This is really two questions about 1 bird. He is about 3 years old and his cere used to be brilliant blue....and now it is brown...what is causing this and why?

 

And, can you help me figure out his mutation? Some of the pictures show some blue in him...this is just faulty lighting...he has no blue whatsoever...he is only goldy yellow, green and grey. Here are some pictures. I just noticed too that the spots below his cheek patches are a very faint grey too. His flight feathers and his tailfeathers are all a soft grey with a hint or tan sorta. Excuse the hackjob on his wings...the people I got him from were clippers and poor ones at that. Anyway...over to you real experts

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hfmn9i.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/wlwt45.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2lkwdic.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/213hkkn.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/xf4wtl.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/v4xpo7.jpg

 

I think I sized them alright....it's not my forte.

Edited January 6, 201015 yr by KAZ
pictures changed to links as they were HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue is natural in all greens, since green is actually a mix of yellow + blue and "blue" birds simply lack the ability to produce yellow pigment. He is a light green greywing.

 

Secondly, since he is definately a HE having been such for years and having long had a blue male cere then there are one specific cause I can think of. First would be testicular cancer (not unheard of but it would not be my first suspicion). Without being specific one can say blue ceres turning brown indicate a hormonal imbalance whatever the cause may be. It requires an avian vet to diagnose through various tests what the cause may be and this could be expensive. If he does not seem to be suffering, in pain, sickly or otherwise seem to have a degraded quality of life, it may be fine to just leave him.

 

Old cocks (over 5 years generally, sometimes not until over 7 or 8 years old in some cases) develop brown ceres as a sort of male menopause and can be lovely additions to your kindy cages as feeders.

Thanks Dean_NZ He seems very healthy, very active, chatters up a storm, eating well so will probably leave for now but closely monitor. So, for the greens...does the correct description of his mutation include anything about type 1 or 2 , is he YF or GF and would it include this? or is he just light green greywing.

 

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to record the info about my birds as acurately as I can.

Hes just a plain light green greywing. The YF only factor in to 'blue' budgies as there are different types of mutations that allow SOME yellow pigmentation. So greens are only ever greens, but some blues are referred to as yellow face type 1 or 2, golden face (single or double factor) etc.

im sure your right dean as i have no clue to telling diffrents of grey wing and clear wing but i thought clearwing just bad marked

 

how do you tell diffrents

i thought it was with the tail and cheek patches but now im unsure

im sure your right dean as i have no clue to telling diffrents of grey wing and clear wing but i thought clearwing just bad marked

 

how do you tell diffrents

i thought it was with the tail and cheek patches but now im unsure

 

 

GB, when I was studying cheek patches, I noticed that the standard for clearwing stated "bright violet" and the one for greywing was "pale violet". So I came to the conclusion that the clearwing gene affected the cheek patch the same way it affects the body color.

 

However, in the above pictures, a flash was used, and I cannot tell what shade of violet the cheek patch is. (It looks pretty bright.) DF said cheek patch was a very faint grey, which would indicate grey factor, but bird doesn't appear grey-green.

 

So maybe a picture without flash would help us see the cheek patch, but I think Dean is probably right anyway.

im sure your right dean as i have no clue to telling diffrents of grey wing and clear wing but i thought clearwing just bad marked

 

how do you tell diffrents

i thought it was with the tail and cheek patches but now im unsure

 

 

GB, when I was studying cheek patches, I noticed that the standard for clearwing stated "bright violet" and the one for greywing was "pale violet". So I came to the conclusion that the clearwing gene affected the cheek patch the same way it affects the body color.

 

However, in the above pictures, a flash was used, and I cannot tell what shade of violet the cheek patch is. (It looks pretty bright.) DF said cheek patch was a very faint grey, which would indicate grey factor, but bird doesn't appear grey-green.

 

So maybe a picture without flash would help us see the cheek patch, but I think Dean is probably right anyway.

 

His throat spots are very faint grey and his tail is soft grey. Cheek patches are a lighter blue/violet than on any of the blues I have.

 

Unfortunately, it's winter here so a picture without flash would probably be too dark to see anything.

okay, I would say lighter blue-violet cheek patches would indicate greywing, not clearwing. :hug:

Clearwing - strongly marked but still a clearwing.

 

These guys are often confused with greywings actually.

okay...so what we have here is a stalemate between the experts :hug:

Everybody weigh in...

 

Heavily marked light green clearwing OR Light green greywing

 

Hopefully we'll reach a consensus :hb: because I'd really like to refer to him as "my cute little light green (insert agreed upon mutation)" and not "hey you light green whatever you are" :hb:

 

In the event of a tie within this australian forum, I'll have to find a forum from another country and poll them too!!!! hahahahaha

Oh im not fussed. Without being there in person its hard to say either way, flash and cameras dont show true colour often. However I havent yet bred any clearwings or greywings so I will happily defer to nubbly. The whole 'dirty clearwing' or 'bright greywing' thing is horribly confusing, especially going on photos.

okay...so what we have here is a stalemate between the experts :cake:

Everybody weigh in...

 

Heavily marked light green clearwing OR Light green greywing

 

Hopefully we'll reach a consensus because I'd really like to refer to him as "my cute little light green (insert agreed upon mutation)" and not "hey you light green whatever you are" :hb:

 

In the event of a tie within this australian forum, I'll have to find a forum from another country and poll them too!!!! hahahahaha

 

 

Nubbly is a budgerigar JUDGE .......does that help ?? :hb:

okay...so what we have here is a stalemate between the experts :cake:

Everybody weigh in...

 

Heavily marked light green clearwing OR Light green greywing

 

Hopefully we'll reach a consensus because I'd really like to refer to him as "my cute little light green (insert agreed upon mutation)" and not "hey you light green whatever you are" :hb:

 

In the event of a tie within this australian forum, I'll have to find a forum from another country and poll them too!!!! hahahahaha

 

 

Nubbly is a budgerigar JUDGE .......does that help ??

 

Actually Yes! Can't get more expert than that! :hb: okay nubbly...what makes you say one from the other?

okay...so what we have here is a stalemate between the experts :cake:

Everybody weigh in...

 

Heavily marked light green clearwing OR Light green greywing

 

Hopefully we'll reach a consensus :hb: because I'd really like to refer to him as "my cute little light green (insert agreed upon mutation)" and not "hey you light green whatever you are" :hb:

 

In the event of a tie within this australian forum, I'll have to find a forum from another country and poll them too!!!! hahahahaha

 

 

Nubbly is a budgerigar JUDGE .......does that help ??

 

 

I was gonna say. Dount count my opinion, this is just my way of learning. And like Dean said, from pictures, at that.

id go with nubbly not just as shes a judge as shes usually correctas she breeds clearwings were all wrong sometimes but i did think clearwing badley marked myself so... i dont know to much about them but i do know that i been looking at a few of late and badley marked ones and they look same as yours so...

as we all say here its so hard to really be acurate with just pics and ones with flash even harder

when im stuck on a mutation i just grab all pics i can and books i can and just compair them all you kind of get use to what you breed so can tell mostly straight up even if not a good example of a mutation what is what

I think it's so special how you all share your vast knowledge so generously with us relative newbies...a heartfelt thanks to you all...from me! :emoticon112:

The bird is a heavily marked Light Green Clearwing.

 

As far as judges go. No offence to ol' nubbs, but not all judges in my opinion are experts at variety recognition. In fact some are just down right hopeless.

 

Blue is natural in all greens, since green is actually a mix of yellow + blue and "blue" birds simply lack the ability to produce yellow pigment. He is a light green greywing.

 

The green colour of the budgies is not produced by a mix of blue + yellow. There is fact no blue pigment in budgies. The only two pigments that exist are black (melanin) and yellow (psittacine). It is these two pigments plus feather structure which cause the various colours we seen in budgies. Knowing how these processes work helps one understand such things as 'dirty clearwings' etc.

Edited January 9, 201015 yr by RIPbudgies

wait Clearwings are meant to have full coloured tails, this one has a grey tail which is a sign for greywing.

Clearwings are "meant", according to the standard, to have "neutral" tails (and neutral explained to me as fingernail coloured/whitish)- usually determined by the tail quill. In reality many many clearwings are bred that do NOT meet the standard and many people find it confusing to tell between a badly marked clearwing and a greywing. From what I've seen, badly marked clearwings have hazy but still grey wing markings and often have strong grey tails so are difficult to tell apart.

 

And judges still get it wrong and still like to learn so the debate is great.