Head patch is often considered a sign of being split for recessive pied but it can also be present in spangles and birds from spangle breeding without the presence of recessive pied.

 

A bird can't be split for dominant pied they are either visually a dominant pied or the do not carry any dom pied genes.

 

A bird can be split for recessive pied - thats what recessive means - it takes 2 copies of the gene for a bird to be visually recessive pied, but the bird can carry one recessive pied gene and one normal gene and look like a visual normal bird. Thats why we call it being split for rec pied.

 

IF the chicks are split for recessive pied this could have come from either the mother or the father as this is a straight recessive variety and not sex linked so either sex can be split for recessive pied.

 

Opaline and cinnamon can only come from the dad as the females are either opaline or cinnamon or normal, they cannot be split for. Your hen is a normal spangle.

 

Males can carry the sex linked recessive gene and still appear to be normals so your boy, having breed opaline AND cinnamon is split for both as the mother does not have any cinnamon or opaline genes to donate to the youngsters.

 

If any cinnamon or opaline chicks appeared in this pairing then they MUST be hens. To get opaline or cinnamon cock birds the babies would have to get one opaline gene from dad and one from mum and we already know that mum does not have any! Because hens only need one of these genes to be visual the X gene bearing the opaline is donated by dad and the Y gene (which designates the bird a female but does not carry opaline or cinnamon) comes from mum.

 

I hope that makes sense..........

 

 

And Finnie is TECHNICALLY correct. Because normal is recesive to dominant pied you could technically consider it to be a dominant pied split for normal but the term we actually use is single factor dominant pied.

 

AND I need to check for more pages to these threads as I just end up repeating what others have already said - sorry Finnie!

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by nubbly5

so you can have dominant pied split for normal

 

Please explain finnie :laughter:

 

Nubbly's got this one:

And Finnie is TECHNICALLY correct. Because normal is recesive to dominant pied you could technically consider it to be a dominant pied split for normal but the term we actually use is single factor dominant pied.

Yeah, I know, I used incorrect terminology, kind of to make a point about normal being recessive to dominant.

AND I need to check for more pages to these threads as I just end up repeating what others have already said - sorry Finnie! No worries. It helped me to re read it how you have written it, anyway. Things are learned better when they are repeated often!

Thank you all so much for helping me get my head around this...

 

Nubbly.... I have printed off your reply and I will study it - it makes 100% sence -thanks for taking the time.....

 

okay, so I will explain the chicks...

 

The cinnamon and opaline chicks come from dad being split cinnamon/opaline.

The blue opaline chick is because dad is also split blue.

The head patches can mean these 2 chicks are possibly split recessive, although not all patches mean this on spangle birds????

 

I hope I got it....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The head patches can mean these 2 chicks are possibly split recessive, although not all patches mean this on spangle birds????

 

I hope I got it....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A head patch on a spangle is commonly seen and on a spangle does not necessarily mean split for recessive pied

 

 

The spangle often has a head spot on the back of its head and that is due to its dominant pied inheritance going way back into the first spangles bred using dominant pieds to acchieve spangles .

Edited January 29, 201015 yr by KAZ

Thanks Kaz - Nubbly and Finnie for your time...

The head patches can mean these 2 chicks are possibly split recessive, although not all patches mean this on spangle birds????

 

I hope I got it.... :hap:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A head patch on a spangle is commonly seen and on a spangle does not necessarily mean split for recessive pied

 

 

The spangle often has a head spot on the back of its head and that is due to its dominant pied inheritance going way back into the first spangles bred using dominant pieds to acchieve spangles .

 

This must be why we started discussing recessive pied for some reason. Because I went back to look at Dad at the beginning of this thread, and he is just normal looking.

Unless he has a pied spot on the back of his head, then I'm with Kaz, here. These spots are Spangle head spots. It doesn't seem as though mom or dad has any recessive pied to throw into the mix.

The spangle often has a head spot on the back of its head and that is due to its dominant pied inheritance going way back into the first spangles bred using dominant pieds to acchieve spangles .

 

Kaz, I am interested to know how you came by this information. In all my research material I have on hand there is no mention of Dom Pied be involved in the development of the Spangle. I remember being told for years that Spangles originated with in an aviary of Recessive Pieds. Even the ANBC Standard in the "Evolution of Colour Varieties" section does not support this. Cyril Rogers account of the Spangle in his book "World of Budgerigars" also makes no mention.

 

The head spot in Spangles is fairly common and has nothing to do with inheritence of any of the current available Pied types. The mutation itself is Leucistic in nature and involves similar process to Pieds.

The spangle often has a head spot on the back of its head and that is due to its dominant pied inheritance going way back into the first spangles bred using dominant pieds to acchieve spangles .

 

Kaz, I am interested to know how you came by this information. In all my research material I have on hand there is no mention of Dom Pied be involved in the development of the Spangle. I remember being told for years that Spangles originated with in an aviary of Recessive Pieds. Even the ANBC Standard in the "Evolution of Colour Varieties" section does not support this. Cyril Rogers account of the Spangle in his book "World of Budgerigars" also makes no mention.

 

The head spot in Spangles is fairly common and has nothing to do with inheritence of any of the current available Pied types. The mutation itself is Leucistic in nature and involves similar process to Pieds.

 

 

Another problem we are facing with some Spangles in their appearance with a Dominant Pied head patch. Although history tells us that Pieds were involved in the Spangle production, the Colour Standards has made no allowance for history unfortunately. So should Spangles with head patch win on the show bench because of the bird's quality?

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k_jones/clwyd...gle_variety.htm

 

 

Another anomaly is the appearance of Spangles with the head patch, similar to that of the Dominant Pied variety, further indicating that a link between those two varieties might exist.

 

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/specialist/spang/spghalib.html

 

There was another site with better info than this but was saved into my other PC that I cannot access right now.