Hi all, I am trying to decide what I might get by pairing these two birds:

 

This one or

 

with

 

 

 

I think Mum of pied might be mauve not grey.

birds 1&2 are brothers.

 

Would it be possible to get any clearwings with this pairing? If not can anyone say what might throw clearwings. I'm still all at sea with genetics.

Not sure about clearwings, but they are both nice birds. You might have to wait until the more experianced breeders come along.

Clearwing Matings and Expectations

 

The clearwing factor is only dominant to ordinary yellows or whites. The whitewing and yellow-wing can be reproduced by mating with any variety or colour which is split for white or yellow, but the proportion will be small. Some of the non-clearwing birds bred from this pairing will be split for clearwing and others for white and yellow.

 

It should be realised when mating your birds that the variety exists in two forms - purebreeding, carrying two factors (2-F) for clearwing and the other carrying one factor (1-F). It is unlikely that an individual is (2-F) unless it has come from (2-F) parents.

 

To determine if the bird is pure breeding it should be mated to a white or yellow. If only clearwings appear it is definitely (2-F), but all the youngsters from the pairing will be (1-F) and capable of reproducing white and yellow.

 

Recommended Pairings

Yellow-wing Light Green X Yellow-wing Dark Green ............. Retains size and improves body colour of Light Green

Yellow-wing Light Green/Blue X Whitewing Cobalt ................Improves size of Whitewings and retains depth of body colour

Yellow-wing Dark Green X Whitewing Skyblue ................... Improves body colour of Whitewings

Yellow-wing Olive Green X Whitewing Skyblue............... Produces 100% Type I Clearwings

Whitewing Skyblue X Whitewing Cobalt ........................ Retains size and improves body colour of Skyblue

Yellow-wing Light Green X Whitewing Mauve................. Produces 100% Type II Clearwings

 

The Type I and II birds bred from the above pairings will prove to be of immense value to you in reproducing Whitewing Cobalts and Violets with outstanding size and always providing the parents are of good quality, the exhibition qualities will be exceptional. The following suggested matings should bring about the desired effect.

 

Yellow-wing Dark Green/Blue (Type I) X Whitewing Cobalt

Yellow-wing Dark Green/Blue (Type II) X Whitewing Skyblue

 

An immediate improvement in size of the Whitewing Cobalts bred will be seen from these two matings.

 

Yellow-wing Dark Green/Blue (Type I) X Whitewing Violet

 

Providing the parents have reasonable wing colouring, some exceptional exhibition Whitewing Violets will be bred.

 

As a general rule, pair Whitewings X Yellow-wing and Light X Dark Factor. Not only will this enable you to breed both whitewing and yellow-wing, but also to reproduce birds in all colour shades, i.e. Light, Dark and Olive Green and Skyblue, Cobalt Mauve and Violet in the Blue Series.

 

I think Mum of pied might be mauve not grey.

 

 

There are a couple of anomolies with this bird.

 

I can't see if it has an eye ring or not. Can you enlighten us?

 

You state the parents are a Cinnamon Sky cock and a Recessive Pied Grey hen. If so They could not produce such a bird. Can you produce pics of the parent birds?

 

The picture above is of a Mauve Opaline Pied. Which type of pied at this stage is undetermined, I need to see the eye, iris ring or not.

A Sky paired to a Mauve can only produce Cobalts. This bird looks Mauve.

A Cinnamon father will produce all Cinnamon Daughters and I do not see Cinnamon on this bird.

A Recessive can only be produced if both parents are visual Recessive or one is visual and the other split.

 

As for your question. NO. Both birds you wish to use need to be carrying Clearwing and it would appear the hen is not.

Edited February 13, 201015 yr by RIPbudgies

Thanks for reply R.I.P, Looking at Dad he is probably greywing not cinnamon? Adding pics of Dad.

Mum and 3 siblings.

 

 

Mum & Dad :

 

Iris ring:

 

Another sibling, hen?

PLUS 1 Violet? normal cock. Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

Thanks for reply R.I.P, Looking at Dad he is probably greywing not cinnamon? Adding pics of Dad. This bird appears Cinnamon but the photo is showing a yellowish cast which will give different results. You are now saying the birds is Greywing. Are the marking Grey or Brown?

Mum and 3 siblings.

The bird sitting to the right of the Sky Blue looks Cinnamon. The foreground bird appear Dominant Pied.

 

Mum & Dad :

 

Iris ring: Can most defiantely see the iris ring here. Also it now shows the bird is Opaline but does appear to be more Cobalt in this picture which would be inline with the parents colour would produce.

 

Another sibling, hen? This hen is Cobalt and I see no iris ring and she has the typical markings (Grizzle appearance) of a Danish Recessive Pied.

PLUS 1 Violet? normal cock. Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

 

Do you cage or colony breed your birds?

 

I do like all that lovely colour and piedness you have there.

Thanks for reply R.I.P, Looking at Dad he is probably greywing not cinnamon? Adding pics of Dad. This bird appears Cinnamon but the photo is showing a yellowish cast which will give different results. You are now saying the birds is Greywing. Are the marking Grey or Brown? It's more brown than grey, bit hard to decide he's not normal but not really like my cinnamons.

Mum and 3 siblings.

The bird sitting to the right of the Sky Blue looks Cinnamon. She is a light in- between cinnamon, she was very pale before moult I thought she might be a dilute but her patches are a darker colour now, if she looks more cinnamon then Dad is probably cinnamon?

The foreground bird appear Dominant Pied. This is the mother of the 3 pieds.

 

Mum & Dad :

 

Iris ring: Can most defiantely see the iris ring here. Also it now shows the bird is Opaline but does appear to be more Cobalt in this picture which would be inline with the parents colour would produce. Took this one out in flight, the patches on all of them are more visibly violet, than cobalt and last normal cock bird of clutch is a definite violet.

 

Another sibling, hen? This hen is Cobalt and I see no iris ring and she has the typical markings (Grizzle appearance) of a Danish Recessive Pied.

I had another look at her and can't see iris ring on her.

 

PLUS 1 Violet? normal cock. Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

There is another sibling, marked similar to the last bird but not as much markings on the wings, I think also a hen, making 5 from the nest.

 

Do you cage or colony breed your birds? I cage bred, only my first attempt. I didn't get any history on my first birds 5 of 6 were pieds + the sky-blue cock we're trying to sort out, then added some others from a show breeders cull. I have got some pretty birds from them, just trying to work out what I bred. L.O.L.THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INPUT. R.I.P.

I do like all that lovely colour and piedness you have there.

Going on what information has now been provide it would seem the mother could well be a combination of Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied. The father is split for Recessive Pied as a Recessive Pied daughter has ensued. The cinnamon/grey colour of the father is still in doubt but if he were indeed Cinnamon, all daughters would have been Cinnamon.

 

I would still make the pairing you have orignally mentioned and it is entirely possible that there could be more surprises to come.

Going on what information has now been provide it would seem the mother could well be a combination of Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied. The father is split for Recessive Pied as a Recessive Pied daughter has ensued. The cinnamon/grey colour of the father is still in doubt but if he were indeed Cinnamon, all daughters would have been Cinnamon.

 

I would still make the pairing you have orignally mentioned and it is entirely possible that there could be more surprises to come.

 

yes i agree with rip

this hen seems to be dom /rec pied cock also /rec pied

you say all chicks were pied bar one

what was the one that was not pied as i would of said that she looked df dom but giving you got one not pied bird she can not be

i have a df dom cin opaline pied / rec pied she throughs all sf doms and rec pieds every clutch uasually two rec pieds and the rest sf doms

thats paired to a opaline /rec pied cock

by way the one with iris ring looking cobalt but you say violet that bird looks to be opaline spangle pied patches on all of them are more visibly violet, than cobalt and last normal cock bird of clutch is a definite violet.

and looks like my violets look in pics so yes id say violet looking at cheek patches also suggests this bird is violet

 

okay i just ansewd my own question he was violet norm mm okay

well she a dom/ rec pied im guessing spangled and if not well i think some one was firtile before she layed as this bird is opaline spangle hen dom pied sf violet whick meand you need a spangle to get it and cock must be / opaline

Edited February 13, 201015 yr by GenericBlue

Yeah, sorry GB don't see Spangle in that bird. What you are seeing is the result of the Dom Pied - Recessive combination in comjunction with the Opaline. Recessives have grizzled like feathers and when combined with Opaline they can sometimes appear 'Spangle like' especially when a bird has minimal markings. If the bird was indeed a Spangle it would still show that 'anchor' effect and I see no such effect evident.

Going on what information has now been provide it would seem the mother could well be a combination of Dominant Pied and Recessive Pied. The father is split for Recessive Pied as a Recessive Pied daughter has ensued. The cinnamon/grey colour of the father is still in doubt but if he were indeed Cinnamon, all daughters would have been Cinnamon.

 

I would still make the pairing you have orignally mentioned and it is entirely possible that there could be more surprises to come.

 

yes i agree with rip

this hen seems to be dom /rec pied cock also /rec pied

you say all chicks were pied bar one

what was the one that was not pied as i would of said that she looked df dom but giving you got one not pied bird she can not be

i have a df dom cin opaline pied / rec pied she throughs all sf doms and rec pieds every clutch uasually two rec pieds and the rest sf doms

thats paired to a opaline /rec pied cock

by way the one with iris ring looking cobalt but you say violet that bird looks to be opaline spangle pied patches on all of them are more visibly violet, than cobalt and last normal cock bird of clutch is a definite violet.

and looks like my violets look in pics so yes id say violet looking at cheek patches also suggests this bird is violet

 

okay i just ansewd my own question he was violet norm mm okay

well she a dom/ rec pied im guessing spangled and if not well i think some one was firtile before she layed as this bird is opaline spangle hen dom pied sf violet whick meand you need a spangle to get it and cock must be / opaline

Hi G. B. I'm going to put pics of "Family" as I'm not sure which birds your refering to.

dad

mum Showing more opaline now.

1st chick

2nd

3rd

4th(normal cock, visibly violet, to me anyway.

5th chick.

 

The two Violet Cocks at start of post are, different cage, but brothers. I was going to pair the pied hen to one of them.

This picture show front of Mum one daughter and Dad at back, next to a sky blue normal hen. Is he Cinnamon/ grey? he's not a vivid blue more washed out.

This is becoming a bit long BUT these parents and 4 other I bought were colony bred I'd say, so they could be related even. They are what I started with and added some show stock culls for new blood.

 

 

Hope this is a bit cleared than mud now.

it was this one

 

but in this picture she defenently is not spangle

rip thanks for seeing this

on other side bird looks apears spangled and opaline

she is opaline for sure but no not spangled you can see my mistake though in this picture the thin black at botom of the colured feather

, than cobalt and last normal cock bird of clutch is a definite violet.

i wish i could draw an arrow lol

but the bottom few marks looked spangled but on other side definitely not

my bad :happy-dancing:

their all so pretty though regardless of what they are

GB, don't feel bad. Thanks to this comment from RIP, I have learned something valuable, because I, too, have thought an opaline recessive pied bird was spangle before, and now I know how to tell it is not.

 

Thanks, RIP and GB!

 

 

Yeah, sorry GB don't see Spangle in that bird. What you are seeing is the result of the Dom Pied - Recessive combination in comjunction with the Opaline. Recessives have grizzled like feathers and when combined with Opaline they can sometimes appear 'Spangle like' especially when a bird has minimal markings. If the bird was indeed a Spangle it would still show that 'anchor' effect and I see no such effect evident.

Hi G. B. I'm going to put pics of "Family" as I'm not sure which birds your refering to.

dad

mum Showing more opaline now.

1st chick

NO 1

2nd

3rd

4th(normal cock, visibly violet, to me anyway.

5th chick.

 

The two Violet Cocks at start of post are, different cage, but brothers. I was going to pair the pied hen to one of them.

This picture show front of Mum one daughter and Dad at back, next to a sky blue normal hen. Is he Cinnamon/ grey? he's not a vivid blue more washed out.

This is becoming a bit long BUT these parents and 4 other I bought were colony bred I'd say, so they could be related even. They are what I started with and added some show stock culls for new blood.

 

 

Hope this is a bit cleared than mud now.

If Dad isn't cinnamon because his daughters aren't what could he be + would next picture be a dilute? sort of, similar to last pied picture?

This is another picture of no 1 chick.

If Dad isn't cinnamon because his daughters aren't what could he be + would next picture be a dilute? sort of, similar to last pied picture?[/b]

This is another picture of no 1 chick.

 

That chick is definitely cinnamon opaline recessive pied.

Edited February 15, 201015 yr by KAZ

If Dad isn't cinnamon because his daughters aren't what could he be + would next picture be a dilute? sort of, similar to last pied picture?[/b]

This is another picture of no 1 chick.

 

That chick is definitely cinnamon opaline recessive pied.

Thank's Kaz. I just read colours for beg. etc again and thought maybe fallow, wrong again, but then if other hens in clutch don't show the cinnamon are they hens? Can you tell from the above pics, the pied's I mean, violet is a cock.

Hi Robyn it apears to me that the only hen from the clutch is the cinnamon violet recessive pied the rest of them seem to be and should be cocks their ceres look to be more flesh coloured than brown. Cheers Jenny

 

Also forgot to add that the hen at the start of your post appears to be the same as the mother of all the birds in question from looking at all the pics.

Edited February 15, 201015 yr by hilly

Thank's Hilly. I went out to see if I could get better pics of pied 's ceres, because now I think maybe my "hen's" may not be. Because Kaz says No 1 is cinnamon, Dad must be which means others could all be Cock's. It's overcast and pics not good. I read an article about how to sex birds by cere's but can't find it at the moment. So what's new!! I will keep looking though. :rofl:

I read an article about how to sex birds by cere's but can't find it at the moment. So what's new!! I will keep looking though. :rofl:

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=19173

 

and here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=25470

Edited February 15, 201015 yr by KAZ

I read an article about how to sex birds by cere's but can't find it at the moment. So what's new!! I will keep looking though. :raincloud:

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=19173

 

and here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=25470

Thanks Kaz, I found first link, I was more looking for one on pied's but found an answer that said cere's on some cock pieds stay pink. I'm really starting to think 3 I thought were hens are Cock's. Can't get good pics without catching them and it's too hot to chase them in aviary. I guess I wait for mating behaviour for a clue. :laughter:

I read an article about how to sex birds by cere's but can't find it at the moment. So what's new!! I will keep looking though. :raincloud:

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=19173

 

and here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=25470

Thanks Kaz, I found first link, I was more looking for one on pied's but found an answer that said cere's on some cock pieds stay pink. I'm really starting to think 3 I thought were hens are Cock's. Can't get good pics without catching them and it's too hot to chase them in aviary. I guess I wait for mating behaviour for a clue. :laughter:

Ceres on recessive cocks stay pink.

I read an article about how to sex birds by cere's but can't find it at the moment. So what's new!! I will keep looking though.

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=19173

 

and here http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=25470

Thanks Kaz, I found first link, I was more looking for one on pied's but found an answer that said cere's on some cock pieds stay pink. I'm really starting to think 3 I thought were hens are Cock's. Can't get good pics without catching them and it's too hot to chase them in aviary. I guess I wait for mating behaviour for a clue.

 

You need wait no further for clues as to sex. As I said in my original post if the father is Cinnamon he can only produce Daughters who are Cinnamon so all the non Cinnamon young produced will be cocks.

Thank's Kaz & R.I.P. Tracked down articles on cere's. Looks like I won't be pairing the original violet & pied. Checked mine again in aviary to-day more like a pinky mauve than brown. Cinnamon hen is a true brown so guess I've got three more Cock birds. Back to square one.

ill swap a hen for a cock lol if only we were closer ah story of my life