hi well for the past 6 months i have been looking for two split lacewing cocks

finally i found two with the quality i like

but im not sure i want to breed them into my line

(which they are ment to be starting lol)

 

i have two really nice hens and i wanted to make sure that their quality was bettered which these boys would do but im not sure if they would be a wize move as they do not fly

 

when i veiwed them i veiwed them in a show cage so i was not to know

the other birds in the stud were all fine healthy and beautiful

and the peronts ment to be very good birds dad won deplomer not that that means anything to me as i choose my birds based on their quality then their genetic background

i didnt see them due to the birds were brought down from a fair way for me to veiw and buy if i wanted

 

apart from them not flying the are perfict

 

 

 

 

i was just wondering what would others do ?????

im very happy with the birds but i would have never brought them if i knew they could not fly

and i feel it would be insulting the breeder if i told him that i never relized they couldnt fly and did not want them

so i will keep them and just learn never to buy anything unless i see it flying never just asume that as it overall aperiace is superb that its able to fly

i was so happy now im so dishartened

thing is i dont even belive it was a deliberate act as alot of the breeders around breed from theses birds and the chicks are fine with just the odd none flyer

but i dont want even one to surfuse in my flock so i will not be using them after all and my serch will continue for two perfict split to lacewing boys

they dont look at all to be french moult birds even the feathers look good but for some reason just cant fly

they not to heavy i have heavyer birds i thought mabe as they were in small cage for long period they only just young and havent been able to have much flight time i dont belive

 

other opinions please what would you do

and what should i do with them as it depreses me seeing them just sitting on ground

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by Elly

Maybe just giving them the space where they can practice and get some confidence will help. If there is no physical reason they can't then maybe time will be the cure. If your happy with them otherwise then don't give up maybe at a later date do a test breeding with them to see if they pass on their problem.

I'm no expert though, but seeing as you already have them now maybe trying something is better then feeling you've wasted your money. :rofl:

Hope you get the answers you need.

They're very handsome birds though GB.

Maybe just giving them the space where they can practice and get some confidence will help. If there is no physical reason they can't then maybe time will be the cure. If your happy with them otherwise then don't give up maybe at a later date do a test breeding with them to see if they pass on their problem.

I'm no expert though, but seeing as you already have them now maybe trying something is better then feeling you've wasted your money. :rofl:

Hope you get the answers you need.

They're very handsome birds though GB.

 

thank you dek

yes i belive them to be or i would not have brought them

i dont feel i wasted money just guess i like to see my birds flying around chatting up the girls and seems a bit sad if they dont ever fly

i have them in a 2 meter high by 90 x 1 meter aviry at moment

so fingers crossed

they seem to be frightened by the room and openness as my quarrinteen room has clear roof they were in clossed shed with lights

do you think i should place one or two flying birds in with them to mabe incorage them or just wait till they can go in aviry

one thing the are is healthy so wouldnt be risking any sickness being passed on but would use none breeder for the incoragement flyers what you think

Yeah that sounds good. Maybe a couple of girls to encourage them as long as you feel comfortable with doing that.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and them.

Yeah that sounds good. Maybe a couple of girls to encourage them as long as you feel comfortable with doing that. :rofl:

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and them.

 

yeah i got some that are just aviry birds may just do that cheers i do feel comptibal with it as the breeders birds are all very healthy and well looked after so......

 

she goes to aviary to choose to nice girlly friends for the boys

good idea dek 21

Thats such a hard call gb! My best bird has a lame wing and has never shown any interest in females. He's also my most expensive bird and the least likely to breed but i just cant give up on him!

 

At first i was sad, but every time i see him he looks so nice and it pleases me to see him in the aviary. Those two boys are stunners, and i while i would be dissapointed to realise they cant fly too, i would not be so quick to give up on them and i'd definately try my best to breed them :doh:

 

If they dont fly in the aviary, they may be perfectly suited to a breeding cage. Non-flyers can still breed if you place square perches just an inch or so off the ground, and have a nest box with a grate on the front for the hen to grip and climb up into the nest box cos if you have a perch by the nest hole, the hen may sit there and leave the cock down below. It also may pay to block off the nest hole for 3-7 days and once you see them mating or even bonding then open it up and cross your fingers.

 

They are stunners :glare: I hope things work out for you!

Hey GB

 

If they are healthy and happy there is absolutely no reason not to use them if they cannot fly. I have never seen a non-flyer pass on non-flying - as it's usually due to injury or perhaps french moult as youngster (but they don't look like runners to me so I doubt that's it). As long as they can mate, there is no reason why you can't use them this year to establish your line and then either cull them out or continue on as you choose.

 

I don't like non-flyers in my aviary either but I'm certainly not above using a quality one to start a line or add a feature.

Hey GB

 

If they are healthy and happy there is absolutely no reason not to use them if they cannot fly. I have never seen a non-flyer pass on non-flying - as it's usually due to injury or perhaps french moult as youngster (but they don't look like runners to me so I doubt that's it). As long as they can mate, there is no reason why you can't use them this year to establish your line and then either cull them out or continue on as you choose.

 

I don't like non-flyers in my aviary either but I'm certainly not above using a quality one to start a line or add a feature.

 

well i have seen cases of french moult and french moult survivors and they do not look like that to me either

what else can cause this

could it just be that they very big birds and haven't had flying room

i mean they could of im not certain

they seem very frightened when ever i go near them also im afraid they may have a heart attack on me

 

i guess it wont hurt to just do one clutch

and if by chance it has any runners i will not breed them again

 

also will put a note on chicks file that they breed from runner

that way if any ever show up i will know what the cause was

and i will just keep a vidgalent record of their chicks and their heritage on and on year after year each generation

 

but what if one does pop up in say two three generations

then thats my fault for breeding with a bird with bad genetics in first place

 

i know they very good birds and would defenently give me exellent rezults but at how many birds in the futures cost of flightless ness :glare:

i really need some strong evidance to show me this is a safe and okay practice

if anyone else has breed simular birds please can i here your experiances with out comes in the future generations please

Hey GB

To start with i wouldnt call them runners because they do have their flight feathers. I also have a bird that is like yours i thought i might just give it a go the first egg is due to hatch tomorrow i will let you know how the babys go.

Are these cocks split for lacewing?

 

They are very beautiful birds.

 

There is a good debate about breeding runners I am not sure if the post was started by feathers but I remember he asking or putting input into the conversation you may want to search for it.

Hey GBTo start with i wouldnt call them runners because they do have their flight feathers. I also have a bird that is like yours i thought i might just give it a go the first egg is due to hatch tomorrow i will let you know how the babys go.

yes you are compleatly right blake they have all feathers and like i say no sighn what so ever of ever being french moulters and i feel the breeder would not of sold me birds he did not think were usable this much i do know how ever i do tend to always think the best of every one and who really knows anybody :glare: im not even sure if he even is awear they dont fly as as i said they were brought down for me to look at and have been sitting idol for some months in wait i was under the impreshion the birds were no longer for offer but the breeder was waiting on me to veiw them so wires were crossed wrong leaving birds caged in small sale cage for some time now they are hoppers :doh: not runners one can fly about one meter distance and 2 inches hich off ground then hopped as i got them out in the shed to see if they could fly at all or what the other one he just hopped around everywhere i would be interested to hear your outcome thank you blake as this is a big step for me i was trying to get the best possable mate for my lacewing hens and being sisters i thought fantastic buy two non related brothers for my sisters who could ask for better start and they are magnificent boys at that they are moulting at moment and their tails are growing in fine so.... i dont know the awnser or the reason for it -_

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

Are these cocks split for lacewing?

 

They are very beautiful birds.

 

There is a good debate about breeding runners I am not sure if the post was started by feathers but I remember he asking or putting input into the conversation you may want to search for it.

 

?

Are these cocks split for lacewing?

 

They are very beautiful birds.

 

There is a good debate about breeding runners I am not sure if the post was started by feathers but I remember he asking or putting input into the conversation you may want to search for it.

 

?

 

yes they are elly

and very nice lacewings in the stud they are from some of the biggest nicest wide headed hens ive seen

i will look it up thanks although not to good at finding way around here still :glare: :doh:

i was not being rude and not responding your post was not up when i responded to blake im very slow at doing this took one hour to post one post once

That is okay but they don't look like Lacewings.

 

In the Green Series a Lacewing Body is yellow and the wing coloring is cinnamon., plus the cere of a lacewing cock stays pink it does not change to blue.

 

That is why I asked if you meant split.

 

They look like Opaline Grey Greens

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by Elly

That is okay but they don't look like Lacewings.

 

In the Green Series a Lacewing Body is yellow and the wing coloring is cinnamon., plus the cere of a lacewing cock stays pink it does not change to blue.

 

That is why I asked if you meant split.

 

They look like Opaline Grey Greens

 

yes they are opaline grey greens / lacewing

okay are you confirming they are Opaline GreyGreens split for lacewing or are you saying they are Opaline Grey Green visible lace wings (sorry to be a PAIN but trying to understand what you mean), because I don't see visible Lacewing in them at all.

 

Is that what you mean when you put the / as in that equals split? If so let me know and I will change it in your title to the word split or you can if you like because that is more understandable for the novice, the way it iw worded it makes them look like you mean they are lacewings (to some of us not all :glare:, maybe it is just me :doh:)

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by Elly

okay are you confirming they are Opaline GreyGreens split for lacewing or are you saying they are Opaline Grey Green visible lace wings (sorry to be a PAIN but trying to understand what you mean), because I don't see visible Lacewing in them at all.

 

Is that what you mean when you put the / as in that equals split? If so let me know and I will change it in your title to the word split or you can if you like because that is more understandable for the novice, the way it iw worded it makes them look like you mean they are lacewings (to some of us not all , maybe it is just me )

 

okay sorry darl my bad

these birds are

 

opaline grey green split lacewing cocks

 

they are not visually lacewing they are geneticlly lacewing

as it is a sex linked gene they will produe lacewings for me

 

if put with a lacewing hen i will get

lacewing cocks 25 per cent

lacewing hens 25 per cent

normal hens 25 per cent

and normal split lacewing cocks 25 per cent

 

if with a normal hen (not lacewing)

i will get

normal cocks 25 per cent

normal split lacewing cocks 25 per cent(wont know untill breeding )

normal hens 25 per cent

 

theirs an idea thanks elly i should test breed them with a norm hen as to not go jeprodizing my lacewing line

see what i get their first thanks :hug:

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

okay sorry darl my bad

these birds are

 

opaline grey green split lacewing cocks

 

they are not visually lacewing they are geneticlly lacewing

as it is a sex linked gene they will produe lacewings for me

 

okay that is what I came to conclude, I did change it in the title for you :hug: too and in the post because not everyone knows that this symbol / means split, so when we are talking split it is better to spell out the whole word vs just putting the /, I hope that makes sense.

I agree with Blake too. These as I said don't look like runners (still having flight feathers) and to be honest I've had runners that have bred and never passed on french moult to youngsters anyway - my conclusion is that they HAD been affected when they were young but were no longer shedding virus so their own babies were unaffected.

 

French Moult is a VIRUS which affects young birds that are fledging causing deaths in very young birds or feather loss in older babies (mild to severe). FM is not passed down genetically it is shed from an ALREADY INFECTED bird in poo, feather dust, blood and body fluid. It is highly contagious especially in a flock that has had no prior exposure. Most breeders will see a big run of it every 5-7 years - unless you have a completely closed flock of course. Due to the fact that most of your birds that have been affected and developed some for of immunity are moved on at those ages and the flock becomes more susceptable.

 

The BIG UNKNOWN is which birds stay shedding virus into the environment - is it those completely flightless birds or do fully recovered birds also still shed. I have babies that have lost flights and tails only to completely grow them back. If I sold them you would not know they had been affected at all.

 

Anyway GB, these birds could even have old wing injuries. I also get the occasional busted wing and these birds so long as they can eat and drink okay have always bred okay for me.

Edited July 12, 200915 yr by nubbly5

they were brought down for me to look at and have been sitting idol for some months in wait i was under the impreshion the birds were no longer for offer but the breeder was waiting on me to veiw them so wires were crossed wrong leaving birds caged in small sale cage for some time now

 

 

I think it will be as simple as the fact that they have been cooped up in a small sale cage for some time, you mentioned some months!!

 

I think they will be fine with some encouragement, ie force them to fly for food etc. Start small and work up. I reckon they're just out of condition! :hug:

I agree SJW

 

Good luck GB

well today the boys are still alone

i decided not to place anybirds with them after all

when i went out to cheak them and open shed for air the one that flew low to grown about a meter flew up in fright about a foot in air

this is promiseing

sjw when you say incorage them with food and water do u mean place it up a little above their heads

im frightened if i do that they may just not eat at all

they seem not to be eatting much due to new inviroment anyway so not sure i should do that as yet but may try it later date

what could i get them vitamin wize to help build their condition up a bit after all they molting now and mabe the will come good once they finish still growing pin feathers in head and new tail comming in

what could i get them vitamin wize to help build their condition up a bit after all they molting now and mabe the will come good once they finish still growing pin feathers in head and new tail comming in

 

Moulting aid is good. Soluvet is also good.

what could i get them vitamin wize to help build their condition up a bit after all they molting now and mabe the will come good once they finish still growing pin feathers in head and new tail comming in

 

Moulting aid is good. Soluvet is also good.

 

thanks kaz i take it i can just grab that at pet shop or if not the vet cheers

i may try that after all if im going to try show birds that may just help