I like the spangle cock, too. And the dilute cock, I don't know what his finer points might be, but he sure looks BIG to me!

Looks like he can be fixed but may need an avian vet to attend to it

My birds didnt get that chance........they had other issues as well.

 

Sorry to all the birdie lovers out there but several hundred dollars for a vet bill and at least a 400km round trip to get there means that this little guy will have to take his chances with my ministrations. If it is what you suspect then surgery on what amounts to a $100 or so budgie is out of the question.

 

As it is he seems pretty happy so maybe he'll cope just fine with his crop sagging between his knees (god knows mine is just about there too!).

 

 

Ha ha so is mine But seriously I am with you on this Nubbly. Some I believe are worth the trip and vet $$$$ but the marjority of mine take their chance with ministrations too. And then I let nature take it's course. ( 9 times out 10 they pull through).

But the problem here even if I want to go to the vet sometimes I have to waite a fortnight to see him, He is only on once a week (Mondays). Last time I rang he was a away for 2 weeks, when birds are they can't wait that long so I have to intervene and try my best.

His finer points are that he has nice feather is a large boy AND he is dilute so when you breed him to clearwings all the chicks will be visually clearwing split for dilute. The cheats way of improving clearwings! They also have less dark wing modifiers so generally affect wing markings less than normal outcrosses. The only issue is that over time and with constant use you can also dilute the body colour of clearwings bred from them.

 

Yep, I've not spent any money at a vets on one single bird actually - that's not a brag by the way, it's just more of a flock mentality come from working in production animal systems. I've spent money on a FLOCK diagnosis but not to save one single bird no matter how expensive or valuable it might be in my program. MAINLY because I'm of the opinion that, by letting the birds select themselves out to some degree, that I retain a flock of birds that have robust healthy immune systems (as much as I can affect that). BUT I will intervene in a mass disease outbreak as some of the issues stem around intensive livestock raising conditions imposed on the birds by us. You should see those budgies out in the wild. They would rarely if ever come in contact with their own or other budgies poo's, they fly for miles and roost in trees so spread apart. 2 or 4 in a tree and they flit around all over the place....... And I'd rather not lose quantities of my budgies all at the same time, it kinda puts a big dent in your breeding program.

Edited September 3, 201014 yr by nubbly5

The only issue is that over time and with constant use you can also dilute the body colour of clearwings bred from them.

 

So before that happened, you would occasionally use a normal to improve your clearwings, and their body color?

 

Also, when using the dilutes, does that get you a nice line of dilutes going at the same time, since with the /dilutes, you will sometimes get a nice visual dilute pop out?

The only issue is that over time and with constant use you can also dilute the body colour of clearwings bred from them.

 

So before that happened, you would occasionally use a normal to improve your clearwings, and their body color?

 

Also, when using the dilutes, does that get you a nice line of dilutes going at the same time, since with the /dilutes, you will sometimes get a nice visual dilute pop out?

 

Well I'm not a clearwing expert by any stretch of the imagination but yes plus ensuring that you don't use clearwings with a lesser body colour when you pair back the clearwings. It's really evident in some of the violets actually - just as a random comment .

 

Yes you will have the odd dilute pop out if you pair clearwing/dilute to clearwing/dilute (25% chance) BUT the unfortunate thing is that most of them are of such poor quality that it's not really worth putting them back into the clearwings (unless they are an improvement on what you've already got) and they are not that much use for other varieties (except maybe BES) as the clearwing modifies the dilute so you get a kind of dliute clearwing (it's actually a dilute but has the wing modifiers of the clearwing) so good for BES which require no markings so long as they are of better quality.

 

Why oh why did I take these things on is beyond me - but the are PRETTY!

Yes you will have the odd dilute pop out if you pair clearwing/dilute to clearwing/dilute (25% chance) BUT the unfortunate thing is that most of them are of such poor quality that it's not really worth putting them back into the clearwings (unless they are an improvement on what you've already got) and they are not that much use for other varieties (except maybe BES) as the clearwing modifies the dilute so you get a kind of dliute clearwing (it's actually a dilute but has the wing modifiers of the clearwing) so good for BES which require no markings so long as they are of better quality.

 

Well that is too bad, cuz it sounds like you would be, in a way, ruining your dilutes. If you take good ones to get the splits, and then further down they pop back out with that modifier, and they aren't showable.

Yes you will have the odd dilute pop out if you pair clearwing/dilute to clearwing/dilute (25% chance) BUT the unfortunate thing is that most of them are of such poor quality that it's not really worth putting them back into the clearwings (unless they are an improvement on what you've already got) and they are not that much use for other varieties (except maybe BES) as the clearwing modifies the dilute so you get a kind of dliute clearwing (it's actually a dilute but has the wing modifiers of the clearwing) so good for BES which require no markings so long as they are of better quality.

 

Well that is too bad, cuz it sounds like you would be, in a way, ruining your dilutes. If you take good ones to get the splits, and then further down they pop back out with that modifier, and they aren't showable.

 

Well dilutes are not currently a big show variety. They are not included as a national variety and only lumped into a combined AOSV (any other standard variety) class along with saddlebacks, ummm and a couple of other varieties (bad for a judge aren't I! my standards in the car and I can't be fagged getting it!). I'm not sure what the consensus would be if clearwing modified dilutes get onto the show bench, might be good...... less markings and all that...... not sure really.

 

Things are changing here though and there are strong noises that dilutes will be a national variety soon so maybe they will be elevated from a tool used to improve greywings and clearwings to a competitive variety in their own right.

 

Probably the worse problem is that the clearwings will also modify their size and feather making them less able to compete against dilutes that pop out of a normals breeding program.

Edited September 3, 201014 yr by nubbly5

I guess you can never get very far away from those normals, can you? Always needed to bring the other varieties back to snuff!

Just got back from ANOTHER week away with work and have done a quick count up of some 20+ eggs with some showing fertility already YAAAAAAHOOOOOO!

 

 

This pair has laid 4 eggs. The first was porous and broken and so was discarded but they have since laid another 3 with the first of these showing fertility. I'm soooooo excited as these are a very nice pair of dark factor birds and I really am hoping for some olives and dark greens - I don't mind at all about the opaline as I hope to use the babies in my fallow breeding. Spangles are neither here nor there but I'll take whatever I get very happily!

 

This pair has 3 eggs. No fertility signs yet but might be a touch early if the first egg is infertile. But I'm soooooooo pleased and very hopeful for this pairing.

 

Oh and all changed pairs are now exploring their nest boxes.

Edited September 10, 201014 yr by nubbly5

Oh so exciting, hope all goes well Nubbly and there are lost of little pinkies soon

Dammit! The violet fallow hen I got from the last brasea auction is egg bound........ What's with these fallows!!!!!!!!! She is now oiled to the max and in the heat box hoping she passes the egg okay.

 

Otherwise, more eggs and all pairs nesting etc.

Liquid calcium supplied for muscle contractions I assume? Fingers crossed she pics up

salt direct to vent starts instant contractions i do it with results as it contracts sprinkle more salt in so it gets sucked inside so to speak works well i find

Edited September 12, 201014 yr by GenericBlue

I am having trouble with viewing pictures, so have missed out on seeing your lovely birds (some problem my end I believe), but even so, your thread is really informative. I particularly eat up all you have to say about Fallows, being a novice Fallow breeder. I have been told (and then heard it argued against) that putting split to split gives you your best birds, apart from the obvious wastage. I realise that everything not visual from a nest like this has to be test mated to see if it is a split, but am willing to give this a go, albeit this year, I only have one split to split pair down and so far, they are the only pair doing not much. What are your thoughts on this?

Dammit! Hen died! That's $400 and no hen!!!!!!! She passed the egg but had obviously prolapsed overnight.

 

Sunnie, I've has soooooooo much trouble breeding fallows that I can't speak from experience other than to say that my best fallow HAS come from a split to split pairing. But I've really not bred too many totally to be able to say for sure. But *** the wastage is high.

I am real sorry to hear you lost your hen Nubbly Was there any eggs prior to this one that could be saved ?

I am real sorry to hear you lost your hen Nubbly Was there any eggs prior to this one that could be saved ?

 

Nope!

Sorry to hear

Sorry Nubbly, that is a pain when so much money is invovled get nothing. Wouldn't be so bad if you got a couple of fertile eggs.

Sorry to hear about your hen Nubbly

The grey I purchased from our local written auction (a Carl Alder bird) she is heavily flecked (the reason Carl quit her I assume) but is just too nice not to use only just a slightly shortish mask and that flecking of course will make me a bit careful on who I choose for her.

 

 

i LOVE the grey -veryvery pretty

 

reason for edit: fixed quote tags

Edited September 13, 201014 yr by Finnie

Sorry to hear of your loss Nubbly, how sad and disappointing . Thank you for responding to my question

52 eggs, 13 positively fertile, 1 double yolker (write off), 3-4 eggs definitely infertile (first eggs). One full nest of 5 so far looking like it may well be infertile but good fertility generally throughout.

the way I understand it is .............if the air sac ruptures the air is displaced in the body cavity. This can happen by injury or trauma ( he may have fallen while mating ? maybe ? ). Mine had other issues going on also and they didnt last the distance.

No this is not it. It's definitely seed in the crop not air. I can feel the actual seeds and move them around. It's hard to explain but it's maybe more like a herniated something..... allowing the crop to travel down the neck..... that's the only way I can explain it.

If the airsac is ruptured then the crop is allowed to drop into that space.

 

Ahh okay. It's probably that then.

 

Did you manage to treat your birds and how. There is no accumulated air to release but the crop is well and truely displaced. He does seem pretty happy in himself though so I'm not sure what else I could be doing to help him.

 

Just digressing your thread here.

 

The crop can become pendulous if the bird is a 'croaker'. Horse people will know this term as 'wind sucking'. Birds who do it can be heard making a croaking like sound as they suck in air. Over time the crop walls are stretched far beyound their capacity and the elasticity is compromised. If the crop can no longer holds its shape it will droop. Pigeon breeds known as pouters and croppers are based on the ability of the birds to suck in air.

 

The Clavicular air sacs lie behind the crop. If an air sac was ruptured the body cavity would fill with air. I have had one or two birds over the years with air sac ruptures and these will self heal if the rupture is not too severe. The pain is removing the air in the body cavity until the repair is realised for it if it is not the pressure caused by the air will press on organs and cause their failure, not to mention pain and uncomfortabilty to the bird.

the way I understand it is .............if the air sac ruptures the air is displaced in the body cavity. This can happen by injury or trauma ( he may have fallen while mating ? maybe ? ). Mine had other issues going on also and they didnt last the distance.

No this is not it. It's definitely seed in the crop not air. I can feel the actual seeds and move them around. It's hard to explain but it's maybe more like a herniated something..... allowing the crop to travel down the neck..... that's the only way I can explain it.

If the airsac is ruptured then the crop is allowed to drop into that space.

 

Ahh okay. It's probably that then.

 

Did you manage to treat your birds and how. There is no accumulated air to release but the crop is well and truely displaced. He does seem pretty happy in himself though so I'm not sure what else I could be doing to help him.

 

Just digressing your thread here.

 

The crop can become pendulous if the bird is a 'croaker'. Horse people will know this term as 'wind sucking'. Birds who do it can be heard making a croaking like sound as they suck in air. Over time the crop walls are stretched far beyound their capacity and the elasticity is compromised. If the crop can no longer holds its shape it will droop. Pigeon breeds known as pouters and croppers are based on the ability of the birds to suck in air.

 

The Clavicular air sacs lie behind the crop. If an air sac was ruptured the body cavity would fill with air. I have had one or two birds over the years with air sac ruptures and these will self heal if the rupture is not too severe. The pain is removing the air in the body cavity until the repair is realised for it if it is not the pressure caused by the air will press on organs and cause their failure, not to mention pain and uncomfortabilty to the bird.

 

 

 

Not a croaker. Very happy in the flight. Still pendulous crop can be felt low down on the chest of the bird.