Hi all!!

 

I have a few questions in regards to these chicks mutations.

This is Skipper and J.T's second round so no other birds are responsible.

 

Mum and Dad.

 

 

 

 

There are 6 chicks all together - 5 green spangles and 1 blue?

 

This is the Blue chick, it has white wings with blue markings? no black?

 

The "yellow" is not a poopy bum....just walking through the egg and biscuit!!

 

 

 

 

 

The other chick I am questioning seems to be cinnamon??

 

Does that mean mum or dad are split cinnamon?

 

 

 

I was cleaning out the nest box...so the little ones were only out for a bit....

 

 

 

I don't think I will ever "get" mutations........it just seems too hard!!

The blue chick is spangle opaline, which tells us that the dad is split opaline. And you're right, he's also split cinnamon as he has given a cinnamon chick. It seems to me that the blue chick is cinnamon as well. This chicks (the cinnamons) are girls, by the way.

Edited January 16, 201015 yr by Bettie

bettie is right with what shes said

 

but in my opinion the blue sky opaline spangle is not cinnamon as the markings look to dark in this picture but themn you said their was no marking so....

only u will know for sure as pics are so unpredictable

 

Looks cinnamon to me GB - but then you know what MY monitor is like

Thank You everyone.....

 

There is no colour on the blue chick other than white and blue......

 

Does this mean she is cinnamon or split?

Thank You everyone.....

 

There is no colour on the blue chick other than white and blue......

 

Does this mean she is cinnamon or split?

 

id go cinnamon then but really i can see marking weather they are cin or normal i cant tell but mate their their faintly on the feather tips look again

 

if it is hen which has to be as dads split Opaline then she cant be split cinn only cocks are split sex linkage genes

 

recessive genes both cocks and hens can be split

Edited January 17, 201015 yr by GenericBlue

Thank You everyone.....

 

There is no colour on the blue chick other than white and blue......

 

Does this mean she is cinnamon or split?

 

 

Coz she is spangle AND opaline spangle at that, any black (or brown) wing markings are reduced to very fine lines on the outside edge of each feather. With opaline spangles sometimes the black (or brown) wing markings are reduced to such a point as they are just about gone completely but if you look at the flight feathers you will see the faint darker lines edgeing the tips of the feather. Now IF this marking is brown - she is cinnamon, IF it is black she is not.

 

With both cinnamon and opaline being sex linked recessive genes a cock can be split for cinnamon or opaline (or both) but a he is either visual or she is normal - she can't ever be split for a sex linked mutation.

 

What GB said actually...........

Thank You everyone.....

 

There is no colour on the blue chick other than white and blue......

 

Does this mean she is cinnamon or split?

 

 

Coz she is spangle AND opaline spangle at that, any black (or brown) wing markings are reduced to very fine lines on the outside edge of each feather. With opaline spangles sometimes the black (or brown) wing markings are reduced to such a point as they are just about gone completely but if you look at the flight feathers you will see the faint darker lines edgeing the tips of the feather. Now IF this marking is brown - she is cinnamon, IF it is black she is not.

 

With both cinnamon and opaline being sex linked recessive genes a cock can be split for cinnamon or opaline (or both) but a he is either visual or she is normal - she can't ever be split for a sex linked mutation.

 

What GB said actually...........

 

you just put things so much better

they are just sex linked genes not recessive as well.

 

and he is also split for blue which is how you got the one blue chick.

they are just sex linked genes not recessive as well.

 

and he is also split for blue which is how you got the one blue chick.

 

You have this wrong. They are recessive genes and are located on the sex chromosomes and thus referred to as Sex-linked recessive.

Looks cinnamon to me GB - but then you know what MY monitor is like

 

 

Thank you so much everyone for trying to explain this for me........ :offtopic: but mutations are VERY hard........

 

The blue chick has no brown or black markings on the wings ...I know the picture looks as if there is around the flights and tail but there is nothing.......she is blue and white only, must be a shadow or something in the photo....I will take another picture tomorrow..

 

So only dad can be split cinnamon and opaline?....because I got a cinnamon chick (green)and an opaline/spangle chick (Blue)....??

There are 6 chicks all together - 5 green spangles and 1 blue?

Not sure if it was mentioned in a previous post but this chick isn't a spangle just a cinnamon opaline.

Looks cinnamon to me GB - but then you know what MY monitor is like

 

 

Thank you so much everyone for trying to explain this for me........ :offtopic: but mutations are VERY hard........

 

The blue chick has no brown or black markings on the wings ...I know the picture looks as if there is around the flights and tail but there is nothing.......she is blue and white only, must be a shadow or something in the photo....I will take another picture tomorrow..

 

So only dad can be split cinnamon and opaline?....because I got a cinnamon chick (green)and an opaline/spangle chick (Blue)....??

 

Well stuff me sideways, in each photo you have of her I can see markings as could GB. Please post some more, as it would be good to know if I am just seeing things or you are just not seeing things - both of which are entirely possible.

 

And yes Dad can be split for both cinnamon and opaline as they are both different sex linked recessive genes

I can see markings on my screen too, though as anne has said, maybe they're shadows. I can see faint fine cinnamon markings along the edge of the flights.

 

Would love to see more pics Not because I want to have a guess at mutations, but because I love spangles and this darling is just sooo gorgeous :offtopic:

Yep thats what I mean Amy. There are even a few very fine markings running through a couple of the small wing feathers close to the mantle which is very typical of opaline spangles.

Yep thats what I mean Amy. There are even a few very fine markings running through a couple of the small wing feathers close to the mantle which is very typical of opaline spangles.

 

Now that I've looked closer, I can see those too, very faintly though.

There ARE markings.....we can all see them very clearly :offtopic:

I can see them in the photo as well...I will post more pictures tomorrow....

 

Thanks everyone...

yea im not going crazy after all i thought kaz;s bug had finally done my head in

No GB your not going crazy....I am!!

 

I could see the markings in the photo but not on the bird... I need to take more notice if I am ever going to get this mutation thing right!

 

But yes again you guys are 100% correct, they are very fine brown lines.

 

The other chicks in this clutch are all greens....light and dark -and 2 have the patch on the back of thier heads, so does that mean they are split dominant/recessive as well??

 

Out of this clutch we have got, cinnamon - opaline - and split dominant/recessive....does all this come from dad?? Are all these chicks carrying all these mutations?

 

I think only the hens can carry opaline?

 

I hope my questions make sense....

No GB your not going crazy....I am!! I could see the markings in the photo but not on the bird... :question: I need to take more notice if I am ever going to get this mutation thing right!But yes again you guys are 100% correct, they are very fine brown lines.The other chicks in this clutch are all greens....light and dark -and 2 have the patch on the back of thier heads, so does that mean they are split dominant/recessive as well?? Out of this clutch we have got, cinnamon - opaline - and split dominant/recessive....does all this come from dad?? Are all these chicks carrying all these mutations?I think only the hens can carry opaline? I hope my questions make sense....

Anne, I'm not sure what you mean by split dominant/recessive.dominant pied and recessive pied are two different genes. And a dominant feature can't be split for. (Split for means the bird carries the gene, but you don't see the trait, because something more dominant is taking precedence. )

 

So you can have dominant pied split for normal, Normal split for recessive pied, and even dominant pied split for recessive pied. (Among other pied combinations.)

 

Remember, a bird has two copies of each gene, and what you see will depend on which copy is dominant over the other. (There can also be co-dominance. It gets very complicated, that's why they named it "genetics" LOL)

 

Opaline is different, because it is a sex-linked gene, found on the x chromosome. Hens only have one x-chromosome, so if they get the opaline gene, you will see it. They cannot "carry" a second x-linked gene, because they only have 1 x.

 

Males have 2 x chromosomes, so they can have 1 opaline and 1 normal. The normal is dominant, so it blocks the expression of the opaline. That's why cocks can "carry" or be "split for" opaline. For you to see opaline on a male, he can't have a copy of the normal gene. So he is basically "double factor" opaline.

 

A girl chick gets her only x chromosome from her dad, that's why the hens will be opaline.

 

I hope you are able to follow this

Edited January 28, 201015 yr by Finnie

Thanks for your reply Finnie....it made perfect sence.

 

But I didn't explain myself very good...

 

What I ment was....the chicks that have the patch, are they split dominant/ or recessive....

 

I researched last night on old threads and I am going with the chicks are split "dominant" as it is quite a large patch, not just a feather which would mean they were split "recessive".

 

I know that mums mum was dominant, so the chicks get this from mum? and the cinnamon and opaline from dad?

Thanks for your reply Finnie....it made perfect sence.

 

But I didn't explain myself very good...

 

What I ment was....the chicks that have the patch, are they split dominant/ or recessive....

 

I researched last night on old threads and I am going with the chicks are split "dominant" as it is quite a large patch, not just a feather which would mean they were split "recessive".

 

I know that mums mum was dominant, so the chicks get this from mum? and the cinnamon and opaline from dad?

 

 

There is no such thing as SPLIT DOMINANT. A dominant gene is just that...its there or it isnt...its a visible thing.

Edited January 28, 201015 yr by KAZ

Thanks Kaz....!!! that's it...I GIVE UP !!! :laughter:

 

I will NEVER get this genetics thing!!

Thanks Kaz....!!! that's it...I GIVE UP !!! :laughter: I will NEVER get this genetics thing!!

 

 

 

You know how GREEN is a dominant thing in budgies ...........right ?

A normal green budgie paired to a blue will give you green babies ( unless the green budgie is split to blue....i,e, had a blue parent ).

That is a dominant gene.............GREEN is. BLUE is a recessive gene.

The dominant mutations are:

* Greens (All Forms)

* Dominant Pieds

* Greys

* Clear-Flights

* Violets

* Spangles

* Yellow Faces (to the blue series)

* Crests

 

The recessive mutations are:

* Blues (All Forms)

* Recessive Pieds

* Fallows

* Whites

* Yellows

* Greywings

* Clearwings.

 

NOW...........show us photos of these spots you are talking about on the chicks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

so you can have dominant pied split for normal

 

Please explain finnie

Edited January 28, 201015 yr by KAZ