Yesterday at the budgie show at Southwest there was a budgie that caught my eye. Not secifically because of the budgie although he was nice, but the fact he was in the Recessive Pied category against other recessive pieds but he was in fact a spangle recessive pied, looking more spangle than a recessive pied.

I wonder what was the point of putting him in ? and from our resident judges here on BBC...could someone tell me please how you judge a bird that is a combination like this ? is there a degree of difficulty ? do any thoughts go through your head that perhaps it shouldnt be shown against recessive pieds ? Is there another category it should have gone in ? Just questions I have been wondering about

 

The recessive pied spangle in question..............

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 201015 yr by KAZ

Yes very beautiful bird... I'm still learning so it'll be interesting to see what others say about him...

Awesome looking bird. I will be interested to see what is said abotu him.

 

Whow as judging yesterday by the way at the meeting?

Gina (nubbly) and I think Gary and Cec... I think there was someone else but can't remember... :S Nubbly will know, she knows all...

He has to go in the recessive pied class as that is the right class. The judges should judge the bird first , so if this bird was the best type in size , outline, Etc he should win .

My guess as to why you would put spangle into recessives would be to increase size , then cross back to a recessive hen and hope you breed some normal recessives.

My guess as to why you would put spangle into recessives would be to increase size , then cross back to a recessive hen and hope you breed some normal recessives.

My question isnt about why you would put spangle into a recessive line as we know thats to increase size etc. My question was why would you enter a spangle recessive pied in the recessive part of a show. Why show the spangle pied ?

Edited April 19, 201015 yr by KAZ

It had to go in recessive pied - no other choices! The bird must be entered into the variety class that has the largest number (unless it was a hen of course and then it could have been entered as a hen instead).

 

I was judge yesterday but called on Cec and Gary when I needed. I judged the bird and the class in question yesterday. It was a great solid bird but it was more solidly marked than it appears as the spangle markings remove some of the black from feathers that would ordinarily be fully black so does it have too much marking for a recessive pied???? If it was actually normally marked instead of spangle it definitely would have appeared heavily marked. Difficult question at the time and one that did ultimately affect my judgement of the class. The bird I put in first place was also a strong bird but better marked for a recessive pied.

 

It was Gary's bird as I found out later and knowing the quality of Gary's spangles I can understand why he would put them into his rec pieds. As a dominant variety at least it won't be hiding anywhere, it's either there or it's not there and that's that. Gary asked me if I found it more difficult to judge the bird with spangle markings. I had to answer yes for the reason I stated above. If you look at where the actual marked feathers are and then imagine them fully black this rec pied, although a strong contender is too heavily marked. It was actually a really strong class with about 6 or so open grade birds to judge against each other - unusual for rec pieds in WA.

 

And to answer Kaz - I would have been tempted to enter it too it was a solid bird with directional feather and head qualities not often seen in rec pieds.

Edited April 19, 201015 yr by nubbly5

An interesting topic this though isnt it

Thanks for your explanation

 

I have some mixes as you know...my spangle greywings....I wouldnt have a clue where they would go. They dont look spangle and they dont really look fully greywing either. So I keep them at home and will breed from them as they are better than their greywing siblings in my opinion.

If they are an allowable combination (you have to check your standard for this - the matrix section) then the bird is always entered into the class with the highest class number. I have to admit to scurrying off to check my standard to make sure that the combo of rec pied and spangle was indeed allowable. I thought it was when I judged them but I wantd to make 100% sure .

In the same way as this then.........you can show a spangle dominant pied ?

Anyway more to the point,

where did the judge,place it in the line up.

Check your standard Kaz, then give us the answer!

Check your standard Kaz, then give us the answer!

From what I can figure out it ( dom pied spangle ) would be shown as spangle ?

A Dominant Pied Spangle would be judged in the Dominant pied class.. Page 24 of the Standard.

 

I would have entered that bird in the Rescessive Pied Class as I am looking to do with my Recessive Pied Spangle... Kaz is that a Red Ringer?

 

The first thing thst draws your attention is the bird's head qualities and then the variety. From the photos I can only comment on the head qualities, Very nice directional feathering and top end.

The back line seems to be sweeping and not a straight form but this could be the angle of the shot.

I thought the point Nubbly made in regard to reversing the spangle markings and how they bird would look after you did this.

 

I mentally did this, and the bird would be very heavily marked in my opinion.

 

In saying that, the head is magnificent.

 

The young of this bird who are not spangles might be amazing.

Check your standard Kaz, then give us the answer!

From what I can figure out it ( dom pied spangle ) would be shown as spangle ?

 

 

okay Kaz..... what made you say spangle? (this question is because I'm interested not critical if your answer!)

 

From what was written before first you have to check if the combination is an allowable one. So on page 24 of the standard you check the combinations section at the bottom. Its a dom pied and a spangle. Dom pied is class 15, spangle is class 14. If it IS allowable then the bird is entered as the highest class - so dom pied (15). Check the dom pied entry and go along the line of combinations. If 14 (spangle) appears in the line (which it does) then it is an allowable combination. If it does not as for the case with say a Dom pied lacewing combo then the bird is a non standard variety (or in actual fact a non standard combination of varieties).

 

Yes Dave I agree it was a lovely bird and why it got second in a class of 6 or so and not last. I tossed up for some time about giving it first place but the bird that I finally put up was a great bird too - both had different faults - bigger and a better outline and better marked but not quite as well feathered facially as this fellow. I have to admit to really liking bird with mordern faces - good directional feather, good width of head and wide deep masks. I have to actually make sure I look at the bird as a whole and consider outline, deportment, etc etc. It's probably why I took time to really ponder this bird - I loved his head and face features! Like I said, not often seen in rec pieds........

Check your standard Kaz, then give us the answer!

From what I can figure out it ( dom pied spangle ) would be shown as spangle ?

 

 

okay Kaz..... what made you say spangle? (this question is because I'm interested not critical if your answer!)

 

 

Probably because I couldnt locate my copy of the standard and it was late and I was tired

Edited April 20, 201015 yr by KAZ

Check your standard Kaz, then give us the answer!

From what I can figure out it ( dom pied spangle ) would be shown as spangle ?

 

 

okay Kaz..... what made you say spangle? (this question is because I'm interested not critical if your answer!)

 

 

Probably because I couldnt locate my copy of the standard and it was late and I was tired

 

Hahahaha! The reason I asked you to work it out was that my standard was still in the car, it was late and I couldn't be bothered to go and get it to check if they were allowable combinations