Hi everyone,

 

I am just having a think about my next breeding season and have a few questions.

I have had a few people who buy budgies from me ask me to breed some Lutino's for them and i was curious as to my best plan of attack. Am i best to breed Lutino to Lutino or Lutino to a split Lutino or plain green normal even if it takes a bit longer to achieve what i am after. I have 1 Lutino hen and a Lutino Cock plus many split Lutino cocks but they are sons of the Lutino hen (i also have a nice Albino hen if that makes any difference to your advice).

Can you breed mother to son or only father to daughter?

 

The other question i have is i would like to try and breed lacewings. Can i do this myself with ino's and cinnamon's or is it more complex than that. The ino's are all cocks and the hens obviously cinnamon.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Lib

If you don't show breed the quickest way to get more lutino's is to breed lutino to lutino. The only reason you breed splits or from splits is to increase the size and quality of the lutino's that you start off with. If it's just a pet bird, who care about the size or feather just breed lute to lute to get 100% lutes. You can also pair the Albino to the Lutes and get lutes and maybe albies (if the lute is split for blue).

 

You can also breed lutes from split to lute or split to normal but the proprtions are lower so just go for broke with the lute to lute.

 

Lacewings are the result of cinnamon crossing over from the gene of one bird and attaching to the gene of the ino bird or visa versa. This crossover happens in only a very few percentage of pairings. Once the gene has crossed over the cinnamon and the ino travel together and behave as a single gene except for in a very small percentage of pairings when the genes can re-crossover resulting in the cinnamon and ino gene splitting and either a cinnamon or an ino popping out where they really shouldn't. It's gonna take you an awefully long time to get yourself a lacewing if you are going to try and breed one in this manner (or you might luck it in early) the rate of crossover is estinated at 3% of all chicks bred from cinnamon & ino results in a crossover. So for every chick it has a 3% chance of being a lacewing. Just go and buy a lacewing to breed with - much simpler.

If you don't show breed the quickest way to get more lutino's is to breed lutino to lutino. The only reason you breed splits or from splits is to increase the size and quality of the lutino's that you start off with. If it's just a pet bird, who care about the size or feather just breed lute to lute to get 100% lutes. You can also pair the Albino to the Lutes and get lutes and maybe albies (if the lute is split for blue).You can also breed lutes from split to lute or split to normal but the proprtions are lower so just go for broke with the lute to lute.Lacewings are the result of cinnamon crossing over from the gene of one bird and attaching to the gene of the ino bird or visa versa. This crossover happens in only a very few percentage of pairings. Once the gene has crossed over the cinnamon and the ino travel together and behave as a single gene except for in a very small percentage of pairings when the genes can re-crossover resulting in the cinnamon and ino gene splitting and either a cinnamon or an ino popping out where they really shouldn't. It's gonna take you an awefully long time to get yourself a lacewing if you are going to try and breed one in this manner (or you might luck it in early) the rate of crossover is estinated at 3% of all chicks bred from cinnamon & ino results in a crossover. So for every chick it has a 3% chance of being a lacewing. Just go and buy a lacewing to breed with - much simpler.

Gina, 20 years ago when I was Editor of the WABC Magazine, I reprinted a substantial article on your explanation here. I got smashed from pillar to post as people were of the firm opinion that the Lacewing was a separate variety and had no relation to the ino as you have correctly described. I bred a Lacewing hen from two Albinos at about the same time. It wasnt a badly marked ino. The inos, at least the cock, had been masking cinnamon. Interesting.Here is a very good reference for this discussion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ino_budgeriga...tation#Genetics

Interesting when people just go on refuting what has already been scientifically proven - but then I suppose there are still SOME people who think the world is indeed flat.

 

In the few years that I've been breeding lacewings I have bred one hen albino from a lacewing to normal pairing and GB in one of her first few lacewing to split pairings has bred a lutino so a good example of crossover again (well reverse crossover in this case).

 

Thanks for the article!

 

My favourite genetics book Dr Terry Martins - Guide to Colour Mutations and Genetics in Parrots, also has a neat section on crossover too.

If you don't show breed the quickest way to get more lutino's is to breed lutino to lutino. The only reason you breed splits or from splits is to increase the size and quality of the lutino's that you start off with. If it's just a pet bird, who care about the size or feather just breed lute to lute to get 100% lutes. You can also pair the Albino to the Lutes and get lutes and maybe albies (if the lute is split for blue).

 

You can also breed lutes from split to lute or split to normal but the proprtions are lower so just go for broke with the lute to lute.

 

Lacewings are the result of cinnamon crossing over from the gene of one bird and attaching to the gene of the ino bird or visa versa. This crossover happens in only a very few percentage of pairings. Once the gene has crossed over the cinnamon and the ino travel together and behave as a single gene except for in a very small percentage of pairings when the genes can re-crossover resulting in the cinnamon and ino gene splitting and either a cinnamon or an ino popping out where they really shouldn't. It's gonna take you an awefully long time to get yourself a lacewing if you are going to try and breed one in this manner (or you might luck it in early) the rate of crossover is estinated at 3% of all chicks bred from cinnamon & ino results in a crossover. So for every chick it has a 3% chance of being a lacewing. Just go and buy a lacewing to breed with - much simpler.

Thanks Nubbly,

Yes i only breed pet type at this stage but as is common the Lutino's are quite small which i don't want in any case. The Albino hen is a show type which was purchased as a cull from a show breeder and is a good size so should i put the Lut to the albino and then use the chick's from that pairing later on? From another link i have read on this forum people seem to have problems with Lut to Lut pairings as in strength of chicks and size issues etc this has made me ask the questions i have as i would rather avoid the frustration if there was a better way. I would one day like to show budgies so i am trying to upsize my birds and have obtained some show type to help me with this project.

Lib

Well that's a little different then. If you do care about increasing size and features towards showing birds then outcrossing with strong normals (Normal Dark Greens are favoured to improve the buttercup yellow colouring sought after in lutes) to obtain split cocks and improved hens is a must.

 

Breeding lute to lute will not necessarily cause any undue issues with chicks per say and to be brutally honest unless you are serious about showing and ready to do it then there really is no reason to not put the lutes together. In fact smaller pet shop birds generally live longer and are healthier, making them much better pets, due to the fact that they do not have to support the growth of excess feather that show birds produce. IF you DO get into showing birds then working on improving size would best be done with the purchase of a strong outcross.

 

But if the Albie is a bigger bird then you could definitely kill 2 birds with one stone by pairing her to a Lutie cock. You will still get all ino's as I mentioned above, hopefully you will also get some improvement in size imparted from the hen AND you might also get 50% Albies IF the cock bird is split to blue. If you are trying to breed for showing then keeping the better chicks to breed from later is essential anyway.

 

Hope that makes sense!

Well that's a little different then. If you do care about increasing size and features towards showing birds then outcrossing with strong normals (Normal Dark Greens are favoured to improve the buttercup yellow colouring sought after in lutes) to obtain split cocks and improved hens is a must.

 

Breeding lute to lute will not necessarily cause any undue issues with chicks per say and to be brutally honest unless you are serious about showing and ready to do it then there really is no reason to not put the lutes together. In fact smaller pet shop birds generally live longer and are healthier, making them much better pets, due to the fact that they do not have to support the growth of excess feather that show birds produce. IF you DO get into showing birds then working on improving size would best be done with the purchase of a strong outcross.

 

But if the Albie is a bigger bird then you could definitely kill 2 birds with one stone by pairing her to a Lutie cock. You will still get all ino's as I mentioned above, hopefully you will also get some improvement in size imparted from the hen AND you might also get 50% Albies IF the cock bird is split to blue. If you are trying to breed for showing then keeping the better chicks to breed from later is essential anyway.

 

Hope that makes sense!

Thanks! That does make lots of sense.