I am sure I have done that but I dont aim to slide it all the way down. I have found if you get it past the throat and keep to the thumb side, you are in the right area to push the food directly into the crop. I hope this explanation helps

I am happy for other experienced crop feeders to critique or add to my explanation

Thank you, Sunnie.

 

How things stand this morning: Update for 9/28/10 in Red

 

Aveline:

 

That sixth chick did make it's appearance overnight, and it has food in its crop, so that is good. Only two more eggs to go. (Oh, and #6 is another red eyed ino hen.)

 

The iffy chick still looks iffy. It didn't appear to have any more food than it did last night. Its crop looks saggy. So I mixed up some hand rearing formula, and using a small pipette, I worked on getting some food into it. I could see it sucking and swallowing, there is at least some food inside, so I am hopeful, but it's crop is now also full of air. Either I squeezed the pipette incorrectly, or the chick just swallowed air on its own. Anyway, it was quite an ordeal, and I am a more messy feeder than Aveline. I had to do a lot of face-wiping of the chick. At least all the struggle caused its skin to pink up some. Hopefully I have given it enough to make it more lively, and then get more of Aveline's attention. Found the iffy chick dead this morning. The rest are fed, but just barely. They are all pretty small for their ages. So far none has lived past the 9 day old mark, but I can still hope.

 

Teagan:

 

All of her chicks look clean and fed. Teagan had a chick hatch yesterday morning, and it wasn't fed by bedtime, so I fed it some. But by this morning it was empty again. I tried to feed it more, but I think I may have choked it. I thought it was going to die. As of bedtime, it was still alive, but not looking good, and empty crop again. Teagan seems to be feeding her two oldest to the full, but neglecting her other 3. The middle chick looks okay, but both of the two youngest look funny. Kind of stiff and sluggish. One is barely fed, and one is not fed. I don't know if she's not feeding them on purpose, or if they just get lost under the two piggies. I even took the two piggies out for a while this morning, hoping she would then feed the little ones, but nope.

 

Finnie:

 

Donovan doesn't seem to go inside the box. So the chicks are not being fed. I tried to hand feed one, but I made a real botch of the job. One of the reasons for my logging on this morning is to search and learn better how to hand feed. Getting food into those chicks is my top priority for today. Finnie seems to be holding her own in the hospital cage. I didn't think she'd make it through the night, but she looks more stable to me this morning. What a difference a day makes. Finnie is looking better, and Donovan (or maybe Patrick) is keeping the chicks plump now. )

 

I have gone from thinking this breeding stuff is a piece of cake, to being worried about a lot of things. I knew stuff was likely to come up, I just thought I'd be better at handling it. And this has been such an un-fun couple of days, that I decided to do a happy picture taking session, to make me feel better. So here are some photos:

 

 

Chick #4 I think it's going to be a mauve normal, and I wish it were a boy, but I think it is a girl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gotta love that full crop!

 

 

(Have skipped chick #3, because I will probably keep her, and thus am not hand taming her. Will have to do a photo shoot of her another day.)

 

Chick #2

Her color started out looking violet, to me, but now I am wondering if she could be mauve (diluted, though, by the greywing-type gene)

 

Again, wish she were a boy, I have a customer that wants a hand tamed blue boy, but I'm pretty sure this one's a girl too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Chick #1, who is such a lovely opaline, that she is kind of my favorite But still, not to keep. To hand tame for someone else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gorgeous happy snaps

They are beautiful! I like the last picture especially! Budgie of the month contestant?

They're so pretty Finnie.

Bad news again this morning.

 

Chicks #4 and 5 in Aveline's nest are dying. They looked dead, but were still breathing. They are 7 and 6 days old. The two younger chicks look fine, and there is still one egg. For some reason, Aveline seems unable to keep her chicks going once they hit the 1 week mark. I am in despair, I don't know what to do! If it were a disease, wouldn't they all die at once, not just as they reach a certain age? I'm inclined to think she can't feed enough to sustain them at a larger size. But I know Aidan is in there helping her, a lot. His face is messy from feeding.

 

But there is more bad news. Teagan had 5 chicks at bedtime last night, and this morning, only two are left alive. In her case, it's the youngest that are dying. (And I only found two dead bodies, the youngest one is missing. I dug around in the shavings, and I checked parents for signs of blood, but nothing. ????) I suspect that Teagan only gave attention to the two oldest, who are growing well, and always fed full. BUT, could this nest have a disease, since it wiped out 3 at once? There are still 2 eggs in this nest, but they are going to have a HUGE size difference, I fear for them, as well.

 

I spent some time this morning searching for posts on dying chicks, and it seems to happen a lot. A certain percentage seems to be considered normal, but the numbers I have dying are unusual. The consensus from what I have read so far is that there are hundreds of things than can prevent chicks from surviving, and it's really trial and error when you want to try to save them.

 

In one post, Clearwing mentioned administering psitavet to all the parents, when there are a lot of chicks dying. I am going to see if I can get ahold of some of that. I'm also going to clean out the nest boxes, and put in clean bedding to see if that helps. And I'm constantly trying to improve their diets. I am constantly giving them fresh water, so I don't think it's that. There are no mice, no insects (unless I find mites when I clean out the bedding, but it wouldn't be my first guess.) But can I really put this down to bad mothering?

Edited September 29, 201014 yr by Finnie

So sorry to hear your news Finnie. I dont have any answers I am afraid, I just wanted to say most of us have disasters and disapointments and would be sympathetic to your problems

Thank you, Sunnie, I appreciate that.

You must be terribly distraught over this. Obviously something has struck them down................I'd be using triple C, sulpha avs, or psittavet or doxyvet in the drinkers as soon as you can.

Edited September 30, 201014 yr by KAZ

You must be terribly distraught over this. Obviously something has struck them down................I'd be using triple C, sulpha avs, or psittavet or doxyvet in the drinkers as soon as you can.

 

 

I'm actually just about to go over to the website where I can place an order for some of these things. You and GB both said Triple C, so I am going to choose that over the others, unless you think I should do both Triple C AND doxycycline hydrochloride.

You must be terribly distraught over this. Obviously something has struck them down................I'd be using triple C, sulpha avs, or psittavet or doxyvet in the drinkers as soon as you can.

 

 

I'm actually just about to go over to the website where I can place an order for some of these things. You and GB both said Triple C, so I am going to choose that over the others, unless you think I should do both Triple C AND doxycycline hydrochloride.

i think you need to just hold off if you want to medicate use the tripple c but mate i know whats wrong i just need to talk to you

what needs saying i need time to type out

im going to get onto it tomorrow morn as its 117 here in vic i see where you are now so that helps to

so finnie

can i say this

feed carrots dayly

silver beet dayly

orange or Mandarin dayl

and as for seed put in to cages big flat trays about 2 and half cm just for now

fill with seed and then put a bowl with seed in that

one cup per chick per pair and one cup each mum n dad

clean water daily washing out containers not with soppy water but a clean bottle brush daily

hot boiled water

just for now

add triple c if you want but i dont think that is a illness

also are these first time mums n dads ???

Picture update of good chicks

 

Donovan x Finnie:

 

Chick #1 (31 days old)

 

 

 

 

 

Chick #2, not in todays photos

 

Chick #3, (28 days old) Plum eyed when born, so assuming it's a cinnamon female, although it is also greywing or dilute, so no cinnamon shows

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chick #4 not pictured

 

 

 

Kevin x Teagan:

 

Chick #1 (14 days old)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chick #2 (11 days old)

 

 

 

 

This chick was not big enough to ring until it was 9 days old.

Gorgeous chicks from Donovan and Finnie! The others are all beautiful as well!

Donovan x Finnie:

 

Chick #1 (31 days old)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gorgeous chicks and photos Finnie. You always have fantastic photos

 

Chick #1 from Donovan and Finnie has a beautifully clear mantle! I love this chick

Thank you Squeak and Amy!

 

Gorgeous chicks and photos Finnie. You always have fantastic photos

 

Chick #1 from Donovan and Finnie has a beautifully clear mantle! I love this chick

 

 

Thank you for the compliment on my photos- I must be improving a bit, because historically my photos have been pretty lousy!

That opaline chick is my favorite! I won't be too sad if she never sells....

Here are pics of one of the chicks missing from yesterdays photos. (Would have got pics of both, but camera battery died.)

 

Donovan and Finnie Chick #4

Normal Mauve girl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The mark on this tail concerns me. I compared it to the photos of the feather quill mites found HERE

 

They don't look quite the same, but maybe this chick has a less advanced case?

Finnie I'm sorry to hear of the drama's you are having. Budgie breeding can be so heart breaking sometimes. Triple C or doxycycline sounds like a good bet at the moment.

 

The marks on the tail feathers are not uncommon and caused by growth "shocks", minor setbacks or knocks to the growing feather at quill stage which cause weakness lines in the main tail feathers - at least that is what I've been told previously. From what I understand - nothing to be too concerned about.

 

Some possibilities to check when lots of chicks are dying:

 

1) Psittacosis - kills chicks of various ages and often adults have respiratory symptoms

2) French Moult (kills chicks around 10 day age)

3) Food poisonings - mild toxins don't affect adults too much (or just mildly) but can affect babies causing many deaths - check sprouted seed if you use this as it can go off quickly, also were some cases over here of broccoli available over here that had been sprayed with a product that severely affected birds causing deaths.

 

In any case I wish you all the best of luck for getting on top of it!

 

Edit: Just found this on detecting feather quill mite.

 

II. Detection of Quill Mites

 

Due to the fact that quill mites are predominantly prevalent in the inner feather quill and the inner feather shaft (with exception of the time of emigration and new settlement), detection is restricted mainly to the examination of the quill and shaft. In case of heavy infestation the large and the little coverts should also be examined. The detection of quill mites on live birds is therefore hardly likely to be successful, unless one is able to position the feather under the microscope in such a way that the burrow-holes of some mite species can be seen on the dorsal side of the external vane at the base of the feather. Usually one is dependant on moulted or broken off feathers. The feathers of birds with damaged plumage are to removed in accordance with animal protection conditions, i.e. (with) large birds under anaesthetic.Quill bits of broken off feathers still present in the skin should also be removed. When dead birds or plucked feathers are to be examined for quill mites all flight feathers should be examined. The reason is that with lesser abundance, only individual feathers are affected. In one instance it was only possible to detect quill mites on an examined hedge-sparrow (Prunella modularis) on the left wing in the 1. secondary and on the right wing in the 4. secondary. On the other hand a song-thrush (Turdus philomelos) was affected from the 1. secondary right through to the 18. secondary. A house-sparrow (Passer domesticus) and a greenfinch even had an infestation of the large and small coverts. Our findings have shown that the feather quills were always structured, i.e. filled with skinning rests (exuvien), excrement, eggs, dead and live mites as well as their developing stages. The content is light yellowish. Occasionally nodule structures can be seen on the outer surface of the quill. No evidence could be found to support the sporadically expressed opinion in text books that affected quills are discoloured black-reddish by blood clots. The quills of a blackbird (Turdus merula) were darkly discoloured, therefore it was very difficult to recognize the structures. Unaffected feathers are more or less translucent. The so-called “feather soul” can be seen through the quill as a fine horn membrane, especially in smaller birds.The quills to be examined must be dissected carefully with a scalpel under a microscope. The mites are to be removed with a dissecting needle. The preparation as well as the determination of the mites are done in the same manner as is described for feather mites.

Edited October 6, 201014 yr by nubbly5

Haven't updated in a while. I was all set to add pictures of the two chicks I'm hand raising, but the FORUM WAS OFFLINE!!!

 

Now that it's back on, these photos are outdated. I'll have to get some newer ones.

 

The hand raised chicks are the youngest one each, from two different nests. The older siblings were dying off one by one, and I finally pulled these last ones before it was too late. I thought they would die of some disease or defect, but they are going strong. It's been two weeks now, and they have down, leg rings, and some yellow feathers coming in on their tails. I guess the fault really was with the mothers lack of feeding, because feeding is all I've really done for them.

 

These pics are from a week ago:

 

 

 

The plum eyed chick is from Kevin and Teagan. It's eyes have turned black, but at least I got the leg ring on while I could still tell it apart from the other chick.

 

 

 

(It is 12 days old in these photos.)

 

 

 

 

 

This is Aidan and Aveline's black eyed son. (If it was a girl, it would have been a lutino.) He was 11 days old here.

 

Before the feed:

 

 

 

During the feed:

 

Little Piggy after feeding:

 

 

 

 

 

Finnie's chicks are fledged, and I think they're eating okay. The youngest one seemed to get pretty lightweight after it came out of the box, but I have seen him eating, so fingers crossed they all eat and grow well. Soon they will be ready to go to new homes.

 

And Kevin and Teagan's two that they were raising themselves have been growing nicely. I hear the occasional sneeze, though, so I am keeping a watch on that. Also, I'll have to see how they get on, now that I've had to take both of their parents away. They are over 3 weeks old, so I think I can hand feed them the rest of the way, if I have to. I have their "uncle" Patrick in with them, because he seems to take on the feeding of other people's chicks pretty well.

 

Oh, and it appears that Teagan is split to yellow face mutant 2, as both of those chicks are. And Kevin is split to opaline and greywing, because both chicks are also opaline greywing males.

 

Chick #1:

 

 

Chick#2:

 

The chicks I am hand raising are growing, and getting feathers.

I got some pictures today, so I thought I'd share:

 

Aidan and Aveline's chick. For now I call him BR29 (B for black eyed, R for the ring is on the right leg, and 29 because he is the 29th chick I've ever rung.) Someday I will give these chicks names.

 

This is the first time I've had a green series chick where the pins came in blue, instead of green. Maybe that's normal? I really haven't had very many green chicks, to date.

 

 

 

(His pin feathers remind me of Alfalfa, from the Little Rascals. )

 

 

Here is Kevin and Teagan's chick #6, but I call her PL28!

 

 

 

 

(I'm thinking light green cinnamon spangle.)

 

 

 

 

 

Usually at this stage, I am looking for colored wing and mantle feathers, to get an early guess if it's opaline. I know you can usually tell by white down, but as I breed an inordinant amount of greywings, which also have white down, I've rarely come across a grey down chick.

 

I'd like this one to be opaline, so I guess I just try to see green there.

 

 

 

I've noticed that on the really young ones, the ceres can look ambiguous. (I get my early guesses wrong a lot!)

This supposed hen usually looks like a boy to me, and the non-lutino cock always looks like a girl, in my opinion.

I imagine that eventually they will look like they are supposed to!

The chicks are looking great Finnie, really good photo's. These guys should be a good reward for all the problems you've been having..

 

I'll let others comment on type and sex, as I'm useless when they are young also. I'll just say they are very cute.. :D

Great Photo's! They are adorable.

Edited October 22, 201014 yr by JimmyBanks

Your chicks look gorgeous Finnie And you are doing a fantastic job hand raising those two little ones.