September 22, 200915 yr I gave up on the kitty litter and dont use it in nests anymore. It damaged eggs and dried things out a little too much.
September 22, 200915 yr Author I gave up on the kitty litter and dont use it in nests anymore. It damaged eggs and dried things out a little too much. I may end up using straight concaves for eggs, switch to oats as the chicks hatch, and then once they have all hatched i might use a mix of oats and litter. I think you are right about them being a bit TOO absorbant.
September 22, 200915 yr Here are some quick pics:Augren and viola round 1 - 3 of their five chicks (the other two are albinos so yeh, you know what they look like lol).I will be keeping the large violet sky blue hen on the left (look how skinny her brother on the right looks by comparison lol). Then there is a normal cobalt split opaline cock i will be selling, and a YF1 SF violet cobalt cock split opaline i will be keeping. I will sell the two albino hens from this round too.In the next nest we have one foster chick from a feeder pair, and the first chick from augren and viola's second round. There is one more egg from augren and viola to hatch, plus they have two of their own AI eggs being incubated. So eggs/chicks from 3 nests in the one box lol.And here are the AI babies who wouldnt exist if not for AI! The youngest one you can just see amidst the scrum hatched late yesterday when i checked just before it got too dark.. I thought the hen was eating her baby at first, she had a bloody face and i could see blood coming out of the egg membrane. But before i intervened, she proceded to eat the egg shell right around the baby and then all of a sudden there was a baby! Seems to be doing well, and has been fed already. One remaining AI egg to hatch here, and i added an infertile egg to stop mum sitting too heavy just in case.And yes i am trialing a mix of kitty litter and rolled oats this season. I remember reading somewhere that kitty litter can be a bit too absorbant and may dry eggs out? Anyone used it before? I am loving the solid grippy base it provides and its very absorbant, i use the oats to add a softer touch to the base.I use the kitty litter, a mix of white hard bits & the extruded rice hulls,I put a few of the rice ones,in water to soak up abit,just before the eggs start to hatch,only say about 10 pallets,just sprinkle arouund the eggs,my nest bowls are icecream containers,I have not had a problem with hard shells. I gave up on the kitty litter and dont use it in nests anymore. It damaged eggs and dried things out a little too much.Are they haveing a dance partyin the nest if theyare damageing the eggs.
September 22, 200915 yr Well Done Dean! Congratulations on your AI bird and all your little chickies and fertile eggs! Well I use kitty litter exclusively in the nest boxes and I haven't had the issues others have, so I guess it's a personal choice thing.
September 22, 200915 yr I gave up on the kitty litter and dont use it in nests anymore. It damaged eggs and dried things out a little too much.Are they haveing a dance partyin the nest if theyare damageing the eggs. No..........but the kitty litter I had , had a lot of sharp bits in it.Well Done Dean! Congratulations on your AI bird and all your little chickies and fertile eggs! Well I use kitty litter exclusively in the nest boxes and I haven't had the issues others have, so I guess it's a personal choice thing. Weird..............I distinctly recall seeing you with a carload of ZEOLITE and you saying you werent using kitty litter anymore.
September 22, 200915 yr Weird..............I distinctly recall seeing you with a carload of ZEOLITE and you saying you werent using kitty litter anymore. Yes I filled up all the nest boxes at the beginning of this Breeding season with Zeolite AND I also trialled using sand in the bottom of the breeding cabinets .... didn't like either of them and promptly went back to using kitty litter for both nest boxes and bottom of breeding cabinets! And Why? I hear you asking! Well in my experience the zeolite was a lot more expensive and funnily enough I had a couple of dented eggs with it and it soiled very quickly - I had been told to wash it and replace but I found that a hassle. As for the sand, well that was a disaster, it blew around the Breeding room and clogged up the seed dishes. Edited September 22, 200915 yr by KAZ
September 22, 200915 yr And yes i am trialing a mix of kitty litter and rolled oats this season. I remember reading somewhere that kitty litter can be a bit too absorbant and may dry eggs out? Anyone used it before? I am loving the solid grippy base it provides and its very absorbant, i use the oats to add a softer touch to the base. Hi Dean I found that kitty litter dried out the nest too much and was too hard on the eggs. DIS could be a real indication that the egg membrane has dried out too much and is difficult for the chicks to penetrate. I use pine shavings in the nest unless the nest gets sweaty with large almost fully grown chicks THEN I will put a solid layer of kitty litter in to absorb the moisture and place a layer of pine shavings on top for comfort and warmth.
September 22, 200915 yr Author Well, the last of the AI chicks hatched some time late last night or early this morning Now have 5 little AI babies in a foster nest with some excellent parents. I couldnt be happier! In the nest with the parents of the AI chicks, the second chick of augren and viola's second round just hatched - another little albino hen. So there are now three chicks in that nest doing well so im considering letting the AI pair raise their own eggs next round, but i think the foster pair in the other nest are better feeders still - the chicks seem to be sprouting much faster so i'll keep that in mind. In 2 more days augren and viola will see the first of the seven remaining eggs in their nest (it will be their 3rd chick from the second round, but the first that will hatch in their nest). I forgot to mention that just before I started my 5 week rural placement i purchased 4 new birds. They have been in a flightable quarantine while i was away, and they've been in the aviary for 2 weeks. They went through a moult during quarantine and were all clear before going into the aviary, and have since been looking in every nook and cranny, so i suspect they are ready to go down and i've put them together as two pairs and placed them in breeding cabinets to see how we go. Should have some eggs within 10 days with any luck, although i think they are first time pairs so we'll see how we go.
September 28, 200915 yr Author Baby 5 died overnight, and was found smushed under the biggest baby the next morning. Perhaps thats why it died >_> An untimely reminder of why clutch size can be rather problematic when you have monstrous babies stomping around with new hatchlings in the same nest. Alas. I have started swapping babies all over the place in an attempt to keep large chicks together and small chicks together and another nest where all remaining 7 eggs are hatching, get fed for a few days and then move to the intermediate nest. Using this method will stagger the hatchling size and prevent any further baby mashing. I am able to tell which chick is which so all good.Another thing is sorta worrying me. Im PRETTY sure that AI chick 4 and another albino chick hatched on the same day in different nests. They are now together in the same nest but to me... AI chick #4 appears red instead of pink, and i have this weird feeling it isnt growing. It has TINY feet and the albino is now much larger than it. I cant really be certain though because i just had this nagging hunch and now im going to take daily photos.Anyway, here are pics. Remember you can click the link below each picture for a much larger hi-definition version of the same picture. AI babies a few days ago: Click here for a larger picture Click here for larger picture I LOVE the oldest chick. Im pretty sure she is a hen, and i suspect she will be a grey green. Every time i check the nest i find her on top of the other chicks, she is very calm, looks straight up at me and never lets her eyes off of me. She seems so calm/intelligent and gentle. Reckon she is gonna be a stunner :)The next youngest also appears to be a hen, and the 3rd AI chick appears to be a cock. I have swapped the sole surviving chick laid by the foster parents back into their own nest, which is the other green chick you see in this nest which is a cock as far as i can tell. Two white ceres, two pinky red ceres. AI babies today: Click here for larger picture It was so cute. I opened the box this morning and they were alllll asleep. The oldest one was on top as usual, and she opened her eyes, looked up at me and just kept looking while the others dozed away. She is so gentle Weird..............I distinctly recall seeing you with a carload of ZEOLITE and you saying you werent using kitty litter anymore.Yes I filled up all the nest boxes at the beginning of this Breeding season with Zeolite AND I also trialled using sand in the bottom of the breeding cabinets .... didn't like either of them and promptly went back to using kitty litter for both nest boxes and bottom of breeding cabinets! :ohmygod: And Why? I hear you asking! Well in my experience the zeolite was a lot more expensive and funnily enough I had a couple of dented eggs with it and it soiled very quickly - I had been told to wash it and replace but I found that a hassle. As for the sand, well that was a disaster, it blew around the Breeding room and clogged up the seed dishes. Just a question for anyone who uses kitty litter. I was going to pick some up at the store today - but it said "kitty litter - made from new zealand zeolite". And i remembered zeolite from this post, but i wasnt sure if it was recommended or if it was bad? So are kitty litter and zeolite the same thing? Or is zeolite a cheap alternative that isnt as good? Is good kitty litter made from some other substance? Edited September 28, 200915 yr by Dean_NZ
October 6, 200915 yr Author Just a question for anyone who uses kitty litter. I was going to pick some up at the store today - but it said "kitty litter - made from new zealand zeolite". And i remembered zeolite from this post, but i wasnt sure if it was recommended or if it was bad? So are kitty litter and zeolite the same thing? Or is zeolite a cheap alternative that isnt as good? Is good kitty litter made from some other substance? Anyone able to answer that one? Also, there was a cold snap and over 2 days I lost 4 chicks New Zealand is going through a VERY un-seasonal cold snap right now. Cant find my battery charger so pics arent very forthcoming right now hehe
October 6, 200915 yr Just a question for anyone who uses kitty litter. I was going to pick some up at the store today - but it said "kitty litter - made from new zealand zeolite". And i remembered zeolite from this post, but i wasnt sure if it was recommended or if it was bad? So are kitty litter and zeolite the same thing? Or is zeolite a cheap alternative that isnt as good? Is good kitty litter made from some other substance? Anyone able to answer that one? Also, there was a cold snap and over 2 days I lost 4 chicks New Zealand is going through a VERY un-seasonal cold snap right now. Cant find my battery charger so pics arent very forthcoming right now hehe Just seen your question, sorry Dean for not getting back to you sooner! The Fussy Cat Litter (brand name) I use white and is made from Attapulgite (at least that's what it says on the bag), I found the Zeolite I purchased earlier in the year to be a reddish colour and smaller particles. The Zeolite was much more expensive than the Cat Litter. Sorry to hear about your chickies, have you considered running a heater in the breeding room for those very cold nights?
October 6, 200915 yr dean have you thought of just drapping a warm blanket or a warm towel over breeding cages at night then run tarp over that keeps warmth in over night i did this when i lost chicks due to cold and it worked wonders just have to remember to take off in morn lol
October 6, 200915 yr Author Unfortunately the cold snap hit us unexpectadly overnight which is when i lost the first two chicks. The day was warm and then a second cold snap and rainy day come the next day which is when i found the next two dead. Three newly hatched from the same nest and one sickly one from another nest. But i expected the sickly one to die anyway - it was half the size of a chick of the same age and it always appeared to be weird. It had a large belly, red skin (not pink, very red) and a large purple abdomen. It survived for about 2 weeks but grew very slowly.
October 21, 200915 yr Author I am really terrible at maintaining and updating these breeding journals. My apologies! The AI chicks are looking fab It is interesting to note the size difference between the two grey greens and the normal dark green. I will be observing future clutches to see if this is a common theme as the grey greens seem superior in general - especially size to the green. I currently have other chicks coming up including a sky blue, a SF violet sky blue, a cobalt and a SF violet cobalt which will be handy for comparitive colour shots. Umm the weird purple/red chick died. I think i might have mentioned that earlier. Oh, another crested hen has shown up in round two of the same nest as the first one - I suspect its from the hen as the cock has had 12 chicks last year with no crests to another hen, and this hen he is now with this is her first time breeding - one female has had a crest in each round. This second female isnt as widely developed as the first - she has a solid crest on the left of her cere and a weaker version on the right side however the circular twist and feather disturbance is very clearly present. The first chick with the stronger and more even crests (bilaterally - meaning even size/shape/location on both sides) is now beginning her adult moult - looks to be moulting especially hard around the crested areas. Photos to come...
October 21, 200915 yr I am really terrible at maintaining and updating these breeding journals. My apologies! The AI chicks are looking fab It is interesting to note the size difference between the two grey greens and the normal dark green. I will be observing future clutches to see if this is a common theme as the grey greens seem superior in general - especially size to the green. I currently have other chicks coming up including a sky blue, a SF violet sky blue, a cobalt and a SF violet cobalt which will be handy for comparitive colour shots. Umm the weird purple/red chick died. I think i might have mentioned that earlier. Oh, another crested hen has shown up in round two of the same nest as the first one - I suspect its from the hen as the cock has had 12 chicks last year with no crests to another hen, and this hen he is now with this is her first time breeding - one female has had a crest in each round. This second female isnt as widely developed as the first - she has a solid crest on the left of her cere and a weaker version on the right side however the circular twist and feather disturbance is very clearly present. The first chick with the stronger and more even crests (bilaterally - meaning even size/shape/location on both sides) is now beginning her adult moult - looks to be moulting especially hard around the crested areas. Photos to come... When we had a breeder talk to us about AI and give a demonstration, he said that he found the AI bred cocks tended to take longer to develop. He has been using AI for 5 years or so now, and that was his general finidings. He said it was strange, and he could not explain it, but he did not put AI bred cocks down until they were fully mature - at 2 years of age.
October 22, 200915 yr Author Funny you should say that dave, because the grey greens are hens and the smaller normal green is a cock.
October 22, 200915 yr Do not depair about his size. Give him some time and you might be pleasantly suprised.
November 21, 200915 yr Author Thought you all might like to see the second round of Augren and Viola. She laid 10 eggs, 1st was DIS, the other 9 hatched, the last died during a freak cold snap (coldest unseasonal weather in 30 years). Here is an overview of the family tree (thanks to Nev for the idea). Click here for larger version of the above picture Here is each baby in order of birth starting with Baby 1 - A 3437 (Ring numbers) a SF Violet cobalt cock split opaline (possibly also split ino). He is a definate keeper, very nice baby considering the average show quality of his parents. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 2 - Unrung albino hen masking opaline (could be masking violet, sky blue or cobalt as well, i suspect she is just a normal sky blue opaline under that ino). Another nice girl who Im keeping because there were so few females produced. Her ino sister from the previous round was better, should have kept her instead. Oh well. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 3 - A 3438 SF Violet cobalt cock split for opaline (possibly spit ino). May keep him simply because he is violet, wait until he goes through his adult moult to be sure. He is a nice bird though.. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 4 - A 3439 YF1 Cobalt cock split for opaline (possibly split ino). May sell this fellow, but i'll wait to see how he fills out after his adult moult. He stands well. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 5 - A 3440 Sky blue cock (possibly fathered by another male I transferred a semen sample from around this time...). Definate keeper, excellent size and mask and spots etc. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 6 - A 3441 SF Violet opaline sky blue hen. A real stormer, absolute beauty this one. She is 10x better than either parent and is mentioned in another post (about the 'crests' she and her sister possess, I.E directional feather) Click here for a larger version of the above picture Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 7 - A 3442 SF Violet cobalt cock split for opaline (and possibly ino). Not bad, might keep him simply because he is a violet. Wait for his adult moult. Click here for larger version of the above picture Baby 8 - A 3443 YF2 sky blue split opaline. Gorgeous boy, but show wise he doesnt really stand out for any particular feature. If i keep him it will be because he is YF2. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Im commenting on these birds purely from a show perspective. If I was to view them colourwise I would never sell any babies because I would keep them all! I think they are all gorgeous! Hope you enjoyed seeing them!
November 21, 200915 yr lookin' good Dean. Love the idea of a Family Tree. I'm gonna do that with mine on Geni or Family Tree maker. lol. That rocks. :question:
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