Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :question:

 

man now i know your just guessing with your pairs

all your birds must be fry in the pan chicks that actually get you anywhere you have been breeding for how long again ..m i thought so

ren you make me wonder why you even breed birds

i know for fact not all breeders keep papers but i do know that if you asked them where so and so came from they could spil out at least 7 generations and point out fam members

 

you cant even seem to tell me what one cock is split to or masking

so far i have wasted almost one whole breeding session working this out myself with test breeding's

 

sex linkage birds are so the easiest to work out all you need to know is what mum and dad were that simple

its the rececive genes that come through unexpectedly

i think you will find if you keep some papers ren that you would be better off as you would actually be able to make good use of the aov birds and the splits

i think your being a fool and when you come back and read this post i hope you relive you have actually burnt a lot of people with your abrupt words whom care and help follow your advice ect

and i hope you you can see it and privetly apoligize

and im not talking about me youve always made it your right to put me down and dis me i honestly dont care cause i know i do and will always know better than you nomatter how long i have actualy breed show birds for

swhit i even can tell you history on my pet types everybird breed desirves to be recorded

what they are carrying ectra

 

this post is soooooooo wow

kaz that was a lovely extract from bible

as splat said i was taught do on to others as the do on to u

however i just urn away from

Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :question:

 

If you have asked for the pedigree of these birds and if you know how to work with sex linked varieties, you would not have this problem.

If anyone here wants to learn about genetics and is a bit slow at learning it like me... :question: Than read the articles on the link below about the 'parblue puzzle parts 1 -5'... And there are many other articles on there for good reading too...

 

http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/articles.html

 

Thank you to Hans, for giving me this info...

I think I am too much of a novice and am much too inexperienced to judge this topic or have much input.

 

BUT I will say that to me a show budgie and its background is no different than a cat or dog with a pedigree. If I were to buy a pedigree cat or dog, I'd like to know it's history - I'd expect it to have papers. Which is what a budgie's ring is to me - its papers... A pet type also deserves the same sort of paper work, but in most cases this isn't done sadly.

 

I would be happy enough to give the info of my birds to people who ask, when I plan on breeding but that's just me. I like all the information I get from people about budgies and EVERYONE here has given valuable points why we should give information to help newbies and novices like myself, and also Renee has put across why she feels she doesn't need to. Had I of come across this when first joining a budgie club, maybe I'd have been put off. But I highly doubt it as my love for the bird and learning is stronger than someone not wanting to share information. I'd have just tried somewhere else - it may take longer but I'd have gotten there

 

okay so not everyone agrees on what she has done and how she goes about it. But I guess everyone is allowed to choose their own way of things, even if it may be frowned upon by others,

 

I'm definitely not taking sides, that most certainly doesn't interest me - gosh I'm almost 28 years old, not in school. I have better more important things to do like look after my little girl, my husband and my birds. I just wanted to try and let people know what I think as a newbie myself.

 

Sorry if this offends anyone :question:

ANYONE who ends up with one of my birds from ANY SOURCE is more than welcome to contact me for details. Or for that matter any budgie advise or even a chat about birds and breeding - feel free! Newbies, oldbies, whatever!

ANYONE who ends up with one of my birds from ANY SOURCE is more than welcome to contact me for details. Or for that matter any budgie advise or even a chat about birds and breeding - feel free! Newbies, oldbies, whatever!

 

Ditto............same goes for me :laughter:

Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :laughter:

If you have asked for the pedigree of these birds and if you know how to work with sex linked varieties, you would not have this problem.

I have mentioned elsewhere that I had a couple of Normal Greens that when paired in 2008 produced 100% Normal Green chicks, imagine my surprise in 2009 when I discovered that the cocks in fact were Split cinnie ... Also I do recall reading elsewhere that Dave's Gearing boy was split Ino and this came as a surprise to its breeder as the Ino gene hadn't popped out in many generations.

 

okay as promised pics. It is a warming up to be a hot day and so they are not at their glorious best, also first time in a show cage - no matter

 

In 2009 breeding season I focused on Mask as the main feature I wanted to breed into my birds.

 

My Recessive Pied line that I worked so hard on last year is 100% Manno and Armstrong bloodlines or descendants, whichever way you want to look at it.

 

Here are a couple of examples-100% Manno Red runger bred in July 09.

 

Armstrong x Manno Blue runger bred September 09

 

I can see the Armstrong features, can you?

 

Unless I come up with a better plan these 2 will go together in August 2010.

 

Now for a few of the Blue boys. All related, 2 brothers and a cousin sharing an amazing Violet Jeff Lloyd boy as their Grandfather. Blue rungers just finally finished coming through their first moult.

 

Cobalt

(yes he is panting ... )

 

Violet

 

Dommie Pied

 

These boys are a couple of generations away from where I would like them to be. I find that with the second moult they will pop a blow but none of these are really possessing directional feather so while they will go back to the sisters they also need to go out to probably my Spangle line or even a cracker of a Normal Blue of Wayne Retzcalf's that I picked up at SWBC's written auction in December ... dunno, I will have to wait and watch them mature before making up my mind.

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by renee

And for any smart-asses out there who think you can pick up some good "variety" culls from my Pet Shop - Beware! You will get a horrid surprise when you try to breed them

 

 

For someone to do this Renee, you would have had to tell them where you offload your birds. To tell them where you offload your birds you would have had to talk to them face to face in the first place wouldnt you ? :laughter:

Another show breeder would NOT go looking in a petshop for birds when they have so many contacts through the clubs they are in and access to auctions etc

AND they pay higher prices at a petshop anyway and dont get any breeding details just the same. Better to go direct to a breeder for both a better price and details of the bird I say.

 

and what is the "horrid surprise" ? Any bird I have that has faults or will not or cannot breed would not be onsold.

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by KAZ

And for any smart-asses out there who think you can pick up some good "variety" culls from my Pet Shop - Beware! You will get a horrid surprise when you try to breed them

For someone to do this Renee, you would have had to tell them where you offload your birds. To tell them where you offload your birds you would have had to talk to them face to face in the first place wouldnt you ?

Another show breeder would NOT go looking in a petshop for birds when they have so many contacts through the clubs they are in and access to auctions etc

AND they pay higher prices at a petshop anyway and dont get any breeding details just the same. Better to go direct to a breeder for both a better price and details of the bird I say.

 

and what is the "horrid surprise" ? Any bird I have that has faults or will not or cannot breed would not be onsold.

Pull the other one Kaz, it has bells on it

 

And just to clarify to en earlier edit you posted, NO at the 2008 Christmas MBC written auction Liv did not purchase any of my birds, you see I would remember her giving me any money for birds. Plus she has a charming habit of keeping the breeders of her birds up to date with progress reports and while we have all heard in length about Renee and how almost 50% of her chicks produced Feather Dusters when paired to a Rob Dunstan cock, otherwise there has not been even a chirp. :laughter: So codswallop and moonshine to that theory.

 

For now it is a new day and I have moved on from that initial statement and in the process explained why I felt the way I did yesterday.

 

What do you think about my birds, eh?!

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by renee

What do you think about my birds, eh?!

I think I need to come over to your house and teach you how to take pictures that arent fuzzy and arent rushed. So we can actually see your birds at their best. A that time I will also bring your other camera and mine and we can do a post on your birds for BBC.Forgive me but it cannot be for a few more days. My sis in law is arriving for urgent medical tests and we will be busy.

And just to clarify to en earlier edit you posted, NO at the 2008 Christmas MBC written auction Liv did not purchase any of my birds, you see I would remember her giving me any money for birds. Plus she has a charming habit of keeping the breeders of her birds up to date with progress reports and while we have all heard in length about Renee and how almost 50% of her chicks produced Feather Dusters when paired to a Rob Dunstan cock, otherwise there has not been even a chirp. :laughter: So codswallop and moonshine to that theory.

with regard to this.............I am just trying to help you figure out about a bird you say is in S.A. and you said it either wasnt yours or you dont recall it. It has your legring on so it must be yours.

What do you think about my birds, eh?!

I think I need to come over to your house and teach you how to take pictures that arent fuzzy and arent rushed. So we can actually see your birds at their best. A that time I will also bring your other camera and mine and we can do a post on your birds for BBC.Forgive me but it cannot be for a few more days. My sis in law is arriving for urgent medical tests and we will be busy.

Yes, I am **** at taking good photos. :laughter: Don't worry about when, I still owe you lunch for your birthday and that is now some weeks ago.

with regard to this.............I am just trying to help you figure out about a bird you say is in S.A. and you said it either wasnt yours or you dont recall it. It has your legring on so it must be yours.

Forget it, I dealt with that when the 'new' buyer approached me. Problem solvered.

Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :laughter:

If you have asked for the pedigree of these birds and if you know how to work with sex linked varieties, you would not have this problem.

I have mentioned elsewhere that I had a couple of Normal Greens that when paired in 2008 produced 100% Normal Green chicks, imagine my surprise in 2009 when I discovered that the cocks in fact were Split cinnie ... Also I do recall reading elsewhere that Dave's Gearing boy was split Ino and this came as a surprise to its breeder as the Ino gene hadn't popped out in many generations.

 

okay as promised pics. It is a warming up to be a hot day and so they are not at their glorious best, also first time in a show cage - no matter

 

In 2009 breeding season I focused on Mask as the main feature I wanted to breed into my birds.

 

My Recessive Pied line that I worked so hard on last year is 100% Manno and Armstrong bloodlines or descendants, whichever way you want to look at it.

 

Here are a couple of examples-100% Manno Red runger bred in July 09.

 

Armstrong x Manno Blue runger bred September 09

 

I can see the Armstrong features, can you?

 

Unless I come up with a better plan these 2 will go together in August 2010.

 

Now for a few of the Blue boys. All related, 2 brothers and a cousin sharing an amazing Violet Jeff Lloyd boy as their Grandfather. Blue rungers just finally finished coming through their first moult.

 

Cobalt

(yes he is panting ... )

 

Violet

 

Dommie Pied

 

These boys are a couple of generations away from where I would like them to be. I find that with the second moult they will pop a blow but none of these are really possessing directional feather so while they will go back to the sisters they also need to go out to probably my Spangle line or even a cracker of a Normal Blue of Wayne Retzcalf's that I picked up at SWBC's written auction in December ... dunno, I will have to wait and watch them mature before making up my mind.

 

Renee you have done a good job improving the mask BUT now you need to work on the the overal bird, fro example those pieds look narrow in the head I think the expression the key hole look, You need now to focus on width of head plus feather (like directional etc) .

I could be wrong because they are only photos but it looks like they are lacking in shoulder.

It looks like they are straight up and down with narrow heads but that could be the heat too.

I have been honest and said what I thought so you need to get get a bird with power in the body plus width of head to improve your birds,

Renee you have done a good job improving the mask BUT now you need to work on the the overal bird, fro example those pieds look narrow in the head I think the expression the key hole look, You need now to focus on width of head plus feather (like directional etc) .

I could be wrong because they are only photos but it looks like they are lacking in shoulder.

It looks like they are straight up and down with narrow heads but that could be the heat too.

I have been honest and said what I thought so you need to get get a bird with power in the body plus width of head to improve your birds,

Oh I totally agree Julie. They have much better feather than you can see from these photos but a brother to the Rec Pied is slated for a gorgeous wide headed Greygreen girl for splits and I have another ripsnorter of a Spangle split Rec Pied for another of the sisters. Then all things equal they come back on each other in 2012. :laughter:

 

As for the Blue boys, well really they are way too young yet but I will not be surprised when over the next 6 months they fill out and broarden.

well that's good like to see them when they get older

It looks like they are straight up and down with narrow heads but that could be the heat too.

Hot days we are having make the birds look like this. Renee has some very good birds at home. I will try and help her photograph them and get them on here looking way better than these photos. :laughter:

I thought it may be the heat. :laughter:

Renee take the same pics again when Kaz comes over to help you and on a cool day as I would love to see your birds at their best.

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by splat

I thought it may be the heat. :laughter:

Renee take the same pics again when Kaz comes over to help you and on a cool day as I would love to see your birds at their best.

Actually these birds especially the Blue boys will be at their best come June I reckon ... they really are very young!

Besides I have come to terms with the uncertainty of the sex linked genes and how fricken impossible prior to actual breeding to know whether your cock is split or not.... :laughter:

If you have asked for the pedigree of these birds and if you know how to work with sex linked varieties, you would not have this problem.

I have mentioned elsewhere that I had a couple of Normal Greens that when paired in 2008 produced 100% Normal Green chicks, imagine my surprise in 2009 when I discovered that the cocks in fact were Split cinnie ... Also I do recall reading elsewhere that Dave's Gearing boy was split Ino and this came as a surprise to its breeder as the Ino gene hadn't popped out in many generations.

 

okay as promised pics. It is a warming up to be a hot day and so they are not at their glorious best, also first time in a show cage - no matter

 

In 2009 breeding season I focused on Mask as the main feature I wanted to breed into my birds.

 

My Recessive Pied line that I worked so hard on last year is 100% Manno and Armstrong bloodlines or descendants, whichever way you want to look at it.

 

Here are a couple of examples-100% Manno Red runger bred in July 09.

 

Armstrong x Manno Blue runger bred September 09

 

I can see the Armstrong features, can you?

 

Unless I come up with a better plan these 2 will go together in August 2010.

 

Now for a few of the Blue boys. All related, 2 brothers and a cousin sharing an amazing Violet Jeff Lloyd boy as their Grandfather. Blue rungers just finally finished coming through their first moult.

 

Cobalt

(yes he is panting ... )

 

Violet

 

Dommie Pied

 

These boys are a couple of generations away from where I would like them to be. I find that with the second moult they will pop a blow but none of these are really possessing directional feather so while they will go back to the sisters they also need to go out to probably my Spangle line or even a cracker of a Normal Blue of Wayne Retzcalf's that I picked up at SWBC's written auction in December ... dunno, I will have to wait and watch them mature before making up my mind.

 

Renee you have done a good job improving the mask BUT now you need to work on the the overal bird, fro example those pieds look narrow in the head I think the expression the key hole look, You need now to focus on width of head plus feather (like directional etc) .

I could be wrong because they are only photos but it looks like they are lacking in shoulder.

It looks like they are straight up and down with narrow heads but that could be the heat too.

I have been honest and said what I thought so you need to get get a bird with power in the body plus width of head to improve your birds,

 

 

 

I was going to make comment earlier, but thought you may get offended Renee.

 

I understand its a hot day and would love to see these birds on a cooler day. You are right they do lack directional feather but also lack head width, mask is okay in length, but narrow - therefore the bird lacks shoulder. Spots are okay. Height above the eye is lacking and they also look alittle beaky- maybe because its hot also.

 

I dont know the stock they are from and whether they develop late or not, but particularlly in cock birds i would like to see more features.

 

I'm wondering how these birds fit into your breeding plan Renee???

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by Heathrow

I'm wondering how these birds fit into your breeding plan Renee???

Once I cement the look I know they are carrying, and I reckon it will take a couple of generations, at this point they are slated to go back to my Dommie Pied line and the very best will go into one of my specialist varieties, like my Greywings, that is if I persevere with the latter. :laughter:

All my birds come from pet shops but 2 because I don't have any breeders around here that I know of. I have only owned 2 english budgies and Boofer was one. I think Boof was 11 years old when I got her.

So I was right Heathrow, sorry Renee but I thought, seems you have been honest I thought I should be too. And what I see is what Heathrow sees and he is a judge. I cop it from him from time to time with my birds but it's the only way to learn, right Heathrow Even though I might like not like it but it makes me think and my birds are improving all the time.

 

Like with my breeding program I keep strict records hard copy and computer copy and if I think I am doing good but blind to something or another Heathrow, Ian or CW will pull me into place.

So I was right Heathrow, sorry Renee but I thought, seems you have been honest I thought I should be too. And what I see is what Heathrow sees and he is a judge.

No worries! I am under no illusions but I am hopeful for their development.

But it is probably because they were hot when you took the photos'

All my birds come from pet shops but 2 because I don't have any breeders around here that I know of. I have only owned 2 english budgies and Boofer was one. I think Boof was 11 years old when I got her.

If you ever do decide to breed Show budgies remember that you buy the bird, not the breeder

I'm wondering how these birds fit into your breeding plan Renee???

Once I cement the look I know they are carrying, and I reckon it will take a couple of generations, at this point they are slated to go back to my Dommie Pied line and the very best will go into one of my specialist varieties, like my Greywings, that is if I persevere with the latter.

 

so are you saying your going to put rec pied to dom pied

thats only something you do with pet type breeding

or do you mean any normal chicks produced from these birds will be used in your dom line

 

 

i must say ren has gifted me a very nice in my eyes rec pied boy

he is fantastic in the fact that he is quiet broad so i do belive her birds will fill out (her pieds )

he is not her best hence why he was culled on but he is carrying a long mask and has produced some large chicks

 

and i stand by what i said that rec hen is lovely and i think she willbe very useful to you

 

and although some the other birds i got were culled out of my show plans

they are still here with me as i see nice feather in a few of them

 

they were culled out of my plan ren due to lack of shoulder and stance but other than that my grey boys getting better in the head so mabe they do bloom late as he is 08 and only just looking like i may use him in my albino with one of my own breed hens

 

 

ren im not sorry for what ive said but im glad you are now being nice to splat and kaz

i do think you have some nice birds but i still think you dont seem to have a very organized plan

but really

in the long run as long as you enjoy what your doing and have fun with it i suppose it does not matter if you keep paperwork or not or give it out

if your not willing to help others to the fullest of your personality then well thats your choice

 

everyone has bad experiences with people

specially when dealing with birds

i just hope you can chalk what ever made your buttons press as one thoughs experiances

 

i have been shitty and anoyed with the whole world of late so

i just was very anoyed to see you reacting and responding the way you did in this post

 

we are not the best of friends and we quiet often bump with our awnsers on this forum or just our remarks

but i know all in all you mean well and if push came to shove you would help out

as you did with the violet hen you gifted me ...no money passed hands

in the end i basically wound up with 8 of your birds for free

as you took a certain profetional veiw and if it was not for that

your bird would not of had all the vet assistance that she did (well she would have but i would have been and my children going with out for a month or so )

 

so you are a good person you do help when in respect to you birds and i guess i just wondered where all your anger was stemming from

 

i know if someone was to ask you for info on a bird you would be accommodating if you knew

and i mabe that has changed but i hope not look forward to some clear shots

its not hard to start keeping a short recorld they dont need to be pages long even just a list of chicks breed mutation and a ring under the main stud bird is better than wondering

i do that when lazy then when bored i do it properly