Posted July 15, 201014 yr Some of you might remember the thread about what looked to be a 'partial crest' or 'crest bred' hen I had pop up in a nest about a year ago. Here is the thread: Crested Hen Well, shes just come out of a moult and showing good signs for breeding. I don't think she's ready quite yet, but she's definitely close and I've paired her up in a breeding cage with a cock I recently purchased who's now out of quarantine. I had a nightmare time buying new birds, everyone I went to trying to find normal blues either didnt have normal blues (or only a handful out of hundreds of birds and they were therefore not for sale) or didnt have blues anywhere near the quality I have bred from mediocre (at best) stock. Besides that, people were telling me left right and centre "you have to breed grey greens and light greens! They are the power birds! You'll never win best in show with a blue! It'll take forever to bring them up!". In spite of a LOT of travel and seraching I came away with the best birds I could find and I was not overly happy. I got a fantastic cobalt cock - only he's cinnamon opaline. Opaline I could handle, cinnamon opaline is gonna be a nightmare to breed out (Yes yes, i've already had people tell me dont worry about variety, if its a good bird its a good bird, but im TRYING to breed decent blues so I WILL breed out the cinnamon opaline eventually, using the best of his daughters and the best blue normals I can breed from other pairs). Here he is, he weighed in at 50 grams on arrival. I will put up photos of the other birds later. I got a sky blue cock split cinnamon and opaline (ugh) and a cobalt normal cock who was smaller than my own cocks but I got him for free and his is not split for ANYTHING thank goodness. Both of these cocks weighed in at about 44 grams. I got a hen that weighed in at 50 grams (grey green normal split blue) I Plan to put her to the cinnamon opaline cobalt cock above. and another hen who was an interesting pick.. she is a little tiny thing that came from two huge parents with long masks. She came out of the nest stunningly, but when she moulted looked almost exactly the same as she did before. She's 6 months old, weighs 41 grams and I took a risk on her based on the parents (shes a sky cinnamon hen, also looks too have had french moult to a small degree if you ask me, but I knew this and bought her anyway as I planned on fostering the eggs out to reliable moult free parents). I happened to stop by to visit a guy and view some cages that were on an auction site. Turns out he is going out of budgies, and after seeing the ones I had just bought, hearing how much difficulty I have been having finding good birds - we had a great discussion about how the local breeders treat the new ones and he said those same breeders are hounding him for first pick of his birds as soon as he finally decides to sell them and says to me "tell you what, you pick out whatever you want from my aviary - biggest, best, whatever - and i'll give them to you for less than what you paid for those sparrows" (Pointing to the smaller blues i just purchased hehehe). Well, I only had enough money on me to buy 1 pair, the best cock I could see and the best blue hen (he only had 3 blue hens and about 50 other green males/females). The cock is a light green opaline and the hen is a normal cobalt (she weighed in at a whopping 72 grams, but her crop was pack full from cocks feeding her - however she is quite large in the body, long too but not so great in the head/mask). Havent got pics of her yet.. He also gave me a disabled bird for free. Story behind this bird is that it was one of the best chicks he ever bred in 2006, but it got attacked by the hen who chewed parts of its wings off and he could never bring himself to kill it. He's been looking after it ever since and said he knew that I would look after it so i could have it free. I told him I might be able to AI it, although it was getting a bit old. He laughed and said if i could get anything off it then he would be amazed and so glad he kept it alive all that time. He's a HUGE boy even with only half his wings - weighed in at 57 grams. I couldnt get a picture of him blowing, but boy can he ever... Here is the cock and hen I paid for from this breeder - The light green opaline cock weighed in at 61 grams (boy is he long and wide and blows like its nobodies business!) I really love how well he tucks in his beak when he blows: I plan to put him with the 'crested' hen mentioned earlier. She isnt blowing here, she didnt like the show cage :hap: But I think she matches him well.
July 15, 201014 yr Author It was such a mission getting them :hap: I still feel like I paid more than I should have, but getting lucky and finding the breeder who was selling up and offering me his best birds made me feel sooo lucky/happy. It really picked me up and made me remember just how much I love breeding these birds! But yes, I am certainly VERY happy with a few of those birds and who knows, maybe those smaller but well bred birds will surprise me... Edited July 15, 201014 yr by Dean_NZ
July 15, 201014 yr That's really good Dean, hope yo breed some beauty's then you can send some over here :hap: I was off at the end of August to buy new birds but now I have decided not to as all my money is going towards my new breed room
July 15, 201014 yr Some nice pick ups Dean! What a stroke of luck with the breeder selling out - shame to hear it though....... And you never know how certain birds that don't look like much can really nick well with your own stock and breed on well.
July 15, 201014 yr Author nice birds the best one is that last light green opaline cock nice bird Yep, thats the kind of bird I would always buy if i could "pick any bird" in someones aviary lol. Usually the only ones for sale are the old dried up birds that have been thrashed in the breeding cage and are ready to kick the bucket, the birds that never bred/plucked/ate eggs etc, the smaller offspring of current year birds or the auction birds that go for more money alone than I could possibly spend on getting a few needed birds!! I was very happy to get him :hap:
July 16, 201014 yr I'm glade you had some luck there Dean. I'm going through the same deal as you with trying to get some nice birds. You've done well with those birds mate, good luck with breeding them
July 16, 201014 yr i think you will be suprized at what you get from the opaline cinne blue hes split to that right ? hes a beautiful bird also the cin hen id be pairing them up even if she was a slight molter you dont need to move eggs to another nest as the virus would get in egg before they hatch this just giving risk of your other birds picking virus up and passing it to their healthy chicks i know your not dim and know lots lots more than myself but i found that if you breed a bird that was fm aflickted but not shedding when breed which she should not be anyhow as wont be molting then the chicks are fine if you ivomectom chicks at two weeks before feathering on rump i found this has prevented the moult in chicks threatening to have the viris look about their feather quills in saying that this is in nests free from might or moths so i do believe theirs something in this method and im still looking into it but seems to have stopped a bad run i had two seasons ago so,.... regardless i think they are a good pairing and love or hate cinn hens are needed spec opaline ones great birds by way
July 16, 201014 yr Author i think you will be suprized at what you get from the opaline cinne blue hes split to that right ? hes a beautiful bird also the cin hen id be pairing them up even if she was a slight molter you dont need to move eggs to another nest as the virus would get in egg before they hatch this just giving risk of your other birds picking virus up and passing it to their healthy chicks i know your not dim and know lots lots more than myself but i found that if you breed a bird that was fm aflickted but not shedding when breed which she should not be anyhow as wont be molting then the chicks are fine if you ivomectom chicks at two weeks before feathering on rump i found this has prevented the moult in chicks threatening to have the viris look about their feather quills in saying that this is in nests free from might or moths so i do believe theirs something in this method and im still looking into it but seems to have stopped a bad run i had two seasons ago so,.... regardless i think they are a good pairing and love or hate cinn hens are needed spec opaline ones great birds by way Some good points there GB, I was actually thinking along the same lines. After posting about possibly fostering eggs, I remembered someone saying it was worth trying a drop of ivermectin on the preen gland of chicks at about 9-14 days old (not sure why that age but it seems to be what i remember?). I have 'heard' this worked, but its hard to say. Can only try right? I dont doubt for a second I already have the virus responsible for french moult throughout my aviary. I have been reading studies recently that mention that the virus is present in some 90% of most aviary birds, not just budgies. It displays differently depending on the species, but as far as budgies go it is the chicks and fledging birds that are exposed to it for the first time that suffer the most. Birds exposed when not moulting show little to no signs/effect from the virus. Whether they 'french moult' or not, all birds exposed once build up immunity for it and SOME go on to be active carriers/spreaders. Because it is a virus that stays with the bird (like how the coldsore virus stays with humans and flares up when we are run down) - they shed the virus during times of stress - breeding, change of ownership (new birds), summer heat, moulting etc. THIS is why newly purchased birds breed more moulters than others - because they are stressed from breeding, new social system, new feed system and possibly heat as well. I bought birds 2 years back, and had french moult in a couple of nests with those new birds. The next season (the 2009 season) I didnt buy ANY new birds and I had ZERO french moult. I went to a colour breeders meeting, and EVERYONE who bought in new birds had really bad french moult and a terrible breeding season with dead chicks or infertility. I bred more from 6 pairs than some did with 40 pairs (seriously). Another interesting thing I learned is that there are three distinct variations of the virus present in new zealand. So it is possible that while your birds may all have built up immunity and share a common strain, and the aviary you are buying some birds from also have birds who are immune to it and havent had it in their chicks - well it might be a different strain and when you introduce it to your aviary close to breeding time - suddenly BOOM you have french moult again. So based on that, Im (personally) inclined to disagree with all those who kill (cull) french moult babies or refuse to breed from them. Why? Its in all your birds anyway, whether you see them as moulters, runners or not. The fact that my french moult causing birds bred NO french moult the next season supports this idea for me as well. As far as cinnamon goes, im not really opposed to it to be honest. Here is my real problem - I somehow came to an idea that I really need to build up and focus on a good line of normals, preferably blues. With a good line of normals, you can then bring in one great spangle, or pied, or cinnamon or opaline or whatever you like, and then begin to create a seperate line or a seperate 'family' within the same line. But having a great line of normals is really a huge advantage when wanting to branch out and breed quality ANYTHING. It is possible to just buy quality cinnamons or opalines and start breeding them together, but for some reason I am very very focused on developing a good line of normals. Partly because they are SO RARE. Who would think normals are rare? Well they do seem to be just that. Cocks are all split for something, hens are all sex linked or any old combination (because most of their dads are split for something!). Good normals are rare as hens teeth and almost never for sale here. My main problem with the cinnamon hen is she is really small. HUGE parents, but small herself. So hoping to go back to the breeder and find out if any of the cocks I purchased are related (from the same line) and cross my fingers that the good breeding (putting aside her visual looks) turns out for my benefit with a good pairing decision based on 'genetic potential'. See how we go anyway. I always have my new light green opaline cock and my beautiful hens I bred myself
July 16, 201014 yr i think you will be suprized at what you get from the opaline cinne blue hes split to that right ? hes a beautiful bird also the cin hen id be pairing them up even if she was a slight molter you dont need to move eggs to another nest as the virus would get in egg before they hatch this just giving risk of your other birds picking virus up and passing it to their healthy chicks i know your not dim and know lots lots more than myself but i found that if you breed a bird that was fm aflickted but not shedding when breed which she should not be anyhow as wont be molting then the chicks are fine if you ivomectom chicks at two weeks before feathering on rump i found this has prevented the moult in chicks threatening to have the viris look about their feather quills in saying that this is in nests free from might or moths so i do believe theirs something in this method and im still looking into it but seems to have stopped a bad run i had two seasons ago so,.... regardless i think they are a good pairing and love or hate cinn hens are needed spec opaline ones great birds by way Some good points there GB, I was actually thinking along the same lines. After posting about possibly fostering eggs, I remembered someone saying it was worth trying a drop of ivermectin on the preen gland of chicks at about 9-14 days old (not sure why that age but it seems to be what i remember?). I have 'heard' this worked, but its hard to say. Can only try right? I dont doubt for a second I already have the virus responsible for french moult throughout my aviary. I have been reading studies recently that mention that the virus is present in some 90% of most aviary birds, not just budgies. It displays differently depending on the species, but as far as budgies go it is the chicks and fledging birds that are exposed to it for the first time that suffer the most. Birds exposed when not moulting show little to no signs/effect from the virus. Whether they 'french moult' or not, all birds exposed once build up immunity for it and SOME go on to be active carriers/spreaders. Because it is a virus that stays with the bird (like how the coldsore virus stays with humans and flares up when we are run down) - they shed the virus during times of stress - breeding, change of ownership (new birds), summer heat, moulting etc. THIS is why newly purchased birds breed more moulters than others - because they are stressed from breeding, new social system, new feed system and possibly heat as well. I bought birds 2 years back, and had french moult in a couple of nests with those new birds. The next season (the 2009 season) I didnt buy ANY new birds and I had ZERO french moult. I went to a colour breeders meeting, and EVERYONE who bought in new birds had really bad french moult and a terrible breeding season with dead chicks or infertility. I bred more from 6 pairs than some did with 40 pairs (seriously). Another interesting thing I learned is that there are three distinct variations of the virus present in new zealand. So it is possible that while your birds may all have built up immunity and share a common strain, and the aviary you are buying some birds from also have birds who are immune to it and havent had it in their chicks - well it might be a different strain and when you introduce it to your aviary close to breeding time - suddenly BOOM you have french moult again. So based on that, Im (personally) inclined to disagree with all those who kill (cull) french moult babies or refuse to breed from them. Why? Its in all your birds anyway, whether you see them as moulters, runners or not. The fact that my french moult causing birds bred NO french moult the next season supports this idea for me as well. As far as cinnamon goes, im not really opposed to it to be honest. Here is my real problem - I somehow came to an idea that I really need to build up and focus on a good line of normals, preferably blues. With a good line of normals, you can then bring in one great spangle, or pied, or cinnamon or opaline or whatever you like, and then begin to create a seperate line or a seperate 'family' within the same line. But having a great line of normals is really a huge advantage when wanting to branch out and breed quality ANYTHING. It is possible to just buy quality cinnamons or opalines and start breeding them together, but for some reason I am very very focused on developing a good line of normals. Partly because they are SO RARE. Who would think normals are rare? Well they do seem to be just that. Cocks are all split for something, hens are all sex linked or any old combination (because most of their dads are split for something!). Good normals are rare as hens teeth and almost never for sale here. My main problem with the cinnamon hen is she is really small. HUGE parents, but small herself. So hoping to go back to the breeder and find out if any of the cocks I purchased are related (from the same line) and cross my fingers that the good breeding (putting aside her visual looks) turns out for my benefit with a good pairing decision based on 'genetic potential'. See how we go anyway. I always have my new light green opaline cock and my beautiful hens I bred myself :party0011: i understand what your saying about the normals im breeding my own normals also im not so worryed about breeding normal cocks yet just get the hens first then if i can breed as you said a nice spangle not split to anything then i can start my own line of normals with him and all my hens if i can buy in one good spangle that is not split anything like op and cin even better to put to my own breed normal hens then i will get normals and spangles split .....nothing yea
August 22, 201014 yr Author Yes I paired 6 or so up a month ago. Had no end of bad luck. Mostly maiden hens and cocks, had broken eggs, eaten eggs, clear eggs, no eggs. Now the fertile eggs from the better pairs are starting to hatch and the hen isnt feeding them so i've lost the first 2 chicks from my most promising nest. FML.
August 22, 201014 yr After all the work you have put in, it hardly seems fair. Chin up buddy, I am sure your luck will change.
August 22, 201014 yr Yes I paired 6 or so up a month ago. Had no end of bad luck. Mostly maiden hens and cocks, had broken eggs, eaten eggs, clear eggs, no eggs. Now the fertile eggs from the better pairs are starting to hatch and the hen isnt feeding them so i've lost the first 2 chicks from my most promising nest. FML. Sorry to hear that. We all have these things going on and dont always say But you may want to read this from Admin member Daz http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....c=13659&hl= MURPHYS LAW OF BIRDKEEPING The best bird in the aviary always dies. Your best hen never lays fertile eggs The pair nesting in the cage that is hardest to get into always have eight chicks The pair you are really counting on lays 8 fertile eggs and all addle before hatching Budgie droppings are attracted to breeding cage roofs. You always run out of seed on a Sunday night when all nests are full of chicks. You move a 3 day old unbanded chick from a pair of greens to a pair of blues (knowing you can identify it later) with the same age chicks and discover later they are all blue. The only chick that misses banding is in the best condition for the spring show and is a stormer. You inadvertently pull out one of the prime throat spots on your best bird one week before the show. Your second best bird looses one tail feather a week before the show. You discover an hour after that the bird you just sold, you had been keeping for a special pairing. The power in the shed fails when it is minus 25 with an 80 mph wind and there are chicks in all the nest boxes. One of the birds you left at home was better than the birds that won. No matter what clothes you wear to to work, if you look hard enough you will find budgie feathers in them. Out of town visitors always visit your aviary the day before your major weekly clean out. Every time you think you have had a fabulous year, you visit your friend down the road, who is having an average year and has raised twice as many chicks as you have, with only half the number of pairs. Every vehicle you own has bird seed in it (and some of your friends) Budgie down is attracted to beards. Every aviary is built 25% too small. Your best bird ends up in your worst show cage. Bird seed is attracted to the living room carpets. The city works department only does heavy construction next to your property during breeding season. Droppings adhear to the side of the band where the number is, not to the year or code that you already know. One of your best birds loses it's tail feathers just before the show so you take it along anyway and throw it on the cage floor in case the judge gives you some credit, and sure enough he doesn't, but you still try to explain to him that..... (see the next one) Tail feathers are attracted to show cage floors Eight out of nine Lutinos are pure yellow (guess which one is wrong classed? ) Edited August 22, 201014 yr by KAZ
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