I was wondering if the yellow face is recessive or dominant? Does it take both cock and hen to have yellow face to appear?Oddly, the software I am using with a hen who is a yellow face, suggests that all the cocks will be split yellow face, and so will the hens with a pairing of only one blue mutant 1, but given it is a multiple allele I was wondering about when does it become visible? (and if the program I am using is confused)(No budgies were harmed, or washed with this question, so it shouldn't have to be deleted by moderators this time )

 

I also know that it is a dominant gene really. and that "The BS Colour Standards describe the Yellowface mutant 1 as any of the blue series birds with its mask been a lemon yellow. This lemon yellow will be visible in any of the white areas that the bird is masking such as the secondary tail feathers and on the wings and back of head. This also applies to all other blue series budgerigars with white coloration such as the albinos, Whitewings, Spangles (single and double factors), Dark-eyed clears, Whites and others. This is because of the dominance of the green to the blue and yellow to White." but am still confused by the split / noit split issue as I didn't think it was a sex linked gene.

Edited August 21, 200915 yr by **Liv**

Goldenface and yellowface type 2 are dominant mutations.

 

Yellowface type one is a composite of two seperate blue mutations, that when combined allow limited production of yellow pigment in the face.

(No budgies were harmed, or washed with this question, so it shouldn't have to be deleted by moderators this time :question: )

 

Snigger

Goldenface and yellowface type 2 are dominant mutations.Does that mean that YF type 1 is not dominant?Yellowface type one is a composite of two separate blue mutations, that when combined allow limited production of yellow pigment in the face.

Thanks Dean.I get that YF Type 1 has a yellow face, and that breeding 2 together will produce some white face birds. Still wondering if YF1 + normal produces some birds that are visually yellow faces. Or does it require YF1 + a specific colour, such a blue series bird as the second of the pair to produce a bird with a visually yellow face.

(No budgies were harmed, or washed with this question, so it shouldn't have to be deleted by moderators this time :rofl: )

Snigger

LOL Double Snigger :question:

yellow face only shows on a blue series bird - green is dom. to yellow face.

 

So to get young appearing as yellowface in a clutch you need to be using a blue ine bird as the partner - be that another yellow face or a white face.

In short yes, any yellowface type one paired to a normal will produce roughly 50% yellowface type 1 chicks.

Then why does the program say all chicks will be split??? :question:

Is there an error in the program??

i have a book that says the same info that all chicks will b split yf

i dont think its true as i have been breeding gf for long time pet types and i havent breed gf chicks from one of the white faced ofspring yet

and my pet types all blue based birds :question:

i say that is wrong

but i really dont know for sure but from experience

wrong

Yeah, I have the same experiences as you GB, I have never bred a YF from a white faced bird unless it has been DF YF. The fact that you can get DF YF tells me that its a dominant gene... not a recessive one :question:

Yeah, I have the same experiences as you GB, I have never bred a YF from a white faced bird unless it has been DF YF. The fact that you can get DF YF tells me that its a dominant gene... not a recessive one

 

it is dominant not recessive :rofl: so their you go it is wrong :question:

and as you say only the df yf breed the yf on so mabe thats what they ment mabe they ment split for when you get a df

All three yellow face types are dominant so mating a single factor yellow face of any type to a normal will produce about 50% yellow face chicks. The gene works the same way whether the birds are blue or green but of course most times you can't see if green birds have the mutation or not

 

Because a double factor type one yellow face is a white faced bird it is often claimed that the yellow face is split but this is not correct. When a double factor type one is mated to a normal it will produce 100% yellow face chicks. If the gene was just carried as split it would have to come from both parents and then would only produce about 25% unless one parent showed the mutation visibly

 

The other thing that should be remembered about yellow face types is that a bird can be more than one type. Generally golden face will mask either of the other types and type two will mask type one

 

I have also seen genetic programs that show yellow face as split, it shows that the writer of the program did not have a proper understanding of how the gene works

Its not dominant or recessive technically - the breeding pattern is exactly the same as a full body coloured greywing.

 

There are 2 seperate 'normal' blue mutations on different parts of the same gene, both of which give you a 'normal blue' - nothing to do with yellowface single, double, split or anything. Both mutations are recessive to green which is the fully functional gene.

 

Lets (just for the sake of this example) call the seperate blue mutations fault 1 (f1) and fault 2 (f2).

 

An f1f1 bird is a normal blue, carrying 2 defective yellow pigment genes.

An f2f2 bird is a normal blue, carrying 2 defective yellow pigment genes, however the defect is on a DIFFERENT part of the same gene.

 

When you mate f1f1 with f2f2 you produce 100% f1f2 birds. Here is where the yellow comes in - the fact that the defects are on different parts of the gene means that together, they are able to partially compensate for the fault of the other. This compensation allows for some partial production of a weak yellow pigment limited to the face and tail, sometimes the wings. The genetics calculators do not seem to understand this and always get it wrong.

 

Now to hopefully provide a helpful cross-example. Clearwing is recessive to normal (just as blue is recessive to green), and greywing is recessive to normal. Clearwings are (lets just say) clrwing/clrwing and greywings are grywng/grywng. The point im trying to make here is that clearwing and greywing are both dilute mutations, but they have seperate names. Blue fault 1 and blue fault 2 are both seperate 'blue' mutations but because they APPEAR the same, we dont give them different names (but we should).

 

It is only when you mix clearwing and greywing that you get a interaction that produces a bird different to both clearwing and greywing - the two genes compensate and produce a stronger coloured dilute, just in the same way both blue mutations compensate to produce a blue with some yellow pigment. So technically there is no such thing as a double factor yellowface type 1, because it is just a 'normal blue' of a seperate mutation to 'the other' normal blues. This is why 'double factor' yellow face type 1's have white faces - they arent doubled up on yellow face, they are doubled up on defective genes that produce the same problem (lack of yellow) as the other mutation. Neither of them are the 'yellow' gene, they are no more or less yellow on their own. Its only when combined with the other mutation that EITHER of them can make yellow pigment.

Yes better to think of them as a "removal of yellow" gene. this is also why double factor golden faces have way less body suffusion. In single factor golden faces, faces and bodies carry a lot of gold yellow pigment (but still less than that of normal greens), when the golden face factor is doubled, more yellow is removed and the body of the bird is almost yellow suffusion free with yellow remaining only on the face.

 

The confusing part of this argument for me though is that it only appears in the blue series bird. If you breed yellowfaced birds with green/green you do not get any yellow faced birds so for me it still makes more sense to think of them as yellow added........... But if you breed them to blue/blue you get 50% yellow face.

Edited August 22, 200915 yr by nubbly5

Thanks everyone for a very thorough answer. Now I understand the program I am using is wrong, but with a green bird the colour is not visible, and with a blue series bird it is. Happy, and will see if I can modify the program to make it dominant somehow.Thanks again!(Oh, Liv is going to post me a "I told you so" reply no doubt)She is far too clever... I'll just wait for her to gloat that she was right. (oh dear)

hehe, yes this was a heated discussion in our house hold for many times when entering records.... and yes, it is nice to be RIGHT :sad:

Just trying to catch up on some threads and came across this one.

 

My question is....What is the program you have been using.

 

The term split for Yellowface is correct. Yellowface (all mutants) and blue are recessive to Green and so are designated split.

Everyone excepts the term Green/Blue, right. So since Yellowface and Blue are alleles (variations of one gene) it therefore follows that designation Yellowface as a split is indeed correct. If you insist on saying that Yellowface cannot be designated as split then you cannot also use that designation for Blue!

The understand starts with the green normal bird. What we see as green is infact a blue yellow bird.

 

The blue gene does not make the bird more blue it removes the yellow pigment cause the blue to remain. For some reason the Yellow factor stops the yellow pigment to be removed from the head and partially from the body (more to the frustration of the yellowface show breeders) Ther grey factor over rides the blue gene causes a yellowface grey.

 

Yellowface face being a dominant gene can occur in double factor. A double factor appears to resemble a normal green bird, but will give 100% yellowface birds.