Hi, a breeder from Poland had a df spangle with strong body color:

This is DF spangle, right?

 

 

No it's not

this is a DF Spangle

Blue series

 

a Green series would be Pure Yellow

 

yours looks like a Yellow Face type 2 Sky Blue Spangle

 

 

I agree. This bird is not a DF spangle with suffusion.

well i think you know more than km as i believe it is a yf sky blue df Opaline spangle

if its not that then its only got one other option a clear flighted pied spangle

but i dont know much either squeak so .....

 

 

 

RUDE MUCH??????

 

the bird is not a df spangle it is a spangle it is a yellow face and it sky blue and since its Sea green in color That makes it a type 2 yellow face

 

I saw no Opaline - don't have to say I don't know much because I'm fairly certain I know a lot more than you think

 

but I guess all my years of Studying mutations, and breeding my own birds and more studying on mutations makes me know nothing - Yet I'm the one every one on other forums goes to when they want to know what mutation they have, or random people online send me Emails wanting to know what they have in mutations, genders, what to pair theirs to to get certain mutations what they will get if they paired Bird X to bird Y and they refuse to ask any one else because They like MY KNOWLEDGE the best. Gee I guess I know something after all

 

 

firstly reading does not always give you knowledge

 

second i don't give two hoots what you think you know as i know myself from where and how i know what i do

 

thirdly

yes its a yf2 sky blue

it is Opaline ,and it is spangle the fact that its got white cheek patches with out any purple is what concludes its a df spangle regardless of it not having any spangle marks as unless it was cinnamon which is impossible as its got blue feet so

kaz im sorry but unless this is as i stated before some kind of pied which as its back is fully yellow possibly could be but doubt it then im going to say still

it is very heavily marked df spangle yf2 opaline skyblue cock bird

 

 

may the owner of this bird please inform us of this birds heritage if known if not please what do you believe it to be and why ???

 

 

also k and m you may tell people what you know but you are not always right

and being they came here for help doesn't help the fact that they may listen to your misinformed information

 

i do not claim to know it all and definitely am not trying to get a spot as best person to be informed by here on the forum either so im happy for you your so well liked good for you

 

i dont need followers to know my birds

thanks

gb

That's not my bird but I ask the owner about mutations of this budgie and he said that this is yellow face double factor spangle. He is one of the breeders in Poland who knows the budgies mutations the best.

That's not my bird but I ask the owner about mutations of this budgie and he said that this is yellow face double factor spangle. He is one of the breeders in Poland who knows the budgies mutations the best.

I do not believe this bird

 

is a YF DF spangle.

 

Here's one of mine

 

 

There was yellow DF spangle posted on this forum in the past (was it Splat's???) with MASSIVE suffusion, so much so that it did look like a very beautiful clearwing

Here's that bird Nubbly

some nice looking birds there Kaz

 

back to my violet hen.. the yellow baby.. Any ideas on what it will be?

 

Being yellow series(green??) im suprised no one picked up that both parents are both blues

Tbought id post in. This topic again

 

It appears she is a violet spangle. She was paired to an odd green spangle that turned out to be green violet spangle. Most chicks came out spangle violets. One like mum but a touch darker??? More mauve like

 

did you get any double factor spangles (all white or all green no markings)?

 

Spangle is Dominant it only takes 1 parent to have it to get any

Would it be possible that the mum is DF spangle with diffusion?? Perhaps she is not spangle at all and just the father was, if you look at the mum and imagine the violet to be darker(like mauve) that was one of the babies

 

 

You never did add the new photos.........iris ring photos and back of her for markings. Photos of the father ( pairing ) and the babies too ?

No at the time I had a crappy camera so coudlnt get clear photos, have a DSLR now so can take better photos, well that is the idea anyway im not the best photographer lol

 

I cant do the father, he was killed by a hawk attack a few months ago(actually probably late last year), one day I left the netting off the front and had an attack! I have 2 babies I have kept, both violets, the others got culled to make room for some more birds.

 

 

Actually I found an old picture that shows both(terribly but its all I have)

Dad in middle, mum on RHS(you can see iris rings)

 

picture of the two violet young

 

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Kangaroodog/2010%20young/IMG_2491.jpg

 

 

 

I have paired her to the cock in the picture below, he hasnt really shown any interest in a hen his whole life(he must be 3) any ideas on what they will throw?

 

 

 

im sorry darl but can i ask which one is the mother of the baby in question of being a df spangle violet pied (which so far every one has said is just a cinnamon or a spangle pied

 

what is the mother the grey green cinnamon pied hen shown with the yf cock bird also pied ??

 

if so the father from top picture is a yf blue bird and for the chick to be blue based mum must be /blue

 

in relation to what she is i would need to see more pics of her frount back and both sides mug shots if you please to call them before i go making my comment

 

 

as far as that other bird not related to you thats caused your thread to be hijacked (sorry bout that by way ) i really dont care what anyone thinks

if its not a df spangle opaline then it is a type of pied no spangle no spangle at all has white cheek patches like that unless its either cinnamon which it is not

or df spangle or as i said some type of pied

be nice to have mug shots of it two but im guessing thats out the question

 

um also what yellow baby i dont see no picture of a yellow baby ???

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=28930&view=findpost&p=364477

 

that yellow baby GB

 

 

Mum is in above pics, white bird with violet colour

Dad is(or in part) that GF blue bird in pics above, not sure what else got to her, but wont be happening again once I split my males/females into different avaries and stick to breeding cabinets.

looks like I may have 3 yellowfaces.. will get pics

 

 

 

 

 

oh that baby lol looks like a yf pied will be blue based i say pied as very faint touches of black on wings i could be wrong

 

 

um im sorry i posted before you got me link lol um so now im really confussed i thiought you wanted to know what the violet was ???

i want to know what her mum n dad are

 

then ill move on to her babys and their dad

possability from what you have their i would say dad is the goldenface cobalt pied in the second picture though

to the young chicks

Edited May 17, 201114 yr by GenericBlue

Cant get history of either of the parents, or pics as the pics of the male was lost when my pc crashed and no idea on the mum side, I wouldnt be able to find out either.

 

here are some other young from her tho

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

okay well

 

that blue pied is a spangle dom pied

 

 

so what was mum ?? you know that dont you

 

and dad wasnt he the one in the middle of that old picture with the cinnamon grey green dom pied hen ???

or not

if not

can you just tell me from start no pics

what was mum of the violet bird and dad just colours and if you know their variety ?

That's not my bird but I ask the owner about mutations of this budgie and he said that this is yellow face double factor spangle. He is one of the breeders in Poland who knows the budgies mutations the best.

I do not believe this bird

 

is a YF DF spangle.

 

Here's one of mine

 

 

There was yellow DF spangle posted on this forum in the past (was it Splat's???) with MASSIVE suffusion, so much so that it did look like a very beautiful clearwing

Here's that bird Nubbly

 

I'm gonna have to tell you people to pull your heads in aren't I.

 

YES the top bird is a DF Spangle. LOOK AT THE CHEEK PATCHES - are the mottled violet & white???? NO they are pure white. It's a DF Spangle okay!

 

And no kaz the bird I was thinking about was this one.

 

 

 

Also a DF spangle. YES IT IS - LOOK AT THE CHEEK PATCH! okay?!

thank you finally someone whom knows a birds variety by its true identification factors

 

wheres that rabbit banging its head on the wall gone as omg .......

 

birds have classifications for reasons and im yet to ever see a spangle of any variety with plain white cheeks

only df spangles

albinos and lutinos off top of my head have white cheek patches

the ones with violet through them in lutes and albinos are spangle lutes or albinos

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by GenericBlue

Learn something everyday dont we Thanks Nubbly

Learn something everyday dont we Thanks Nubbly

 

 

i was not saying you dont know your birds kaz i know you do but i tryed to say what nubbly said its all in the cheek patches tail quills and feet

when in doubt cheek them out !

 

seems sometimes though i waste my time trying to point things out maybe you do need to be a well established breeder on this forum to be listened too after all

 

clearly no one was going to take my word as valued or correct information

 

its definitely made my mind up not to bother par- taking in any topics of people questioning a birds variety again

Hey GB even I had to say it twice!!! I wouldn't be much of a judge if I couldn't pick a DF spangle - heavily suffused or not - in fact the suffusion makes it easier to tell in certain circumstances (especially the distribution of the suffusion in DF's).

 

Mutation discussions are very interesting in my opinion but people do have a tendency to want to pigeon hole birds based on what they think they see, not remembering that there can be so much variation in the single variety. As we have seen DF spangles can be really heavily suffused and can even carry what appears to be light wing markings. Albinos too. This doesn't mean that they are not DF's or Albinos, just that they are an extreme example of a bird of that variety. Also just because they don't exactly meet a MAN-MADE standard doesn't mean they are not that variety, just maybe a poor example according to what we humans aim to breed for in the variety.

 

A bit of perspective on this is helpful for everyone.

Hey GB even I had to say it twice!!! I wouldn't be much of a judge if I couldn't pick a DF spangle - heavily suffused or not - in fact the suffusion makes it easier to tell in certain circumstances (especially the distribution of the suffusion in DF's).

 

Mutation discussions are very interesting in my opinion but people do have a tendency to want to pigeon hole birds based on what they think they see, not remembering that there can be so much variation in the single variety. As we have seen DF spangles can be really heavily suffused and can even carry what appears to be light wing markings. Albinos too. This doesn't mean that they are not DF's or Albinos, just that they are an extreme example of a bird of that variety. Also just because they don't exactly meet a MAN-MADE standard doesn't mean they are not that variety, just maybe a poor example according to what we humans aim to breed for in the variety.

 

A bit of perspective on this is helpful for everyone.

 

 

yes i agree so many birds are miss judged for variety based on visual look i just find it hard that no one ever goes on the true ( as you said ) man made standards that were put in place

 

after all its the quickest easiest way to conclude a bird

then if doubts still( me for myself with my birds or at shows) i will question someone whom breeds or has knowledge of the bird i want to verify

as i said

 

cheeks

tail

feet

and i forgot eyes

the four secrets to verification of a birds variety

Just to put my two cents worth in. DF Spangles are quite capable of being extremely suffused. Early on in their development it was common to see them like the one that started this topic. People being people decided the suffusion can and was reduced to the show standard we have today.

 

K&M I don't know what other forums you are on but I have looked at a few around the place. My main interest in them is usually always the genetics side of things and I can tell you there has been some really bad answers on those forums. Given some of your answers since joining BBC, I can say that although sometimes you have been 100% right you have at times been 100% wrong.

 

GB settle petal or I'll put the leash on ya.

 

Nubbs, bang on with the pix mate.

 

Pawel, thanks for posting such a picture of a beautiful budgie.

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by RIPbudgies

@ rip

i was very graceful in the way i responded to k and m and i don't need to be the spot light or apple of anybody's eye on any forum nor do i feel the need to be right in everything i say or would i be so full of myself to think i was

the fact she got on her high n mighty horse but was totally incorrect was to me quiet amusing as i am to lay back to be actually a fended by someones words whom i don't or will i ever know

 

the main thing is the variety has been verified

and im assuming that means the violet is too

a df violet spangle ??? would that be correct or are their still questions on her variety .

gb

some nice looking birds there Kaz

 

back to my violet hen.. the yellow baby.. Any ideas on what it will be?

 

Being yellow series(green??) im suprised no one picked up that both parents are both blues

 

 

Just working back through this thread to see the fireworks and came across this.

 

Sorry RATEMYMATE aren't we talking about your YF (or golden face) baby here. A number of people pointed out that it might be a YF, right? That gives you a yellow bird from 2 blue series birds (one of them must be a yf though (or a df yellow face). Or are you talking about a different bird now. I'm all confused!

as a side note.............in this topic..... I just want to say. I dont mind being told I was wrong about something, because thats how we learn stuff

some nice looking birds there Kaz

 

back to my violet hen.. the yellow baby.. Any ideas on what it will be?

 

Being yellow series(green??) im suprised no one picked up that both parents are both blues

 

 

Just working back through this thread to see the fireworks and came across this.

 

Sorry RATEMYMATE aren't we talking about your YF (or golden face) baby here. A number of people pointed out that it might be a YF, right? That gives you a yellow bird from 2 blue series birds (one of them must be a yf though (or a df yellow face). Or are you talking about a different bird now. I'm all confused!

 

 

 

lol i too got confussed

i think she was talking about the violet bird first then the violets chick which yes is as you said a yf bird i think it may be pied also nubbly so what is your opinion really need new chick picture to tell that but i saw some darker pins on wings

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by GenericBlue

some nice looking birds there Kaz

 

back to my violet hen.. the yellow baby.. Any ideas on what it will be?

 

Being yellow series(green??) im suprised no one picked up that both parents are both blues

 

 

Just working back through this thread to see the fireworks and came across this.

 

Sorry RATEMYMATE aren't we talking about your YF (or golden face) baby here. A number of people pointed out that it might be a YF, right? That gives you a yellow bird from 2 blue series birds (one of them must be a yf though (or a df yellow face). Or are you talking about a different bird now. I'm all confused!

 

 

If this:

 

 

 

Is the father of this:

 

Then there shouldn't be any confusion about where the yellow comes from.

 

People should stop thinking of their yellow face birds as being blue series. This chick is not a green series, and the father above it is not a blue series. They are both in the yellow/golden face series (if you want to insist on using the word "series"), which in order of dominance, lies in between the green and the blue.

 

But I must say, it was very hard for me to sift through all the "off topic" information in this thread, so maybe I have picked out the wrong father for this chick.

you are right with the father(well possibly) finnie

 

I reada bout the yellow faces but ended up more confused then anything about them, it was late at the time however.. maybe I need to revisit it.

@ rip

i was very graceful in the way i responded to k and m and i don't need to be the spot light or apple of anybody's eye on any forum nor do i feel the need to be right in everything i say or would i be so full of myself to think i was

the fact she got on her high n mighty horse but was totally incorrect was to me quiet amusing as i am to lay back to be actually a fended by someones words whom i don't or will i ever know

 

the main thing is the variety has been verified

and im assuming that means the violet is too

a df violet spangle ??? would that be correct or are their still questions on her variety .

gb

 

 

Graceful???????

 

really??????

 

well i think you know more than km

 

if you call that graceful That's a freaking joke!

 

You could of just said I was wrong did not have to put it as I know nothing

 

I do NOT see suffusion a lot here, Maybe you guys in other countries do BUT here in my area NO it is NOT COMMON! its hardly ever seen

 

Maybe we are better at breeding i don't know but I'm gone so it doesn't really matter and I've never been 100% wrong I work extremely hard to know the mutations, and the genetics and how they work If i'm not 100% sure I say so I use the words such as "think" "looks like" Etc etc etc so you all have fun and do what ever it is you do i'm sick of the degrading and rudeness Plus it takes forever to get a reply I'd hate to see when some one posts about a hurt bird and it takes them 2 weeks to get a response

@ rip

i was very graceful in the way i responded to k and m and i don't need to be the spot light or apple of anybody's eye on any forum nor do i feel the need to be right in everything i say or would i be so full of myself to think i was

the fact she got on her high n mighty horse but was totally incorrect was to me quiet amusing as i am to lay back to be actually a fended by someones words whom i don't or will i ever know

 

the main thing is the variety has been verified

and im assuming that means the violet is too

a df violet spangle ??? would that be correct or are their still questions on her variety .

gb

 

 

Graceful???????

 

really??????

 

well i think you know more than km

 

if you call that graceful That's a freaking joke!

 

You could of just said I was wrong did not have to put it as I know nothing

 

I do NOT see suffusion a lot here, Maybe you guys in other countries do BUT here in my area NO it is NOT COMMON! its hardly ever seen

 

Maybe we are better at breeding i don't know but I'm gone so it doesn't really matter and I've never been 100% wrong I work extremely hard to know the mutations, and the genetics and how they work If i'm not 100% sure I say so I use the words such as "think" "looks like" Etc etc etc so you all have fun and do what ever it is you do i'm sick of the degrading and rudeness Plus it takes forever to get a reply I'd hate to see when some one posts about a hurt bird and it takes them 2 weeks to get a response

 

I have highlighted this part as in this case K&M you were 100% wrong! If you want to take up a challenge I can post some pics of birds that I bet you will not be able to identify.

 

 

K&M if you knew GB you know that she was indeed being graceful. I tell you now that GB is dyslectic and also has a few other problem relating to an accident some years ago which affects her being able to express what she is thinking. She is also having a few personal issues to deal with right now. She has no malice towards you or anybody for that fact but gets extremely frustrated by being ignored when she knows she is right.

 

GB did however bring up a vaild point about you knowledge. You say you have studies mutations for years and yet you seem to know little. If your knowledge is based only on your location then you cannot be all knowing. One must also be open to the possibilty of something you have never seen before. K&M we don't like to see people leave either. I think you were rather rude in saying it takes ages for people to reply to posts. This is not so. Most are replied to within 24 hours. Some people are very busy and don't have the time to been on the computor all day. Also the way the forum is set up is that if a post has not been answered it drops out of the 'new posts' or 'view new posts' or whatever it is (maybe a moderator can clarify) and can sometimes get forgotten. I know I keep meaning to reply to one of your post re me breeding teils. So whilst here I will tell you I have and have am getting back into it. I currently have a pair of Pearls (Opaline in budgie speak).

 

The original bird is a DF Spangle and those of us who have been lucky enough to see them like this know it to be fact. There is variation in all mutations, just more extreme in some than others. My first Spangle was purchased in 1983 as a pet which subsequently set me down the path to the show world. I have seen the chages within the spangle over years, some for the better and some not.

 

The bird from Poland is a DF Spangle and also a SF Yellowface Mutant 2 and although hard to say with certainty does look Opaline.

 

The pix of the chicks as far as the Yellowface goes begs a question or two. The father is on the face of it either a DF Yellowface Mutant 2 or a DF Goldenface but blues are notorious for not getting good photos of so it is hard to tell for sure. The chicks however seem to show different levels of yellow which leads me to believe the father may be a composite of two different types of Yellowfaces. The chick with a greater amount of yellow would appear to be a SF Goldenface and the other a SF Yellowface Mutant 1. My question to the breeder would be: Did you breed any non Yellowfaced birds from this pairing?